Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion

[Bigun]

I hope everyone is ready for this whole reaction to become an annual thing. Because if we accept the reasons offered for crashing the stock market, trashing the economy & forcing 'shelter in place' etc today there will be no justification not to do the same damn thing the next time another virus comes down the pike.

 

[roamer_1]

I hope everyone is ready for this whole reaction to become an annual thing. Because if we accept the reasons offered for crashing the stock market, trashing the economy & forcing 'shelter in place' etc today there will be no justification not to do the same damn thing the next time another flu virus comes down the pike.

That's exactly right.

[jmyrlefuller]

I hope everyone is ready for this whole reaction to become an annual thing. Because if we accept the reasons offered for crashing the stock market, trashing the economy & forcing 'shelter in place' etc today there will be no justification not to do the same damn thing the next time another virus comes down the pike.

On the contrary—when this is over, we as a society need to put safeguards in place to ensure that this never happens again. If a virus can cause this kind of chaos infecting only 0.1% of the population, what kind of chaos is going to result when a real threat arises?

[musiclady]

I would suggest you reexamine that 'nothing to gain' part, especially as it interfaces government.

This is no different than flu with regard to any success in stopping it. And those vaunted minds in ivory towers have never stopped the flu.

I know that the government is a villain, but the medical professionals I am referring to literally have NOTHING to gain (other than saving hospital resources and keeping people safe).

One thing that I do understand, based on medical/healthcare knowledge and wisdom is that is indeed different than the flu.

Again....... always suspicious of government does not mean covering your eyes about the very real healthcare situation we are in.

Not a sheeple.  Never a sheeple.  Not a lemming.  Never a lemming.

Just informed.

[catfish1957]

On the contrary—when this is over, we as a society need to put safeguards in place to ensure that this never happens again. If a virus can cause this kind of chaos infecting only 0.1% of the population, what kind of chaos is going to result when a real threat arises?

Very true.  That 0.1% to date has wiped out $11T in market cap (wealth) in just two weeks.  And basically has disrupted the life every person in this country. 

Allowing our infrastructure to get this vunerable is criminal IMO.  We better damn well have proper contingency plans in place after this.

[Neverdul]

I don't think the intent of any of this is to stop the virus, but rather to slow its spread so the hospital system can keep up. Unfortunately, modern medicine being what it is, we don't have an abundance of hospital beds in this country (and most likely in western Europe as well.)

It is interesting that the western response to the crisis is to shut down the economy rather than do what's been done in the past - build temporary capacity to address acute illness. We all remember pictures from the Spanish flu epidemic of patients being housed in tent cities. Of course, back then it wasn't swiftly understood that large gatherings, like the infamous Philly war bond parade, were spreading the virus like wildfire.

I wonder whether a happy medium would have worked better. Like where we were a week ago, closing sporting events, parades, concerts and similar large gatherings, but not shutting down all "non-essential businesses" as Philadelphia has now done. The latter will grievously harm the economy, especially small businesses and the millions they employ, and will require economic triage of the budget-busting variety. I fear that we were in the sweet spot between caution and overreaction about a week ago, and now have crossed the line where the economic casualties may well eclipse the human ones.

Hopefully as COVID-19 victims recover we will begin to be able to roll out antibody serums in the next few weeks that can address acute infections and help get us to the place where we can doff the economic noose around our necks.

Actually, not quite true.

It was understood, perhaps not by the average Joe, but certainly by doctors and health officials that large gatherings could spread influenza. Krusen was warned by other health officials to cancel the parade and ignored them.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/philadelphia-threw-wwi-parade-gave-thousands-onlookers-flu-180970372/

A political appointee, Krusen publicly denied that influenza was a threat, saying with assurance that the few military deaths were “old-fashioned influenza or grip.” He promised a campaign against coughing, spitting and sneezing, well aware that two days before the scheduled parade, the nation’s monthly draft call-up had been cancelled because army camps, including nearby Camp Dix in New Jersey and Camp Meade in Maryland, were overwhelmed by a conflagration of virulent influenza. Philadelphia’s parade poured gasoline on the flames.

Krusen’s decision to let the parade go on was based on two fears. He believed that a quarantine might cause a general panic. In fact, when city officials did close down public gatherings, the skeptical Philadelphia Inquirer chided the decision. “Talk of cheerful things instead of disease,” urged the Inquirer on October 5. “The authorities seem to be going daft. What are they trying to do, scare everybody to death?”

After his initial failure to prevent the epidemic from exploding, Wilmer Krusen had attempted to address the crisis, largely in vain. He asked the U.S. army to stop drafting local doctors, appropriated funds to hire more medical workers, mobilized the sanitation department to clean the city, and perhaps most important, clear bodies from the street. It was too little too late. On a single October day, 759 people died in the city and more than 12,000 Philadelphians would die in a matter of weeks.

[Idiot]

Yep!  Let's keep on allowing the destruction of our economy over what amounts to very little!

