Author Topic: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion  (Read 79641 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2650 on: March 20, 2020, 04:20:01 am »
Every one of those low/no symptom candidates are vectors.
All the street level ppl are vectors.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2651 on: March 20, 2020, 04:26:28 am »
Just read today that it's a good idea to keep some Clorox wipes in your car for when you fill up the tank.

Gas pump handles...typing in your zip code.   You should use them immediately after hanging up the pump.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2652 on: March 20, 2020, 04:40:27 am »
Just read today that it's a good idea to keep some Clorox wipes in your car for when you fill up the tank.

Gas pump handles...typing in your zip code.   You should use them immediately after hanging up the pump.

Probably worth double-checking what you read here, since I read days ago that the problem in Italy was, that Italians were "Dramatic."

What I would give for a hand full of postings each day with the major facts, fact-checked.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2653 on: March 20, 2020, 05:06:36 am »
Good question and I don't know. It seems like that was a common issue of other numbers reported earlier on from other countries. Perhaps a number of weeks have to go by with clean test results to officially count as recovered. Or perhaps "recovered" is a low priority for the stat keepers and will be caught up later.
If recovery is a low priority for the statistics keepers, it effectively creates the appearance of greater illness and/or mortality than actually exists. the denominator in the mortality rate is skewed to the low side, making the disease look far more serious overall than it is. It is that sort of behaviour that drives panic, empty store shelves, unnecessary shutdowns, and economic ruin.

Now, it is an election year and there just might be people who think they can parlay disaster into gain for those of their political party--especially undoing four years of economic growth and relative prosperity--even to the point of trying to start the next depression. They only care about power, not people or their policies would have been significantly different for the past 60 years.

As I have repeatedly stated, there are definite and identifiable risk factors which significantly increase the risk of a fatal outcome.

High Blood Pressure,
Coronary Disease,
Diabetes,
to some extent, age, but the above tend to develop with increased years.

There may be other underlying medical conditions which contribute to mortality, but the vast majority of hose who have died had one or more of the above, at least in Italy and the US. We simply don't know enough about elsewhere.

If you have those conditions, or even one of them, it would be prudent to avoid exposure to the virus, whatever that takes.

But 60.8% of the US population works for a living. While I am sure there is some overlap between those with medical conditions named above and that 60.8%, a major shutdown of the economy is going to hurt everyone, and not just this week, month, or year, but quite possibly far beyond that.
Weigh the risks, weigh the cost.

Personally, the only risk factor I have is age, and that by itself may not be relevant.
I'll be working as much as I can to pay bills and feed my family, not waiting on a government dole that may well never trickle down to me.
But for some, the shutdown will destroy their businesses, and rob them of all they have.
According to the SBA, small businesses make up 49.2% of private sector employment. I'm feeling that because with the crash in oil prices, I am suddenly looking for new employment, at least until the oil markets stabilize. My economic outlook has gone from rosy to grim in a week. :shrug: Welcome to the oil patch, all over again, again. Been there done that and never could afford the t-shirt in the end.
Those who lose their jobs due to this shutdown will be without insurance soon, because COBRA rates are venomous compared to having an employer pick up most or all of the tab, and with no paycheck, generally unaffordable in the face of economic uncertainty. A tremendous number of people are living paycheck to paycheck, and another significant group is only a few weeks at most from being broke.

If it comes to that, the "have nots", especially those who worked all their lives and lost it all will be especially envious of the "haves", and whether you use the French Revolution or the Bolshevik Revolution as your model, there will be a large, angry, hungry group who will fit with the paradigm, just waiting for that spark.

Part of the wave that swept this President into office was fueled by anger--anger with Obama and Democrat policy, anger at the apparent impotence of the GOP held Congress, anger at feeling ripped off at every turn.
Carry this panic to the point where 401Ks are gone to ruin (again), where people are out of work, out of money, and out of hope, and it is a clear and present danger to this Republic.
That anger could turn against our current POTUS, fueled by media lies and panic, and in that fit of thoughtless rage elect the likes of Sanders or Biden, or even Hillary herself if they just promise change.

For that reason it behooves the POTUS to be on top of this, clear the way for tests, drug trials, and treatments which demonstrate efficacy, quell the panic, and get things back on track before the damage is too great to see palpable recovery at least in action by November.
In the meantime, the media will point fingers and treat each death as if it were a multitude, while ignoring the everyday mortality from other causes in this country, often in excess of the death toll from this novel disease, and hopefully remaining so. The absence of 'recovered' people in the statistics only feeds the notion that this is the Black Death v.2020, which it is not.
 
While for some and in some places things look grim, like the virus, this panic will have to run its course. Feeding it is not wise.

