Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital

[Hoodat]

Both the above sources tell the truth of the matter.  Since Biden's name is attached to the US efforts to remove this corrupt prosecutor, some here refuse to accept the truth.

@Victoria33

The part that has been pointed out to you several times already (and which you continue to ignore) is that Shokin was replaced by a man who had earlier served three years in prison for embezzlement and abuse of office.  In other words, it wasn't that Shokin was corrupt.  He just wasn't corrupt for the right people.

[Hoodat]

No, this bs can no longer stand @Victoria33  Pam Bondi presented the facts .... not you.

Pam Bondi nailed it.  She was quite impressive.  She could be a future governor of Florida.

[catfish1957]

@Victoria33

The part that has been pointed out to you several times already (and which you continue to ignore) is that Shokin was replaced by a man who had earlier served three years in prison for embezzlement and abuse of office.  In other words, it wasn't that Shokin was corrupt.  He just wasn't corrupt for the right people.

She might be the only person I know here who seems to be able to de-ccouple the Bidens from this mess.  I just decided to step away.

[Chosen Daughter]

@Chosen Daughter

The part that has been pointed out to you several times already (and which you continue to ignore) is that Shokin was replaced by a man who had earlier served three years in prison for embezzlement and abuse of office.  In other words, it wasn't that Shokin was corrupt.  He just wasn't corrupt for the right people.

Could very well be,  but Shokin was corrupt.  Had you read the links instead of ignoring them you would have seen.

https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190

So if Ukraine replaced a corrupt AG with another corrupt AG that is what they did.

BTW where is Paul Manafort?

And who are Les Parnas and Igor Fruman?

[Hoodat]

Could very well be,  but Shokin was corrupt.  Had you read the links instead of ignoring them you would have seen.

I never disputed that Shokin was corrupt.  I simply pointed out that he was replaced by another corrupt prosecutor.  Hence Biden holds no moral high ground here for ridding Ukraine of a corrupt prosecutor because Ukraine still ended up with a corrupt prosecutor.  In this case, a corrupt prosecutor who refused to prosecute corruption at Burisma, which by the way is exactly the type of corruption that Joe Biden wanted.

[Cyber Liberty]

I never disputed that Shokin was corrupt.  I simply pointed out that he was replaced by another corrupt prosecutor.  Hence Biden holds no moral high ground here for ridding Ukraine of a corrupt prosecutor because Ukraine still ended up with a corrupt prosecutor.  In this case, a corrupt prosecutor who refused to prosecute corruption at Burisma, which by the way is exactly the type of corruption that Joe Biden wanted.

Stop using logic and stuff.  It's making sense.   

[Chosen Daughter]

I never disputed that Shokin was corrupt.  I simply pointed out that he was replaced by another corrupt prosecutor.  Hence Biden holds no moral high ground here for ridding Ukraine of a corrupt prosecutor because Ukraine still ended up with a corrupt prosecutor.  In this case, a corrupt prosecutor who refused to prosecute corruption at Burisma, which by the way is exactly the type of corruption that Joe Biden wanted.

Isn't it more like neither one of them investigated? 

It seems like Trump asking the new Ukrainian president to investigate was like asking the Kremlin to investigate Russian crime.

The reason that I brought up Manafort.

How Paul Manafort Helped Elect Russia's Man in Ukraine

excerpt:

But that’s not how U.S. diplomats saw it at the time. A U.S. embassy cable sent from Kiev to Washington in 2006 described Manafort’s job as giving an “extreme makeover” to a presidential hopeful named Viktor Yanukovych, who had the backing of the Kremlin and most of Ukraine’s wealthiest tycoons. His Party of Regions, the cable said, was “a haven” for “mobsters and oligarchs.”

https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/

Perfect, just perfect.  BTW Trump said in post acquittal presser he has always been a politician and I believe him.  Even though he never bothered to register to vote in an American election until 1987.


A timeline of Paul Manafort's relationship with Donald Trump

They've known each other since the 1980's

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/a-timeline-of-paul-manaforts-relationship-with-the-trump-world.html

It really is no surprise that Giuliani was working very hard with those criminals to make a case for Trump.

[Chosen Daughter]

Oh, but wait.  Perhaps the reason we are all so confused.  The players are the same.  Run in the same circles.  Use the same lobbying firms and make their millions from shady Kremlin associates.  Oh gosh, its Hillary.  No wonder Trump said she had suffered enough.  Or that he was honored by her presence at the Inauguration breakfast.