It amounts to little unless YOU are the one who gets it and are fighting for your life.....just saying....

[Bigun]

Kevin Stone (a friend on FB) has HIS head screwed on very straight!

 Â·
Let's get real. So far, only about 1 person in 50,000 on the planet has been infected with Covid-19. Not dead, just infected. The US has one of the lower infection rates at <1 in 200,000. Again, verified infection, not deaths. And even if the actual infection rate is underreported by a factor of 100, that means that the infected would still amount to a scant 0.05%. As someone who has contracted really bad diseases (adenovirus caught in China in 2007, confirmed West Nile in 2003 from a mosquito bite in Dallas), I get that you can catch nasty stuff even with a lower infection rate than that projected for Covid-19. But I survived and am fine with the fact that I got the illnesses rather than shutting the economy down to everyone's detriment.

We are killing our nation, shutting down everything and losing production that cannot be recovered, with a death toll in this country amounting to 1 in 8,000,000. Again, let that sink in. We are losing our minds over a death toll a full month into a so-called "pandemic" (more like dem-panic) that is up there with the number of fatalities caused by wild pigs. This is a PANIC. Get a grip on yourself and get back to work or whatever it is that you normally do. I'm going to the store in hopes of being able to find the few items I need on the shelves rather than moldering in some hoarder's basement.

[skeeter]

Very true.  That 0.1% to date has wiped out $11T in market cap (wealth) in just two weeks.  And basically has disrupted the life every person in this country. 

Suffering among seniors as the stock market tanks due to the panic is unquantifiable.

I feel like a financial genius for putting my mother's Roth IRA in a cash account 6 months ago.

[Bigun]

It amounts to little unless YOU are the one who gets it and are fighting for your life.....just saying....

Happens to people ALL the time and we don't shut the economy down over it! What makes this different?

[TomSea]

Tom Hanks, wife, released from hospital.

Kentucky Derby postponed, I believe postponed and not cancelled.

-----------------

Those dismissing the virus, I think just do not have the information.... I'm not knocking them,  I don't want to see the US cremating bodies because there are so many deaths (and remember, those bodies are dangerous to handle so, they got to do that),  I don't want to see hotels or other facilities taken control of to make room for those needing help, I don't want to see hazmat suits on my street,  the list goes on.

Yeah, and if one gets sick, even young people, you are using more nurses, more doctors, they need to help those in most dire need, not those who get sick because they take this lightly.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Again............ I have many friends in healthcare, physicians, nurses, hospital executives, and they are ALL taking this seriously.

People who mock the informed, thoughtful decisions of people who actually understand disease and how it spreads are just plain ignorant.

Where was the panic over 36 million flu illnesses, 370,000 hospitalizations and 22,000 deaths from the flu just in the US and just to Mar 7, 2020???  (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm)  Didn't any of your friends take this seriously?

Briefers should be able to ask what's driving this unprecedented 24/7 drumbeat over the Wuhan flu virus without fear of personally threatening or offending you.

Take whatever precautions you deem prudent @musiclady  ... but please don't stop others from trying to extinguish the panic even if you embrace it; and please don't stop people from asking questions about this "crisis" even if you will not.

[Idiot]

Happens to people ALL the time and we don't shut the economy down over it! What makes this different?

Personally....  I have a 90 yr old mom that I look after.  If she gets it she's done.  I take this virus VERY seriously....
I pray to the Good Lord that we are all over reacting. 

I will apologize to all if in a few weeks this all blows over.....

[roamer_1]

We are killing our nation, shutting down everything and losing production that cannot be recovered, with a death toll in this country amounting to 1 in 8,000,000. Again, let that sink in. We are losing our minds over a death toll a full month into a so-called "pandemic" (more like dem-panic) that is up there with the number of fatalities caused by wild pigs. This is a PANIC. Get a grip on yourself and get back to work or whatever it is that you normally do. I'm going to the store in hopes of being able to find the few items I need on the shelves rather than moldering in some hoarder's basement.

 

Except the 'hoarder' thing. This is the prepper's time to shine. THEY WERE RIGHT.

[Bigun]

Where was the panic over 36 million flu illnesses, 370,000 hospitalizations and 22,000 deaths from the flu just in the US and just to Mar 7, 2020???  (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm)  Didn't any of your friends take this seriously?

Briefers should be able to ask what's driving this unprecedented 24/7 drumbeat over the Wuhan flu virus without fear of personally threatening or offending you.

Take whatever precautions you deem prudent @musiclady  ... but please don't stop others from trying to extinguish the panic even if you embrace it; and please don't stop people from asking questions about this "crisis" even if you will not.

 

[roamer_1]

Where was the panic over 36 million flu illnesses, 370,000 hospitalizations and 22,000 deaths from the flu just in the US and just to Mar 7, 2020???  (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm)  Didn't any of your friends take this seriously?

Briefers should be able to ask what's driving this unprecedented 24/7 drumbeat over the Wuhan flu virus without fear of personally threatening or offending you.

