Author Topic: Bernie: Real Socialism Has Never Been Tried (Read 19379 times)

Hoodat · « **Reply #375 on:** March 12, 2020, 11:53:13 pm »

Quote from: GtHawk on March 12, 2020, 10:50:25 pm

If that's true why was Social Security sending me annual updates telling me how much money I had coming to me?

Just trying to calm the masses to keep the ponzi scheme going. It doesn't require that much math to see where the program will be twenty years from now. There will be only two workers to pay the benefits for each retiree. And that is mathematically impossible. In other words, the same government that has lied to you for the past half century about the Social Security Trust Fund is the same government sending you those updates.

Bigun · « **Reply #376 on:** March 13, 2020, 12:00:27 am »

Quote from: Hoodat on March 12, 2020, 11:49:42 pm

Thirty percent of your claim is already going to the Free Sh*t Army. Only 70% of people collecting Social Security are beyond retirement age. You can feel justified to it because you 'paid in'. But the fact of the matter is that Social Security tax is just a tax like all other taxes that gets spent the second it arrives in the Treasury. It is 12.5% of your income. And the money you collect comes from the same Treasury that everyone else is paying into, just like food stamps, WIC, AFDC, EITC, etc.

Sad but true! They put Bernie Madof in prison for doing the exact same thing the government has been doing since 1935!

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #377 on:** March 13, 2020, 12:03:22 am »

Quote from: Hoodat on March 12, 2020, 11:53:13 pm

Just trying to calm the masses to keep the ponzi scheme going. It doesn't require that much math to see where the program will be twenty years from now. There will be only two workers to pay the benefits for each retiree. And that is mathematically impossible. In other words, the same government that has lied to you for the past half century about the Social Security Trust Fund is the same government sending you those updates.

Just imagine a workforce paying in, the size of those shredded since Roe...

Dexter · « **Reply #378 on:** March 13, 2020, 12:56:57 am »

Quote from: musiclady on March 12, 2020, 02:37:11 pm

People die in Canada waiting for life-saving surgeries.

You think that doesn't happen here? Do you have any idea how many people suffer and/or die due to not being able to afford preventative care before something turned into a disaster? There are mountains of horror stories about our healthcare system. Having a public option you have to wait for is better than having no option at all because you can't afford one.

Canada has ERs too, and it is also illegal to deny emergency care. The treatable things people are dying of kill people here too because they weren't able to afford it.

EdinVA · « **Reply #379 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:01:40 am »

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 12:56:57 am

You think that doesn't happen here? Do you have any idea how many people suffer and/or die due to not being able to afford preventative care before something turned into a disaster? There are mountains of horror stories about our healthcare system. The fact remains though that if those people in Canada could have afforded it they would have gotten private care. Having a public option you have to wait for is better than having no option at all because you can't afford one.

Canada has ERs too, and it is also illegal to deny emergency care. The treatable things people are dying of would have killed them here too because they wouldn't have been able to afford it.

@Dexter
But Dex, the idea is to do better, not just swap one problem for another.

Dexter · « **Reply #380 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:03:00 am »

Quote from: EdinVA on March 13, 2020, 01:01:40 am

@Dexter
But Dex, the idea is to do better, not just swap one problem for another.

We have one of the lowest public approvals of healthcare in the world. In Scandinavian nations it is over 90%. Are you going to tell me they're just ignorant of how bad they actually have it compared to us?

Hoodat · « **Reply #381 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:05:13 am »

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 12:56:57 am

You think that doesn't happen here?

No.

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 12:56:57 am

Do you have any idea how many people suffer and/or die due to not being able to afford preventative care before something turned into a disaster?

Zero.

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 12:56:57 am

There are mountains of horror stories about our healthcare system.

Give me five of them.

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 12:56:57 am

The fact remains though that if those people in Canada could have afforded it they would have gotten private care.

It's hard to pay for private care when you are already paying (at the point of a gun) for the government system. The point which you are acknowledging is that there are shortcomings with the government system that can only be addressed through another means. Of course Bernie Sanders opposes that second option.

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 12:56:57 am

Having a public option you have to wait for is better than having no option at all because you can't afford one.

But this isn't the case. (See: False dilemma)

Hoodat · « **Reply #382 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:07:00 am »

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 01:03:00 am

We have one of the lowest public approvals of healthcare in the world. In Scandinavian nations it is over 90%.

Bernie Sanders does not support Scandinavian health care. We established that fact already. Why do you keep bringing up Scandinavia?

EdinVA · « **Reply #383 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:07:05 am »

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 01:03:00 am

We have one of the lowest public approvals of healthcare in the world. In Scandinavian nations it is over 90%. Are you going to tell me they're just ignorant of how bad they actually have it compared to us?

@Dexter
I don't care what other countries do, and I could care less what their opinion of us is.... I really don't think a lot of them either.

Dexter · « **Reply #384 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:07:37 am »

Quote from: musiclady on March 12, 2020, 02:33:46 pm

No matter what Dex claims, health care declines when the government takes over.

Rates of public approval and general health of the public seem to indicate otherwise. Y'all can bark and bark about how bad it is in a country you don't actually live in, but maybe you should look at the general views of the people that actually do live there. Public approval is much higher elsewhere because on average they are getting a much better deal. It works better for more people and there are statistics to back that up.