Emotional arguments are especially hard to avoid when there are those near and dear to us who may be at risk (my parents, for instance, whom I dearly love, and a host of other relatives two thousand miles away), and for some of us, our selves.
It behooves us all to identify the risks, assess those risks, try our damnedest to get realistic data, and not give in to the stampede going on.  Those of us who have prepped, even a little, are at an advantage over people who have not, and even that has its limits, but we can selectively help those who have not.
Keep a clear head. Remain calm, we can always panic later.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2654 on: March 20, 2020, 07:07:38 am »
Lots of us are genetically challenged. You make it sound like those people are throwaway people because they have some defect. They didn't cross the street. They didn't gather in gang land. They minded their own business and had a seriously bad outcome because at least one of them came into contact with someone infected with the Chinese coronavirus. None of us know how well or badly our bodies will respond to this virus. There's legitimate concern about going bankrupt from being in intensive care or losing a family member that isn't in awesome health. The cities are much different than the rural areas as far as risk goes.
Sorry, but i missed this earlier. No people are throwaway people. I simply don't look at people that way, and if you knew me you wouldn't even posit such.

These people had the misfortune to tangle with a virus. They (some of them) further had the misfortune, through genetics or lifestyle or both, to have those medical conditions which have been identified as enhancing risk.
Far from making them or their lives worthless, it is simply tragic.
It is however, humanity's greatest overall strength that we have the genetic and physical diversity to survive such outbreaks as a species, even though individuals will succumb. What in some circumstances may kill you might save you in others and we really have no control over the slings and arrows which nature throws our way.

We all have a legitimate concern about going bankrupt in intensive care, all the more poignant because many will lose their jobs and any insurance they had along with them, making them far more vulnerable to economic extinction than they may be to the virus.
As I have said, there are identified risk factors. Those who have those conditions should avoid exposure the best they can. Those in that situation generally know who they are, their family members should know also, and to a great extent exposure should be avoidable. To the big three, (Coronary disease, Hypertension, and Diabetes) I would likely add anything that makes a person imunocompromised, from Chemo to HIV to anti-rejection drugs for a transplant.
 
I think it is wrong that the remainder who are at much less risk of mortality or even needing advanced medical care are virtually guaranteed going bankrupt over the panic, whether or  not they need medical care.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Applewood

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2655 on: March 20, 2020, 09:00:19 am »
Something to calm us -- Sir Anthony Hopkins playing the piano with his cat, Niblo:


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Offline Gefn

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2656 on: March 20, 2020, 10:07:28 am »
Something to calm us -- Sir Anthony Hopkins playing the piano with his cat, Niblo:


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Kitteh! ❤️❤️❤️

And he looks like my baby girl, now at the Rainbow Bridge
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 10:08:18 am by Gefn »
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Offline Gefn

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2657 on: March 20, 2020, 10:19:51 am »
@Smokin Joe

What also scares me is on the last day before I self quarantined I went to the grocery store and bought some food for my mom and myself to tie us over for a few weeks. I bought smart. A few TV dinners, some frozen veggies, some canned veggies. Milk for both of us. I bought sugar and powered cream for my coffee. Some seafood because no one was buying that.

Anyway, everyone was paying with either regular credit cards or ATM cards.

I worry people will be racking  up and maxing out their credit cards. Not a good thing.

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Offline Gefn

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2658 on: March 20, 2020, 10:21:37 am »
Just read today that it's a good idea to keep some Clorox wipes in your car for when you fill up the tank.

Gas pump handles...typing in your zip code.   You should use them immediately after hanging up the pump.

Hurray, it’s one of the few times I’m happy to say I live in NJ!
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2659 on: March 20, 2020, 10:40:27 am »
@Smokin Joe

What also scares me is on the last day before I self quarantined I went to the grocery store and bought some food for my mom and myself to tie us over for a few weeks. I bought smart. A few TV dinners, some frozen veggies, some canned veggies. Milk for both of us. I bought sugar and powered cream for my coffee. Some seafood because no one was buying that.

Anyway, everyone was paying with either regular credit cards or ATM cards.

I worry people will be racking  up and maxing out their credit cards. Not a good thing.
I have little doubt some of that was going on.
People spend money they don't yet have, and then get in a bind because they don't get the money. 

I bought things we would ordinarily use, with a little extra because those same things were available. Word was that meat, in particular, was going up severely, so I filled the empty spaces in the freezer, with the thought that for a while at least, it would be more economical to do so while that was available and the price was relatively low. No regrets, there.
Stores I have been in are often stripped, so I look for bargains among what is there that we would normally eat. I'm the food shopper of the family (my wife isn't a fan of it) and I often spot things others don't.
But getting those items, usually a one stop deal, became more and more of a scavenger hunt, scattered among four different stores. I'm just glad I bought some extra TP before the run started, because I haven''t seen a roll in the stores since then.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline TomSea

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2660 on: March 20, 2020, 10:52:46 am »
Just read today that it's a good idea to keep some Clorox wipes in your car for when you fill up the tank.

