Bernie: Real Socialism Has Never Been Tried

[Dexter]

Global National - Canada has longest emergency room wait time according to study

Since Canada is so terrible and the general public doesn't seem to realize it maybe we should consider doing it Scandinavian style instead, or maybe like the Germans. Got any propaganda loaded for their healthcare systems? Maybe Bernie could be talked into doing it like one of the other every single nations of Earth that has a national healthcare system. Or maybe all of those people are just wrong about how much they like their healthcare system compared to people in the U.S.

[Hoodat]

A True Tale of Canadian Health Care: Why some patients need to go to the U.S. for surgery


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

[Hoodat]

Since Canada is so terrible and the general public doesn't seem to realize it maybe we should consider doing it Scandinavian style instead, or maybe like the Germans.

But that's not what Bernie Sanders is proposing.

[Dexter]

But that's not what Bernie Sanders is proposing.

That's what I am proposing. As I mentioned three times I don't take any of his words as gospel anyway. I just don't think he's a bad person.

So how about it Hoodat?

What about Scandinavia? And what about the rest of my post?

If you're on board with doing in Scandinavian style I'm sure Bernie can be reasoned with.

[Cyber Liberty]

That's what I am proposing.

So how about it Hoodat?

What about Scandinavia? And what about the rest of my post?

If you're on board with doing in Scandinavian style I'm sure Bernie can be reasoned with.

That's enough, Dexter.  Nobody here is buying your shit, you know it and that makes you a troll now.

[Hoodat]

I'll take "anecdote" for $1000 Alex!

Got any more anecdotes from agenda driven Youtube channels?

These anecdotes (from Canadians) directly contradict your bogus "public approval" claim.  Now, about those statistics you claim to have.  When do we get to see them?

[Dexter]

That's enough, Dexter.  Nobody here is buying your shit, you know it and that makes you a troll now.

To be clear you're now telling me to stop making my arguments because you think I'm trolling? If that's how this place runs now you can go ahead and ban me. I am posting in one thread and people are choosing to engage with my opinion. I have been civil. Your statement and tone are uncalled for.

[Dexter]

These anecdotes (from Canadians) directly contradict your bogus "public approval" claim.

No they don't. The fact that you would even say an anecdote contradicts actual statistics demonstrates that you have no idea how this works.

I would like to move past Canadian healthcare and Bernie's healthcare plan now. You can think you won if you want.

I want to talk about Europe now.

Game?

[Cyber Liberty]

To be clear you're now telling me to stop making my arguments because you think I'm trolling? If that's how this place runs now you can go ahead and ban me.

You made your arguments.  When you reach 15 times of telling, it's trolling.  And you are not worth the spit of banning at this time.  Promise you will go away if I do ban?

[truth_seeker]

All you have are anecdotes, which are worth nothing.

Please cite the other countries you have lived in, paid taxes in, used the health care system in.

I wrote a graduate economics paper, comparing the post WWII-economies of Communist East Germany, to Free-enterprise West Germany. (After living in West Germany). which of course was vastly superior.  I note, at that time your bbeloved communist East Germany gunned down people trying to escape their "workers' paradise.

That is hardly a worthless anecdote.

Your personal experience is? Do you wash your Che Guevarra shirt, after each wearing?

[Dexter]

You made your arguments.  When you reach 15 times of telling, it's trolling.  And you are not worth the spit of banning at this time. 

People argue their points into redundant oblivion on the regular. I am doing so cordially and I am keeping it in one thread. I am accusing you of having the position you do simply because you don't like what I am saying.

Promise you will go away if I do ban?

Once upon a time my presence here was respected and even approved of by a lot of posters, admin included. I don't know what kind of person you think I am, but all you really have to do is ask if you don't want me here anymore. I come here to argue with you because I disagree with you and sometimes I like barking at the moon. I don't argue with stupid people; that's why I like this place. If all of that is no longer tolerable to you and the people of this forum then I'll stop posting.

[Hoodat]

That's what I am proposing.

Uh, no.  You came here proposing we do what Bernie Sanders wanted to do.  First, how about an acknowledgement from you admitting that you were wrong about Sanders and do not support what he wants to do?  (e.g. single payer, outlawing private insurance, putting everyone on Medicare, etc.)

As I mentioned three times I don't take any of his words as gospel anyway.

This is the part I struggle with.  Bernie Sanders was asked point blank on Twitter if he was going to do away with private insurance.  And with the private luxury to formulate a response in his own time, he blurts out 'Hell Yes!'.  Yet you continue to excuse it by saying, 'Aw shucks, I'm sure he really didn't mean it', even though he triple-downed on it.  What this tells me is that 'truth' really doesn't matter to you.  You have a desire for Bernie to be right, even if that means ignoring who Bernie really is.

So how about it Hoodat?

What about Scandinavia? And what about the rest of my post?

Sorry, can't get on board with any system that takes my freedom away.  My position remains unchanged.  Get government the hell out of the health care industry.

If you're on board with doing in Scandinavian style I'm sure Bernie can be reasoned with.

You clearly do not understand how totalitarians operate.  He has had his entire life to study Scandinavian-style healthcare, yet he soundly rejects it.  He prefers the Canadian system, with the exception of outlawing private insurance.  (Of course he and his fellow politburo members will have their own special system for themselves).