Clinton ally resigns as firm cited in Manafort indictment

https://www.wnd.com/2017/10/clinton-ally-resigns-as-firm-cited-in-manafort-indictment/

The indictment, the Daily Caller was first to report, states Manafort and associate Paul Gates – both of whom were charged with tax evasion and other crimes – chose two companies, dubbed Company A and Company B, to engage in "a multi-million dollar lobbying campaign in the United States at the direction of [former Ukrainian President Victor] Yanukovych, the Party of Regions, and the government of Ukraine" from 2006 to 2014. NBC News previously reported, citing sources close to the investigation, that Mueller's probe had expanded to the Podesta Group. The other lobby group in the indictment is reported to be Mercury LLC.

[Hoodat]

Isn't it more like neither one of them investigated? 

Non-sequitur.  Doesn't change the fact that the argument about replacing Shokin as an anti-corruption measure is completely without merit.

It seems like Trump asking the new Ukrainian president to investigate was like asking the Kremlin to investigate Russian crime.

Trump never asked Zelensky to investigate anything.  He simply asked for answers about Crowdstrike (pertaining to the 2016 election) and about why Shokin was fired.  At no point did Trump ask Zelensky to investigate the Bidens.

The reason that I brought up Manafort.

You brought up Manafort to divert away from the realization that your defense of Biden has zero merit.

How Paul Manafort Helped Elect Russia's Man in Ukraine

excerpt:

But that’s not how U.S. diplomats saw it at the time. A U.S. embassy cable sent from Kiev to Washington in 2006 described Manafort’s job as giving an “extreme makeover” to a presidential hopeful named Viktor Yanukovych, who had the backing of the Kremlin and most of Ukraine’s wealthiest tycoons. His Party of Regions, the cable said, was “a haven” for “mobsters and oligarchs.”

https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/

Perfect, just perfect.  BTW Trump said in post acquittal presser he has always been a politician and I believe him.  Even though he never bothered to register to vote in an American election until 1987.

That's really beautiful and all.  Except it has absolutely ZERO to do with Trump and his phone call.  You do realize that Zelenskyy is President of Ukraine and not Yanukovych, right?  And you also realize that Trump's ties with Paul Manafort were permanently severed before Trump even became President, right?  So your tactic of slinging mud and hoping something sticks is not something that is tolerated on a Conservative forum, primarily because it is made up of people who are able to reason and think critically.  In other words, bringing up Manafort's name is a huge red flag that let's everyone know that you aren't able to come up with anything credible against Trump.

I can accept anyone taking issue with Trump for things he has actually done.  He's divorced twice, engaged in infidelity, went through several bankruptcies, has fallen short of a few campaign promises, and doesn't always take Conservative positions.  I get it.  These are all valid concerns of various degrees of importance to anyone.  But I absolutely positively will not allow non-rational Democrat talking points being recited here to go unchallenged.  So each time you come up with this 'the reason Biden got the prosecutor fired was to fight corruption' bullshit, I am going to challenge you on it.  Because to me TRUTH matters.  And I will never ever ever sacrifice TRUTH in order to push a political agenda.  Capisce?

[Chosen Daughter]

Non-sequitur.  Doesn't change the fact that the argument about replacing Shokin as an anti-corruption measure is completely without merit.


Trump never asked Zelensky to investigate anything.  He simply asked for answers about Crowdstrike (pertaining to the 2016 election) and about why Shokin was fired.  At no point did Trump ask Zelensky to investigate the Bidens.


You brought up Manafort to divert away from the realization that your defense of Biden has zero merit.


That's really beautiful and all.  Except it has absolutely ZERO to do with Trump and his phone call.  You do realize that Zelenskyy is President of Ukraine and not Yanukovych, right?  And you also realize that Trump's ties with Paul Manafort were permanently severed before Trump even became President, right?  So your tactic of slinging mud and hoping something sticks is not something that is tolerated on a Conservative forum, primarily because it is made up of people who are able to reason and think critically.  In other words, bringing up Manafort's name is a huge red flag that let's everyone know that you aren't able to come up with anything credible against Trump.

I can accept anyone taking issue with Trump for things he has actually done.  He's divorced twice, engaged in infidelity, went through several bankruptcies, has fallen short of a few campaign promises, and doesn't always take Conservative positions.  I get it.  These are all valid concerns of various degrees of importance to anyone.  But I absolutely positively will not allow non-rational Democrat talking points being recited here to go unchallenged.  So each time you come up with this 'the reason Biden got the prosecutor fired was to fight corruption' bullshit, I am going to challenge you on it.  Because to me TRUTH matters.  And I will never ever ever sacrifice TRUTH in order to push a political agenda.  Capisce?