Gas pump handles...typing in your zip code.   You should use them immediately after hanging up the pump.

And if that can happen, is that true for anytime,  one keys in their PIN number, etc. etc. How long can it last? Does that mean we have to worry about virtually everything we touch? Because I've heard that about doorknobs and so on. It starts to become having to worry about really everything? Letters? There was an article on mail carriers yesterday and they were complaining of not even having hand sanitizer which I carry in the car.

And what about the cold?? Can cold kill a virus, say if it was on a gas pump handle?? How about handles going into the store? I'm wearing just some inexpensive gloves I happen to have. I have a few, just in case from doing other things like working on the car and the like.

It can get too worrisome, so I've resigned myself to do the best I possibly can but it seems impossible to get all. Hoping that the precautions are sensible enough.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 10:53:58 am by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2661 on: March 20, 2020, 11:04:11 am »
Because this is a national emergency, so one person was telling me, they will continue to get unemployment for the duration.. it's pretty anecdotal but this sounds about right.

I read the member's post in the last few pages, saying they were drinking tea of ginger and ?? peppermint? I forget the 2nd ingredient but I do know, some mints can play with how the stomach feels, some herbs, camomile may affect digestion or be a relaxant and so on. I would not stop drinking herbal teas over this, just my lay person's view, they probably do more good and it also makes me wonder, maybe per herb tea, not the below, maybe it's good to be cleansing the system anyway, I say all of this before the next article:
Quote
Diarrhea and other digestive symptoms are the main complaint in nearly half of coronavirus patients, Chinese researchers report. Most patients with the coronavirus have respiratory symptoms, but these findings from the early stages of the outbreak show that digestive problems are prevalent in many patients with COVID-19.

"Clinicians must bear in mind that digestive symptoms, such as diarrhea, may be a presenting feature of COVID-19, and that the index of suspicion may need to be raised earlier in these cases rather than waiting for respiratory symptoms to emerge," wrote the investigators from the Wuhan Medical Treatment Expert Group for COVID-19.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-digestive-symptoms-diarrhea-almost-half-of-patients/

Anyway, the President and others, have made clear this "15 day" period is of importance. We must have 12? 11? Days left, so it is going a bit slowly, if things were to get worse, one might feel more impelled to stand by the 15 days. I'm not even sure we got mail yesterday BUT... people, companies are probably now sending out close to zero junk mail so, that could be the explanation, a lot of junk mail usually shows up every week in the mail

« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 11:07:46 am by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2662 on: March 20, 2020, 11:15:29 am »
Lots of Chinese influence around, check this out from the Daily Caller:

Quote
Daily Caller
@DailyCaller
NBC's @KeirSimmons
 says that China "helped" the world by "delaying" the spread of coronavirus
and that it is now "worrying that they may get re-infected...from the rest of the world"



https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1240766137954119680

What a freaking load of rubbish... IN FACT, it was Senator Ted Cruz who pointed this out, glad I save it.

Quote
Ted Cruz
@tedcruz
You’ve gotta be kidding— @nbc
tells of how China may have “helped” the world on Coronavirus. This is blatantly false & delusional propaganda. The CCP covered up the outbreak for months, endangering millions. Our media shouldn’t value Chinese govt $$ more than truth.


https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1240846636303122432

So, again, don't tell me there might be some Chinese influence out going about and yes, it would be shameful...

Did the US Chamber of Commerce, top-lobbying group in the country to the tune of $100 million-plus, actually express reservations about bringing pharmaceutical jobs and plants back to the USA?  It's something like that, that's pretty darn shameful.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2663 on: March 20, 2020, 11:31:51 am »
Lots of Chinese influence around, check this out from the Daily Caller:

What a freaking load of rubbish... IN FACT, it was Senator Ted Cruz who pointed this out, glad I save it.

So, again, don't tell me there might be some Chinese influence out going about and yes, it would be shameful...

Did the US Chamber of Commerce, top-lobbying group in the country to the tune of $100 million-plus, actually express reservations about bringing pharmaceutical jobs and plants back to the USA?  It's something like that, that's pretty darn shameful.
Now that we have, unfortunately, had our eye forcefully opened, I hope we don't forget once we get thru this.... We tend to have very short memories..

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2664 on: March 20, 2020, 12:36:02 pm »
My daughter in-law who is a nurse, is in a hospital that’s asking them to reuse masks because they don’t have enough.

They have 2 cases of a highly contagious disease in their hospital and the medical personnel can’t protect themselves.

This is a dire medical emergency.
The wife ordered a bunch of masks a month ago and we gave away a couple to her PT who does hospital work as the hospital had limited amounts.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2665 on: March 20, 2020, 12:38:13 pm »
There’s a big difference between being informed and aware and panic.