Dammit RiV, stop making sense. This is twice this week we have agreed... What are ppl gonna think?

[aligncare]

I would suggest you reexamine that 'nothing to gain' part, especially as it interfaces government.

This is no different than flu with regard to any success in stopping it. And those vaunted minds in ivory towers have never stopped the flu.

People should stop and realize that organized medicine is just as highly political as any other segment of society—and it leans decidedly to the left.

Remember that Obama expanded bureaucratic agencies—including CDC—by many factors. His holdovers are buried deep and have personal agendas, as we witnessed with the intelligence community, whose operatives seemed not to care one bit the harm the were causing to national security by spreading lies and misinformation about Trump and Russia.

National security or public health, subterfuge in either area can result in American deaths just the same.

[EdinVA]

Personally....  I have a 90 yr old mom that I look after.  If she gets it she's done.  I take this virus VERY seriously....
I pray to the Good Lord that we are all over reacting.

You are right... My dad is 89 and my mom is 88 and other than running errands to keep them out of harms way, there is not much I can do.
I also have an 11 year old grandson living with me and his school is closed and needs entertainment so if I let this get me down the it has an impact on him so I gotta stay up beat...

[TomSea]

I don't think the intent of any of this is to stop the virus, but rather to slow its spread so the hospital system can keep up.

Exactly, well, this first line is right on the mark, imho.

It doesn't take much research to see, even if people are saying some age groups are much less affected, they are still taking up precious resources should they get sick.

Odds are some person here will get it, it just seems the chances are so.

[Bigun]

Personally....  I have a 90 yr old mom that I look after.  If she gets it she's done.  I take this virus VERY seriously....
I pray to the Good Lord that we are all over reacting. 

I will apologize to all if in a few weeks this all blows over.....

I'm very sorry that you find yourself in that situation @mrpotatohead and you don't need to apologize for anything.  I do however stand by everything I've said here previously!

[roamer_1]

People should stop and realize that organized medicine is just as highly political as any other segment of society—and it leans decidedly to the left.

[...]

National security or public health, subterfuge in either area can result in American deaths just the same.

That's right

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Failing  Michigan Governor must work harder and be much more proactive. We are pushing her to get the job done. I stand with Michigan!
8:27 AM · Mar 17, 2020

Pretty bold words from the President who finally admitted Covid-19 wasn't under control yesterday.

[austingirl]

Kevin Stone (a friend on FB) has HIS head screwed on very straight!

 Â·
Let's get real. So far, only about 1 person in 50,000 on the planet has been infected with Covid-19. Not dead, just infected. The US has one of the lower infection rates at <1 in 200,000. Again, verified infection, not deaths. And even if the actual infection rate is underreported by a factor of 100, that means that the infected would still amount to a scant 0.05%. As someone who has contracted really bad diseases (adenovirus caught in China in 2007, confirmed West Nile in 2003 from a mosquito bite in Dallas), I get that you can catch nasty stuff even with a lower infection rate than that projected for Covid-19. But I survived and am fine with the fact that I got the illnesses rather than shutting the economy down to everyone's detriment.

We are killing our nation, shutting down everything and losing production that cannot be recovered, with a death toll in this country amounting to 1 in 8,000,000. Again, let that sink in. We are losing our minds over a death toll a full month into a so-called "pandemic" (more like dem-panic) that is up there with the number of fatalities caused by wild pigs. This is a PANIC. Get a grip on yourself and get back to work or whatever it is that you normally do. I'm going to the store in hopes of being able to find the few items I need on the shelves rather than moldering in some hoarder's basement.

Great post @Bigun

93% of the cases worldwide are mild. Too bad that critical thinking has gone by the wayside. There ae no cases in my area. I'm living my life as usual, going to the gym, to the vet. As a registered nurse, I have full faith in my ability to minimize my risk. The panic is far worse than the virus and is causing damage to the economy from which many will never recover. Then everyone will turn to the almighty and all-powerful national government.

[TomSea]

Wuhan flu:

Yes, Coronavirus Is Worse Than the Flu
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/yes-coronavirus-is-worse-than-the-flu/

Deadlier than most strains of the flu, would kill many more, is much more contagious. That part's pretty easy.

Also, note, while some are suspicious of the US government,

Maybe, it's not for sure, but maybe, the government that is being left off the hook are the CHICOMS.

So, this preachiness, The Government is doing this and that, doesn't phase me at all.   The Chinese skate on this, while Chinese in numbers, try to come across our southern border, border patrol men are more at risk, etc. etc. etc.

Believe what  you want,  everyone has rationales.

Young people may not die, they still use precious resources, nurses, doctors, beds, defibrillators or respirators, again, etc. etc.

[Idiot]

I go to a rather large church.  Numerous doctors that also attend are parroting what the CDC is saying.  These are knowledgeable individuals, some of who I know personally who are very very concerned about what's coming.  I've never seen them like this.  If the people in the know are freaked out over this then...……….