Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion

[skeeter]

Of course they are -- the MSM has a story to cover every day that is the story of the decade.  They will sensationalize as much as they can as long as they can also emphasize that somehow this is Trump's fault.

The DEMS are jumping for joy -- the economy is tanking, Americans will be out of work, companies will close, unemployment will rise and since the border still isn't closed -- he'll have virtually nothing to run on.  I wonder which DEM conspired with China? -- sorry folks -- that is what it looks like -- Russian collusion and impeachment didn't work.

Turning nothing more than a particularly nasty flu bug into a political coup may just end up being the scam of the century.

[roamer_1]

Of course they are -- the MSM has a story to cover every day that is the story of the decade.  They will sensationalize as much as they can as long as they can also emphasize that somehow this is Trump's fault.

The DEMS are jumping for joy -- the economy is tanking, Americans will be out of work, companies will close, unemployment will rise and since the border still isn't closed -- he'll have virtually nothing to run on.  I wonder which DEM conspired with China? -- sorry folks -- that is what it looks like -- Russian collusion and impeachment didn't work.

I don't think you're thinking anywhere near big enough.

[Idiot]

I repeat.............. I am talking about science and healthcare professionals, not the media, nor the overreactive public.

This is different.  We will recover, but this is different.

Days ago I would have disagreed with you....but not now.  It is different....  I just got a text from a friend who's daughter in law works as a PA in Dallas.  Said they are starting to get cases and it's bad.  Too close to home for me....

[DB]

In the face of martial law? In the face of destroying uncountable businesses? In the face of putting the whole country on the damn dole?

It ain't no different.

Regarding government's heavy hand that's a different issue. The virus is what it is. What do you do when the hospitals are overloaded and people are dying that could otherwise be saved because there aren't enough resources to take care of them all at the same time? That's what's happening in Italy. It wasn't panic that created the mess there.

Iran tried to ignore it. That hasn't gone well for them.

I'm not claiming to know what the right answer is here. I don't know. I do believe this is significantly more serious than the common flu. And it is likely to do a lot of damage no matter how it is handled.

I have a daughter going to Arizona State University. I also have my 84 year old mother in the same household. There are some serious concerns here.

[DB]

I don't think you're thinking anywhere near big enough.

The root is China. There needs to be a major realignment of the world with China after this.

[musiclady]

Days ago I would have disagreed with you....but not now.  It is different....  I just got a text from a friend who's daughter in law works as a PA in Dallas.  Said they are starting to get cases and it's bad.  Too close to home for me....

Exactly.

Days ago I would have disagreed with myself! 

When a family member is quarantined in northern Indiana, people are being diagnosed without symptoms, it is better to err on the side of caution.

As I said above, the decisions that may seem draconian now may very well be the reason the curve goes down faster and lives are saved.

I'm thankful, personally, to be in Ohio where the healthcare professionals and science are being utilized, the media ignored, and the lives of people at risk are a top priority.

Just found out our election tomorrow has been extended and votes can be sent in until June 2nd.  I'm glad to see that the poll workers health was a consideration.

I'm not an alarmist in any sense, but this is something we haven't seen before........... unless some of you remember 1918. 

[musiclady]

Regarding government's heavy hand that's a different issue. The virus is what it is. What do you do when the hospitals are overloaded and people are dying that could otherwise be saved because there aren't enough resources to take care of them all at the same time? That's what's happening in Italy. It wasn't panic that created the mess there.

Iran tried to ignore it. That hasn't gone well for them.

I'm not claiming to know what the right answer is here. I don't know. I do believe this is significantly more serious than the common flu. And it is likely to do a lot of damage no matter how it is handled.

I have a daughter going to Arizona State University. I also have my 84 year old mother in the same household. There are some serious concerns here.

The main concern for the states is having adequate medical supplies and not overwhelming the system (as happened in Italy).  If preventative measures are taken, our awesome healthcare facilities can take care of the cases as they come.

Prevention is smart.

[Smokin Joe]

Days ago I would have disagreed with you....but not now.  It is different....  I just got a text from a friend who's daughter in law works as a PA in Dallas.  Said they are starting to get cases and it's bad.  Too close to home for me....

Consider, please: You don't go to the doctor if you don't feel bad, and while that scale slides depending on the individual. If you are really sick, (not 'just a cold' ) you are more likely to seek medical attention.

If you have a mere case of the sniffles, you generally don't go to the doctor, you pick up some remedy at the store or gut it out until you feel better. The mild cases aren't being counted, because they aren't being detected.