It seems that some prefer being ignorant to an honest discussion of what’s going on so they try to pretend nothing is happening.
Can you point out a single comment where this virus is totally dismissed?

No you cannot.

It is simply being hyperventilated and that is worse than the virus in most cases.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2666 on: March 20, 2020, 12:54:31 pm »
Pretty much what I have been saying al along... immunize the herd. Or medicate the herd and continue to medicate the herd, until the bug becomes resistant, wherein the herd will infect anyhoo.

This quarantine ain't stopping a damn thing.

As has been said many, many times, what it is doing is slowing down the spread so that the medical community isn’t overwhelmed.

Even as it is they are under great stress because of the lack of protective gear.

If I stay at home I will not get sick.  If one has gotten sick and stays at home he or she will not spread the disease further.

An overwhelmed nurse practitioner who is tough as nails wrote last night (not my d-i-l) that people need to stop comparing this to the flu. With the flu and other diseases, there is a known medical treatment.

This is brand new and completely unknown. 

There is no known treatment and people in the medical community are scared.

THEY are the people we need to try our best to protect.  THEY are the reason we need to pay attention to Italy and avoid their grave errors.  THEY are the people on the front lines of a battle against an unknown enemy without even a pith helmet.

Ignoring what they are saying and proclaiming that you know better than they is nothing more than hubris.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2667 on: March 20, 2020, 12:58:51 pm »
Can you point out a single comment where this virus is totally dismissed?

No you cannot.

It is simply being hyperventilated and that is worse than the virus in most cases.

I could point to many, here and elsewhere if I wanted to waste everyone’s time.

See my above post if you want an explanation of whose needs should be our priority.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2668 on: March 20, 2020, 01:12:40 pm »
I could point to many, here and elsewhere if I wanted to waste everyone’s time.

See my above post if you want an explanation of whose needs should be our priority.
That is a big fat zero then.

Point to one if you can
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2669 on: March 20, 2020, 01:14:09 pm »
Diarrhea and other digestive symptoms are the main complaint in nearly half of coronavirus patients, Chinese researchers report. Most patients with the coronavirus have respiratory symptoms, but these findings from the early stages of the outbreak show that digestive problems are prevalent in many patients with COVID-19.

"Clinicians must bear in mind that digestive symptoms, such as diarrhea, may be a presenting feature of COVID-19, and that the index of suspicion may need to be raised earlier in these cases rather than waiting for respiratory symptoms to emerge," wrote the investigators from the Wuhan Medical Treatment Expert Group for COVID-19.
That may also be a symptom of anxiety from all the lockdowns. I know I'm dealing with difficulty eating lately, and probably will until I start seeing concrete signs we're making progress against this.

Remember, the official stats are well behind what's going on on the ground. With an average of 5 days of incubation, plus the time it takes to take and process the test, the official numbers are still showing the rates of infection from the last weekend before the mitigation/lockdown measures began. That's the most frustrating part of this: the delay in seeing whether these distancing measures are working. I'm hoping over the next few days we start seeing a slowdown in new cases.

But eventually, we will need to reassess how to get society back to normal.
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2670 on: March 20, 2020, 01:15:19 pm »
"In the United States, once a drug has been approved for sale for one purpose, physicians are free to prescribe it for any other purpose that in their professional judgment is both safe and effective, and are not limited to official, FDA-approved indications."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-label_use

What are we waiting for?
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Online catfish1957

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2671 on: March 20, 2020, 01:28:07 pm »
Can you point out a single comment where this virus is totally dismissed?

No you cannot.

It is simply being hyperventilated and that is worse than the virus in most cases.

Thanks... I decided to quit responding to the panic driven rhetoric here.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2672 on: March 20, 2020, 01:31:53 pm »
Just read today that it's a good idea to keep some Clorox wipes in your car for when you fill up the tank.

Gas pump handles...typing in your zip code.   You should use them immediately after hanging up the pump.

The VERY first thing I did for my family after this all started was to give them a box of disposable latex gloves to put in their car and told them to use a pair every time they have to fill their cars up with gas. Use hand sanitizer after you are done.
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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2673 on: March 20, 2020, 01:34:01 pm »
The VERY first thing I did for my family after this all started was to give them a box of disposable latex gloves to put in their car and told them to use a pair every time they have to fill their cars up with gas. Use hand sanitizer after you are done.

Surprised stations aren't installing small sanitizer stations at the pumps.  I personally keep a small bottle of purell in the middle compartment handy.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 01:34:54 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2674 on: March 20, 2020, 01:41:43 pm »
Thanks... I decided to quit responding to the panic driven rhetoric here.

Once again...... there is no panic.  Just not a denial of reality.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.