Oh, capisce!

What you want is to leave out the pesky details of how the swamp is DC.  And they swim in the same scum.  And all of us are just on a ride to defend one swamp critter over another.  Even though they are all involved in the same lobbying corruption that has made them associates to criminal enterprises.  In this case with Manafort, Ukraine.  And sshhhhh.  Don't bring that up.  And yes I do realize that Yanukovych is no longer president.

Trump is always bringing up Clinton and her emails.  But he is the one who said she suffered enough.  I always wondered why?  Why after all the "lock her up" mantra.  Well they have always been friends and have always had the same circle of associates.  Manafort was one. 


The Swamp Is D.C.

https://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/trump-clinton-manafort-podesta-are-all-part-of-the-swamp-ben-shapiro/

And Dershowitz also.  A liberal defending Trump.  Writing books.  The outcome was known from the beginning.  And I say and post all of this because we are all being played by politics.

[Chosen Daughter]

Oh, Biden and Obama too.

Manafort’s pro-Ukraine lobbying campaign reached Obama, Biden

By MARIANNE LEVINE 09/14/2018 01:24 PM EDT

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-ukraine-obama-biden-824747

See the connection?  Well in case you didn't its Manafort and Ukrainian lobbying.

[Hoodat]

Manafort, Manafort, Manafort!  Seriously, that is the best you've got?  The man was fired off over three years ago.  He has zero to do with the impeachment case.  And even more importantly, he has zero to do with your patently false statements about Biden's moral position on Shokin's firing.

So ask yourself.  Does TRUTH really matter to you?  Because if it does, then you would retract your statement.  But if it doesn't, then keep digging up mud from Paul Manfort's 2003, hoping somehow that it justifies removing Trump from office based on totally bogus and discredited articles of impeachment.


*  Personally, I am one of the biggest Manafort-haters out there.  (See: Ford '76)  But that dog has nothing to do with this impeachment.  So stop tossing his name out there to cover for your DNC talking points being exposed for the lies they are.

[truth_seeker]

Another episode from the "Scatter brain series.

I want Trump to be impeached.'

'I would accept socialism'

[Chosen Daughter]

Manafort, Manafort, Manafort!  Seriously, that is the best you've got?  The man was fired off over three years ago.  He has zero to do with the impeachment case.  And even more importantly, he has zero to do with your patently false statements about Biden's moral position on Shokin's firing.

So ask yourself.  Does TRUTH really matter to you?  Because if it does, then you would retract your statement.  But if it doesn't, then keep digging up mud from Paul Manfort's 2003, hoping somehow that it justifies removing Trump from office based on totally bogus and discredited articles of impeachment.


*  Personally, I am one of the biggest Manafort-haters out there.  (See: Ford '76)  But that dog has nothing to do with this impeachment.  So stop tossing his name out there to cover for your DNC talking points being exposed for the lies they are.

Yeah BS.  None of this would have happened if it didn't start with Manafort, Flynn and Mueller.  The reason nothing came to fruition is because members of both parties are neck deep in Ukraine with ties to Manafort.  If Trump didn't have ties to the same swamp this never would have happened to him.

And I will also say that Trump promoted himself as an outsider.  A non politicians but he has been connected for many years.  Its his own doing with his connections that has drawn him into his own mess.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Yeah BS.  None of this would have happened if it didn't start with Manafort, Flynn and Mueller.  The reason nothing came to fruition is because members of both parties are neck deep in Ukraine with ties to Manafort.  If Trump didn't have ties to the same swamp this never would have happened to him.

Oh, dear GOD!, buy a damn vowel, already ... educate yourself, woman.  Educate yourself! 

The ignorance in your posts is exhausting.

[Chosen Daughter]

Oh, dear GOD!, buy a damn vowel, already ... educate yourself, woman.  Educate yourself! 

The ignorance in your posts is exhausting.

I am.  Can't you tell.  Remember Dershowitz Trumps lawyer in his impeachment trial?

https://www.newsweek.com/paul-manafort-plea-deal-trump-1123038

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/406909-dershowitz-manafort-and-trump-acted-too-late-to-avoid-consequences

Maybe Trump will still pardon Manafort?