[Hoodat]

No they don't. The fact that you would even say an anecdote contradicts actual statistics demonstrates that you have no idea how this works.

Are you talking about the statistics that you have failed to provide?  Those statistics?

[Dexter]

That is hardly a worthless anecdote.

All anecdotes are kind of worthless if we're having a discussion about statistics and averages.

Your personal experience is?

My personal experience is also a worthless anecdote.

[Dexter]

Sorry, can't get on board with any system that takes my freedom away.  My position remains unchanged.  Get government the hell out of the health care industry.

Will you at least throw me a bone and admit that you just don't care about the fact that countries with national healthcare systems are much happier with their healthcare on average? I'll concede everything else if you just admit that.

[Cyber Liberty]

OK, enough.  Locked.

[truth_seeker]

All anecdotes are kind of worthless if we're having a discussion about statistics and averages.

Statiscially the average person has one tit, and one testicle.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Once upon a time my presence here was respected and even approved of by a lot of posters

Still is @Dexter

[roamer_1]

So what do we do with the healthcare staff that’s already paid a lot for school and still have a lot of student loans?

It would seem to be their turn in the barrel.

[roamer_1]

Since Canada is so terrible and the general public doesn't seem to realize it maybe we should consider doing it Scandinavian style instead, or maybe like the Germans. Got any propaganda loaded for their healthcare systems? Maybe Bernie could be talked into doing it like one of the other every single nations of Earth that has a national healthcare system. Or maybe all of those people are just wrong about how much they like their healthcare system compared to people in the U.S.

None of the above. The federal government has no business in healthcare at all. It is unconstitutional.
Let the states respectively figure out what they want to do... That s the beauty of the American way.

That which works best would be copied where it will work also, and where it won't work other states will do otherwise. No need for one-size-fits-all (which is the first damn lie) federally imposed solutions.
Government is never the answer.

[Dexter]

Let the states respectively figure out what they want to do... That s the beauty of the American way.

I like it when we can agree on things. I'll deviate from typical "socialists" now with my opinion that we should be kicking in the kneecaps of the federal government and giving everything back to the states. The United States has approximately the same population and land mass of all of western Europe. That's way too many people separated by way too much space and culture to have one umbrella calling shots for everybody. You might be surprised by the extremes I would go to in this conversation. States should operate like they are their own countries. If that happened and states could truly do things their own way, the free market of ideas would show us what can work and what can't. If one state is kicking ass while others are really struggling people will want to emulate the one that's doing well. Right now we're all just stepping all over each other and nothing gets done. Everybody is frustrated.

[roamer_1]

I like it when we can agree on things. I'll deviate from typical "socialists" now with my opinion that we should be kicking in the kneecaps of the federal government and giving everything back to the states. The United States has approximately the same population and land mass of all of western Europe. That's way too many people separated by way too much space and culture to have one umbrella calling shots for everybody. You might be surprised by the extremes I would go to in this conversation. States should operate like they are their own countries. If that happened and states could truly do things their own way, the free market of ideas would show us what can work and what can't. If one state is kicking ass while others are really struggling people will want to emulate the one that's doing well. Right now we're all just stepping all over each other and nothing gets done. Everybody is frustrated.

BRAVO! 

The way there is not through nationalizing 1/7th of the American economy. You get one or the other.

[Dexter]

BRAVO! 

The way there is not through nationalizing 1/7th of the American economy. You get one or the other.

There's a problem though Roamer...

I'm trying to work within the reality that exists when I float the idea that maybe some kind of national healthcare system would be tolerable and make things better.

Uncle Sam isn't going to give that power back. Of course it would be best that way, but can we really get there? For example do any of you really think Texas could secede from the union? Uncle Sam would start murdering people by the millions if necessary. We are trapped. I sometimes show support for nationalism because I see globalism as the biggest enemy, but in truth if we won that fight I'd start fighting nation power with state power, and then state power with county power. I hate the government as much as or more than any of you. They won though. They have really big guns and they're not afraid to use them. What do we do? Voting helps but ultimately it's an illusion in the sense that there's no freaking way the fed will let go of power peacefully.

[catfish1957]

I'm trying to work within the reality that exists when I float the idea that maybe some kind of national healthcare system would be tolerable and make things better.

Dexter, you seem like a passionate young man for your issue, but the crust of the whole problem is that we conservatives, and those who saved, skimped, and invested for a rainy day are getting sick and tired of subsidizing the entitlement class. 

It's bad enough we have to fund the slugs who have their lips hermetically sealed on the left hind teat of Uncle Sugar.  Now those same entitlement slugs and their socialist enablers want to invoke their will on what is most important of all.....   Our health and the health of our loved ones.  I have what Obama called a Cadillac Health Plan, because of the seiousness  of what is important (above) and protection of what I have saved.  When POS  socialist want to take that away, you can see why some of us get pretty upset when we hear misguided views like yours.

[LMAO]

Let the states respectively figure out what they want to do... That s the beauty of the American way

 I agree

 If Vermont wants a universal healthcare plan, then let them have it. However, states have tried and found out that their citizens either rejected it or they simply couldn’t afford it. Even Mr Sanders has no way to pay for his plan