All you have are anecdotes, which are worth nothing.

LMAO · « **Reply #385 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:13:12 am »

The USSR used to put out the same stats....

musiclady · « **Reply #386 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:15:33 am »

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 01:07:37 am

Rates of public approval and general health of the public seem to indicate otherwise. Y'all can bark and bark about how bad it is in a country you don't actually live in, but maybe you should look at the general views of the people that actually do live there. Public approval is much higher elsewhere because on average they are getting a much better deal. It works better for more people and there are statistics to back that up.

All you have are anecdotes, which are worth nothing.

Socialist propaganda is far worse......

But you do it so well!

Dexter · « **Reply #387 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:16:22 am »

Quote from: Hoodat on March 13, 2020, 01:05:13 am

Zero.

Who is trolling now?

Quote from: Hoodat on March 13, 2020, 01:05:13 am

Give me five of them.

Right wing media outlets won't show stuff like that because it's against their interests. You won't accept information from anywhere else as legitimate.

Quote from: Hoodat on March 13, 2020, 01:07:00 am

Bernie Sanders does not support Scandinavian health care. We established that fact already. Why do you keep bringing up Scandinavia?

So you'd be in favor of Scandinavian style healthcare if Bernie went for that instead? I'm sure Bernie would be about it if right wingers were actually open minded to it, but we both know you're just playing games right now and would never even entertain the thought.

Oh, by the way, public approval of healthcare in Canada may not be 90% or more but it is still way higher than it is in the U.S.

Dexter · « **Reply #388 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:17:52 am »

Quote from: LMAO on March 13, 2020, 01:13:12 am

The USSR used to put out the same stats....

We're comparing Canada, Germany, Scandinavia etc to the USSR?

Dexter · « **Reply #389 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:19:05 am »

Quote from: EdinVA on March 13, 2020, 01:07:05 am

@Dexter
I don't care what other countries do, and I could care less what their opinion of us is.... I really don't think a lot of them either.

It's not about their opinion of us. It's about their opinion of their own healthcare system. People there love their healthcare by comparison. I wonder why that is.

If you went to any of those nations and floated the idea of American style healthcare you would be laughed out of the room.

EdinVA · « **Reply #390 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:20:18 am »

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 01:19:05 am

It's not about their opinion of us. It's about their opinion of their own healthcare system. People there love their healthcare by comparison. I wonder why that is.

Don't care. I don't run other peoples lives, that is what socialists do.

Dexter · « **Reply #391 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:21:38 am »

Quote from: musiclady on March 13, 2020, 01:15:33 am

Socialist propaganda is far worse......

But you do it so well!

I don't have anything constructive to say in response because you didn't actually address my argument.

Dexter · « **Reply #392 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:22:23 am »

Quote from: EdinVA on March 13, 2020, 01:20:18 am

Don't care.

Obviously...

Hoodat · « **Reply #393 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:22:24 am »

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 01:07:37 am

Rates of public approval and general health of the public seem to indicate otherwise

No, they do not.

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 01:07:37 am

Y'all can bark and bark about how bad it is in a country you don't actually live in

Don't need to. I can listen to real live Canadians complain about how bad their healthcare system is.

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Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 01:07:37 am

but maybe you should look at the general views of the people that actually do live there.

I will make a deal with you then. Let Canadians keep their healthcare system, and leave us alone to choose ours. If you like waiting 10 months to get an MRI, then move to Canada. I prefer the option of getting one the same day I request one.

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 01:07:37 am

Public approval is much higher elsewhere because on average they are getting a much better deal.

Uh, no. It isn't a better deal. For me, I really don't want to be forced to pay into a system (at the point of a gun) that I won't be able to use when I need it. If I ever need an MRI, I would much prefer to pay out of pocket and get one that same day than to wait by the phone for 10 months hoping the one MRI clinic 500 miles away will call. Because in 10 months, the MRI will no longer matter.

If Bernie Sanders had had his recent heart attack in Canada, he would be dead right now.

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 01:07:37 am

It works better for more people and there are statistics to back that up.

Again, no. Statistics do not back that up. But if you really want statistics, then count the number of Canadian license plates you see at Seattle, Detroit, and Buffalo hospitals and tell me which system those people prefer.

Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 01:07:37 am

All you have are anecdotes, which are worth nothing.

All you have is wishful thinking. Heck, when we provide you Bernie Sanders own words, statements, responses, and policies. You continue to insist that he really didn't mean it.

But if you really prefer a government-run monopoly over a free market, then by all means move to Canada.

Hoodat · « **Reply #394 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:26:37 am »

The Truth About Canadian Healthcare (from a Canadian)

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Dexter · « **Reply #395 on:** March 13, 2020, 01:27:28 am »

Quote from: Hoodat on March 13, 2020, 01:22:24 am

No, they do not.

There's nothing to say other than that you're ignorant.

Sorry...

Quote from: Hoodat on March 13, 2020, 01:22:24 am

Don't need to. I can listen to real live Canadians complain about how bad their healthcare system is.

You can listen to real live anecdotes on Youtube?! Do you understand what an anecdote is? Do you understand the difference between that and actual statistics?

Quote from: Hoodat on March 13, 2020, 01:22:24 am