Here's Why It's a Good Thing the US Military is Getting Rid of the M14

[rangerrebew]

Here's Why It's a Good Thing the US Military is Getting Rid of the M14

13 Feb 2020
We Are The Mighty | By Jim Grant

The M14 is one of the worst DMRs in history, and should have never been adopted by the military.

That's a powerful statement, but a mostly objective one.

While the M14's design originated from what General Patton dubbed "The greatest battle implement ever devised" — the M1 Garand — by the 1950s it was already outdated. Military small arms development had seen unparalleled growth throughout World War II and this growth continued into the Cold War.

https://www.military.com/off-duty/2020/02/13/heres-why-its-good-thing-us-military-getting-rid-m14.html

[sneakypete]

Here's Why It's a Good Thing the US Military is Getting Rid of the M14

13 Feb 2020
We Are The Mighty | By Jim Grant

The M14 is one of the worst DMRs in history, and should have never been adopted by the military.

That's a powerful statement, but a mostly objective one.

While the M14's design originated from what General Patton dubbed "The greatest battle implement ever devised" — the M1 Garand — by the 1950s it was already outdated. Military small arms development had seen unparalleled growth throughout World War II and this growth continued into the Cold War.

https://www.military.com/off-duty/2020/02/13/heres-why-its-good-thing-us-military-getting-rid-m14.html

Uhhh,call me Captain Obvious,but the military pretty much got rid of the M-14 around 1968.

[PeteS in CA]

Actually, a variant, the M-14 EBR, came into use in 2002.

Contrary to what the article implied, the M-14 was selective fire, while the M-1 is semi-automatic. The supposed problems with the M-14 - I cannot speak from experience - were that it was long and heavy, and difficult to control in full-automatic. Some who used it, however, love(d) it.

[Bigun]

Uhhh,call me Captain Obvious,but the military pretty much got rid of the M-14 around 1968 as the standard-issue infantry weapon.

I fixed it for you @sneakypete

The M-14 is still in the inventory and still used I do believe.

[skeeter]

Uhhh,call me Captain Obvious,but the military pretty much got rid of the M-14 around 1968.

Its still the military's 'Designated Marskman Rifle'.

[sneakypete]

Actually, a variant, the M-14 EBR, came into use in 2002.

Contrary to what the article implied, the M-14 was selective fire, while the M-1 is semi-automatic.

@PeteS in CA

True,but with the addition of a selector switch,the M-1 Carbine became the selective fire M-2 Carbine.

The supposed problems with the M-14 - I cannot speak from experience - were that it was long and heavy, and difficult to control in full-automatic.

The problem is it was designed by committee to be something for all purposes. The "idea" was to replace both the Garand AND the BAR with one rifle that would fit both roles. Yeah,really.

 Without the selector switch it was merely a 30 caliber semi-auto main battle rifle of slightly less power than the Garand/BAR to be issued to the typical infantryman with very little shooting experience,and with the selector switch,it was to be issed to the squad leader,who was assumed to have more experience as well as better judgment.

Given that the army is ALWAYS re-fighting the most recent war in the future,it was designed for the open battlefields of Europe,NOT the thick jungles of Asia,where in many circumstances you couldn't see more than a few feet.. Too long,too heavy,too cumbersome,and frankly,too powerful for some bozo from the Bronx to shoot that had never even held a gun 6 months before being drafted. It also turned out to be more likely they would ALL be issued with selector switches so the inexperienced troops could just shoot down the jungle,quickly running out of ammo and not hitting a damn thing BUT the jungle.

By 1968 it was no longer issued to infantry units in VN,only support units that didn't really need rifles to start with.

Giving SOME officers credit,they saw this problem developing BEFORE it became a problem,and they put their careers on the line to get the army to procure a lighter,shorter,carbine of smaller caliber that would allow the troops to carry more ammo,and the AR-15 was the rifle they picked to replace the M-14. I don't know for sure when they became standard issue (if there is such a thing) for SF troops,but I know I had to qualify with a selective fire AR-15 in 1964. I guess it took a couple of years to tool up and get the production line going,and it was standard issue to the infantry by 1968,maybe earlier.,with some modifications,making it the M16.

The US Army never really had much mechanical trouble with it,but the USMC hated it at first and blamed it on the deaths of many Marines in early battles. The fault was with the USMC mindset,not the rifle. Apparantely you can tell Gunny Sgt's anything,but you can't make them listen.

IIRC,the problems were due to the USMC,always the poor step-children of the USN,were using both the wrong oil,and too much of it. They had all that oil and grease in stock for 03 Springfields,BAR's,Garands,and wanted to use it  before spending money on new oils.  They also used too much oil because if there is one thing that will make a Gunny stroke out,it is the POSSIBILITY of a speck of rust on a firearm. Too much of the wrong oil mixed with the modern powder residue and the tighter clearances of the M-16 resulted in jams.

Supply officers are supply officers,regardless of the organization,and it is their nature to not spend money on new oil when they have plenty of old oil,just sitting around in bulk. It is the same to a certain extent with unit commanders. Almost no one from either group is or ever was a weapons specialist,and in most cases only carried handguns when they had to carry a weapon,so they just didn't know any better,and no one seems to have informed them.

SOMEBODY,somewhere along the way,dropped the ball on that one,and young Marines died because of it.

FWIW,I believe they learned a lesson from this,and took measures to make sure something similar hasn't happened since.

Some who used it, however, love(d) it.

At times,having a 30 caliber MG handy was a HUGE bonus. I had a friend named Kinnear that carried one he had cut down to carbine length by cutting most of the buttstock off,and then shortening the barrel down close to the gas tube. Most DEFINITELY against regulations in any military unit you might name,but it worked for him. Then again,he looked like a redheaded,blueyed Highland Scot that just stepped out of the Middle Ages,and with the 30 cal he had no trouble chopping through brush with it when necessary. His team was surrounded and being overran one day right at dusk,but the Bright Light rescue team decided to go in anyhow because everybody on his team was wounded,even him,and he was the only one still mobile enough to run around the perimeter and apply repressive fire. I knew all the guys on that Bright Light Team,and was told after it was all over that at first they were worried about being able to locate the team in the dark,and every time Kinnear pulled the trigger on that 30 cal,it lit up the jungle.

He survived VN and got out of the army,but a couple of years later he was found beaten to death in an alley in Hong Kong. Given that besides weighing more than 200 lbs and still looking skinny,he was also a black belt in Shorin Ryu and not even the tiniest bit reluctant to get serious,that was no normal mugging. He left behind a wife and small child on Okinawa.