In Dallas, there are 1.34 Million people (almost twice as many as we have in our whole state), so sure, the medical centers in that concentrated group of humans, once the infection is introduced to the community, will come in, and it will seem like a lot.

But one hundred cases in the hospital, while it may seem like it would be a lot, is only 0.007 percent of the population. If there were 100 deaths from the virus, in Dallas is still a very small mortality rate because of the size of the population.

What you are seeing there is a very narrow tightly focused view on the absolute worst aspects of this.
It's why ER staff, police, and First Responders have a high burnout rate.   

[mountaineer]

Husband just conversed with a lady at Wal-Mart who said her daughter works at CDC in Atlanta. Daughter told her last night that mandatory 2 week quarantine will be imposed within next 48-72 hours.

Hearsay from a stranger, FWIW.

[roamer_1]

Regarding government's heavy hand that's a different issue.

No. I would say that's the real issue - and it is intimately intertwined with the virus.

The virus is what it is. What do you do when the hospitals are overloaded and people are dying that could otherwise be saved because there aren't enough resources to take care of them all at the same time? That's what's happening in Italy. It wasn't panic that created the mess there.

Iran tried to ignore it. That hasn't gone well for them.

It's actually a logistics problem and not prevention, with in normal reason... I think the virus will do what it does - You might as well try to stop the sun from rising. Do you think a government that can't stop the flow at the border can stop anything internally? Not without a lockdown like you wouldn't believe... And I expect that's what's coming. And even at that, the street will still be functioning. illegal drugs will still be flowing, the poor will still be mingling, the homeless will still be shitting... Which means of course that all the lock down will be ineffective.

I'm not claiming to know what the right answer is here. I don't know. I do believe this is significantly more serious than the common flu. And it is likely to do a lot of damage no matter how it is handled.

I have a daughter going to Arizona State University. I also have my 84 year old mother in the same household. There are some serious concerns here.

I don't know if that's true... If you omit hotspots, the overall toll is cut in half or more. Even if it is as bad as they are saying, shutting down means logistical problems get worsen not better. You've just fixed the number of respirators in any given region, because shut down, there is no way in hell your getting more. It creates a finite pie.

I get the concern, I do. I have family in health care, and my mother and sister are certainly at risk, as am I myself in some aspects... So I get it.

[TomSea]

[skeeter]

What you said, @roamer_1.

[roamer_1]

I agree. We still don't have any decent numbers because 80% (for what the statistic is worth) will experience mild symptoms, similar to a cold, and will likely dismiss those symptoms as just that.

If that is the case, and only those presenting with the worst symptoms are being tested, what we are seeing is the worst case scenario in numbers, when reality would present a far lower mortality rate.

And you know that really IS the case. Mortality numbers are based only upon those sick enough to warrant testing... And in that you KNOW the lion's share are not being tested.

Limits on the number of available test kits would ensure those would be used on cases where symptoms were severe enough to suspect the COVID-19 infection, while those assuming it is a cold are just getting by with OTC cold remedies and recovering without ever ticking the meter.

I know, I, for one, (like millions of others with no insurance) would not be running off to the doctor or ER to spend up to a grand to get tested for something I am recovering from, I'll just stay home until I am well.

That's right.

[DB]

Consider, please: You don't go to the doctor if you don't feel bad, and while that scale slides depending on the individual. If you are really sick, (not 'just a cold' ) you are more likely to seek medical attention.

If you have a mere case of the sniffles, you generally don't go to the doctor, you pick up some remedy at the store or gut it out until you feel better.

In Dallas, there are 1.34 Million people (almost twice as many as we have in our whole state), so sure, the medical centers in that concentrated group of humans, once the infection is introduced to the community, will come in, and it will seem like a lot.

But one hundred cases in the hospital, while it may seem like it would be a lot, is only 0.007 percent of the population.
100 deaths from the virus, on Dallas is still a very small mortality rate because of the size of the population.

Understand, don't disagree. But we simply don't know how many people have been infected to know where that leads. If most people have been infected and that's all that has happened that would be very good news. That would also mean there's not much more the virus can infect. But we have no reliable data to know any of that.

It is clearly very infectious. If only 5,000 people of that 1.34 million have been infected that 100 deaths becomes significant and has a lot of upward mobility to get far worse. If 500,000 of that 1.34 million have been infected then it has likely run its course.

We simply don't know. Making bad assumptions either way has serious consequences.