[Hoodat]

I am.  Can't you tell.  Remember Dershowitz Trumps lawyer in his impeachment trial?

https://www.newsweek.com/paul-manafort-plea-deal-trump-1123038

So two years after Trump fired Manafort (and almost a year before Trump spoke with Zelenskyy), Manafort struck a plea deal on matters that had absolutely ZERO to do with Donald Trump.  Again, so what?  What does this have to do with the FACT that your claim about Joe Biden getting Sorkin fired as an anti-corruption move is patently false?

[Chosen Daughter]

So two years after Trump fired Manafort (and almost a year before Trump spoke with Zelenskyy), Manafort struck a plea deal on matters that had absolutely ZERO to do with Donald Trump.  Again, so what?  What does this have to do with the FACT that your claim about Joe Biden getting Sorkin fired as an anti-corruption move is patently false?

What?  As far as I know Shokin was corrupt and deserved to be fired.  And Dershowitz was very concerned with Manafort and his plea deal concerning Trump.

[catfish1957]

Maybe Trump will still pardon Manafort?

Geez, I hope not. 

Manafort, Stone, and Pecker and their politico-thuggery need to be a distant memory. 

[Hoodat]

What?  As far as I know Shokin was corrupt and deserved to be fired.

And you also know that Shokin was replaced with another corrupt prosecutor - one that would be corrupt in Biden's favor.  Yet you intentionally ignore that Truth while defending Biden's actions - actions which involved the direct knowledgeable withholding of US funds until an action favorable to Biden was met.

And Dershowitz was very concerned with Manafort and his plea deal concerning Trump.

Which of course has ZERO to do with Trump's impeachment.  But then you knew that already.  btw, Dershowitz' concerns proved to be unfounded since Manafort's testimony couldn't be trusted.

Mueller says Manafort breached plea deal by lying

But then you knew that already too.  Yet here you are doubling and tripling down on things you know are either not relevant or just plain false.

[Hoodat]

Geez, I hope not. 

Manafort, Stone, and Pecker and their politico-thuggery need to be a distant memory.

They already are a distant memory, or at least they were before ChosenDaughter resurrected Manafort as a justification for removing Trump from office.

[Chosen Daughter]

And you also know that Shokin was replaced with another corrupt prosecutor - one that would be corrupt in Biden's favor.  Yet you intentionally ignore that Truth while defending Biden's actions - actions which involved the direct knowledgeable withholding of US funds until an action favorable to Biden was met.


Which of course has ZERO to do with Trump's impeachment.  But then you knew that already.  btw, Dershowitz' concerns proved to be unfounded since Manafort's testimony couldn't be trusted.

Mueller says Manafort breached plea deal by lying

But then you knew that already too.  Yet here you are doubling and tripling down on things you know are either not relevant or just plain false.

I am not defending Biden's actions.   I'm not defending Trump's either.  If he wanted to investigate corruption he should have done it through the Justice Department.  Not Giuliani.  But isn't that the issue?  Giuliani is also tied to criminals.  LOL!

I don't like Creepy Joe Biden.  I don't like Nancy Pelosi.  I don't like Hillary Clinton and she should have been locked up.  But wasn't because Trump said she suffered enough.

[Chosen Daughter]

They already are a distant memory, or at least they were before ChosenDaughter resurrected Manafort as a justification for removing Trump from office.

I don't think that the Democrats could have removed Trump from office because they have too many ties to Ukraine themselves. 

[Chosen Daughter]

They already are a distant memory, or at least they were before ChosenDaughter resurrected Manafort as a justification for removing Trump from office.

And I must point out that Trump mentioned how good the New York Post is to him in his post acquittal presser.  So, from the New York Post:

Rudy Giuliani consulted Paul Manafort to bolster his Ukraine theory
By Yaron Steinbuch
October 3, 2019 | 10:18am | Updated

https://nypost.com/2019/10/03/rudy-giuliani-consulted-paul-manafort-to-bolster-his-ukraine-theory/

I guess that Manafort wasn't a distant memory to Giuliani.  Interesting angle.  Probing the man Manafort campaign manager/criminal for Trump to prove that Democrats were tied to Ukraine?  Something tells me that Trump shouldn't have been friends with that guy all those years.

[sneakypete]

Oh, dear GOD!, buy a damn vowel, already ... educate yourself, woman.  Educate yourself! 

The ignorance in your posts is exhausting.

@Right_in_Virginia

You are wasting your time. I believe she is a group of DNC people posing as a Christian female conservative in an effort to weaken Trump and other Republican chances for re-election. The Dims are both desperate and evil,which pretty much defines THIS "Christian Daughter",who probably drinks Scotch and smokes cigars.