[roamer_1]

Husband just conversed with a lady at Wal-Mart who said her daughter works at CDC in Atlanta. Daughter told her last night that mandatory 2 week quarantine will be imposed within next 48-72 hours.

Hearsay from a stranger, FWIW.

My son who has close LEO ties, has heard likewise... And oddly enough, the people I know that could actually confirm are all unavailable.

[Applewood]

Husband just conversed with a lady at Wal-Mart who said her daughter works at CDC in Atlanta. Daughter told her last night that mandatory 2 week quarantine will be imposed within next 48-72 hours.

Hearsay from a stranger, FWIW.

I just about believe it ill happen or at least it will be considered.  New Rochelle is already on lockdown.  San Francisco too I think.  The government is waiting to see how well the "tests" in those places go over before they institute it nationwide.  Are people going to be good little boys and girls and do what they are told, or will they have to bring in the authorities (maybe the military) to enforce the lockdown?

Sorry, but I'm still spooked about New Rochelle with the National Guard in place.

[skeeter]

My son who has close LEO ties, has heard likewise... And oddly enough, the people I know that could actually confirm are all unavailable.

Santa Clara county just order nonessential businesses closed for three weeks. 

[mountaineer]

I am currently undergoing PT post-hip replacement. No big deal to the government if my recovery suffers or I don't regain proper function because I'm not permitted to go to the PT facility.
 

[roamer_1]

Santa Clara county just order nonessential businesses closed for three weeks.

That's INSANE.

[GrouchoTex]

San Francisco closed down now.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/san-francisco-ordered-to-shelter-in-place-due-to-coronavirus/ar-BB11gYgq?ocid=spartanntp

[GrouchoTex]

11 states have closed down restaurant dining.

[DB]

No. I would say that's the real issue - and it is intimately intertwined with the virus.

It's actually a logistics problem and not prevention, with in normal reason... I think the virus will do what it does - You might as well try to stop the sun from rising. Do you think a government that can't stop the flow at the border can stop anything internally? Not without a lockdown like you wouldn't believe... And I expect that's what's coming. And even at that, the street will still be functioning. illegal drugs will still be flowing, the poor will still be mingling, the homeless will still be shitting... Which means of course that all the lock down will be ineffective.

I don't know if that's true... If you omit hotspots, the overall toll is cut in half or more. Even if it is as bad as they are saying, shutting down means logistical problems get worsen not better. You've just fixed the number of respirators in any given region, because shut down, there is no way in hell your getting more. It creates a finite pie.

I get the concern, I do. I have family in health care, and my mother and sister are certainly at risk, as am I myself in some aspects... So I get it.

There isn't likely enough time to produce enough respirators to really change things at this point. A specialty product that has a long list of procurement requirement items. It should be pursued, but will likely be late to the party. The only real option left is slow the infection rate so that you lower the peak amount of respirators needed so more people can be treated overall. It allows more time for new production. It also allows more time for a possible vaccine or other treatment to come online.

I don't know what the right balance is. There is significant destruction on either side of the equation.

[GrouchoTex]

Friday, I heard that gatherings of 250 or more should be postponed for 2 weeks.
This morning, I heard gatherings of 50 or more should be postponed for 8 weeks.
Now I am hearing 10 or less, and older people stay home, for the next 15 days, via President Trump

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/us-tells-older-people-to-stay-home-all-ages-to-avoid-crowds/ar-BB11gYjz

This quote from the article:

The president, in an appearance in the White House briefing room, when asked when the pandemic would subside, said that “if we do a really good job" the crisis could pass by July or August, a far less optimistic take than in his earlier predictions that it could be over within weeks.

July or August?

WTF?

[roamer_1]

There isn't likely enough time to produce enough respirators to really change things at this point. A specialty product that has a long list of procurement requirement items. It should be pursued, but will likely be late to the party. The only real option left is slow the infection rate so that you lower the peak amount of respirators needed so more people can be treated overall. It allows more time for new production. It also allows more time for a possible vaccine or other treatment to come online.

I don't know what the right balance is. There is significant destruction on either side of the equation.

Show me that we have ever effectively stopped a virus and I might believe an alternate option... But that significant distruction is already ordained. which means a focus on logistics is what will actually be effective.

[mystery-ak]

I am currently undergoing PT post-hip replacement. No big deal to the government if my recovery suffers or I don't regain proper function because I'm not permitted to go to the PT facility.
 

Do your exercises...take small walks and practice going up and down a few steps...same with a chair..getting up and down....