Author Topic: Rand Paul: 'Diplomacy is dead now in the Middle East with Iran' after Soleimani killing  (Read 2038 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Nope, not forgetting.  That Al-Baghdadi was in a Turkey protection zone for all that time.

Breitbart:

https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2019/10/28/kurds-al-baghdadi-operation-a-month-late-due-to-turkish-aggression/
Ummm Hmmm. From your link:
Quote
Cumhuriyet later revealed evidence that Turkish military officers were in direct contact with senior Islamic State terrorists to coordinate opening the border to allow foreign jihadists to enter Turkey and join the ISIS fray.
This, apparently because the Kurds were seen as a more imminent threat by the Turks than ISIS.

We differed in that assessment, apparently, and Turkey was in about the same position Obama was left in after Bin Laden's demise. Take some credit, smile for the cameras and 'handle it'.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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I don't think that is fair.  In October Trump was the antiwar lets get out of Syria guy.  Then he sends more in.  I remember that conversation here.  Many were saying that Trump promised to bring home our troops.  They were giving Paul praise for his antiwar stance also.

I have not changed.  I support war and military strikes to defend our allies and protect our interests in the ME. 

And speaking of bad actors:

https://www.nordicmonitor.com/2019/10/top-erdogans-aides-probed-for-irgc-quds-force-links-in-a-hushed-up-probe/

And honestly I can't remember what your stance was on the Syria pull out that gave Erdogan green light.  But a whole lot of bad actors liked that also.

I never had enough information about the Syrian deal to formulate any kind of opinion.  Nobody in charge was telling us the truth, and I mean nobody.  I do know I never liked Edogan.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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I never had enough information about the Syrian deal to formulate any kind of opinion.  Nobody in charge was telling us the truth, and I mean nobody.  I do know I never liked Edogan.

Me neither.  OK.  Well like I said I support the President for his action to take this Iranian General out.  What to watch now is going to be what the President does in the coming days following this military strike.  We will have to see.  This I think was an act of strength that was much needed.  But in the next few days the Global world will react and we will see Trump in action for better or worse.  We will see.   
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Offline LegalAmerican

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He is no better than a delusional 60s Peacenick

People like Truman, Eisenhower, Reagan knew that Peae is obtained by taking very firm, hard stands.

Sometimes that means making the enemhy die, as Patton opined.

 Agree. Rand Paul is a RINO.  The choose Republican cloak to try & sell his ideas.  Media loves to use him, as he typically loves to bad mouth my president.  He is one of the DIRTY DOZEN, (RINO'S) who wanted to stop NATIONAL SECURITY AT BORDER.  I HAVE NO USE FOR HOWDY DOODY.


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Offline LegalAmerican

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Rand Paul:
'Diplomacy is dead now in the Middle East with Iran' after Soleimani killing

Fishrrman to Rand Paul:
There never WAS any "diplomacy" to be had with Iran.
Except, perhaps, coming in on the warhead end of a cruise missile.


Correct. Muslims are told to lie to further their agenda.  Rand Paul is as useless as teats on a bull.
So, I've heard men say.

Offline LegalAmerican

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Chosen daughter used 'green light' in her post. THAT IS DIRECT, FROM LAME, LYING, LEFT,   MEDIA.  Zero green light was given.
3 kinds of KURDS. Some worse than ISSI with cruelty!  Like MS-13.

Offline LegalAmerican

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Tweet

Secretary Pompeo
@SecPompeo
·
Jan 2
Iraqis — Iraqis — dancing in the street for freedom; thankful that General Soleimani is no more.


EJ 🇺🇸 ⛳️ shared "2020 Democrats condemn Soleimani before attacking Trump for airstrikes...   
Add star  Twitter<info@twitter.com>
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 06:01:16 am by LegalAmerican »

Offline dancer

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According to Lindsey Graham, the strike was pre-emptive.  Soleimani was responsible for 17% of all American deaths in the ME.  He was there to plan & carry out more attacks.

Offline jpsb

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He is no better than a delusional 60s Peacenick

People like Truman, Eisenhower, Reagan knew that Peae is obtained by taking very firm, hard stands.

Sometimes that means making the enemhy die, as Patton opined.

Truman was a fool

Offline Smokin Joe

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According to Lindsey Graham, the strike was pre-emptive.  Soleimani was responsible for 17% of all American deaths in the ME.  He was there to plan & carry out more attacks.
Consider that the Quds Force had their fingers in operations worldwide, removing Soleimani and some lower level (but still significant) actors is a good move.

Iran will have to 'do something' to maintain their status, the question is what and where. How far are they willing to take this? As long as there are countervailing influences in the region, there will be no peace in the region, not for anyone.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline EdinVA

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Offline Axeslinger

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I wish people could truly understand how big those things are.  When my two football fields long supply ship pulled up next to one...which was twice as long...and I’m standing on the main deck of my ship some 4 stories above the water and I look up, up, up another 7 or 8 stories to the flight deck....

They are truly incredible machines up close
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If Rand isn't carefull someone might hit him so hard it'll knock a lung loose.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 03:32:16 pm by Wingnut »
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Offline dfwgator

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Diplomacy is overrated.

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War is diplomacy by other means.
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Offline sneakypete

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Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Diplomacy is overrated.

@dfwgator

True,but it is always worth a try.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online bigheadfred

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@dfwgator

True,but it is always worth a try.

Not with jihadists.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline mountaineer

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What kind of diplomacy works with people whose worldview/religion encourages them to lie? Doesn't actual diplomacy require at least an effort at living up to one's promises?
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Offline sneakypete

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Not with jihadists.

@bigheadfred

Costs NOTHING to tell them to behave. You can always drop the hammer if they don't.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online bigheadfred

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@bigheadfred

Costs NOTHING to tell them to behave. You can always drop the hammer if they don't.

It costs American lives to tell them to behave. The ONLY thing they understand is the hammer.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline LegalAmerican

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"I think without a declaration of war, without Congress and the American people behind it, what you get is a messy mission. You get a mission of escalating intermittent violence," Paul told Cavuto. "The president said he didn't want perpetual war in the Middle East. But he's adding more and more troops. If you don't want perpetual war, you don't keep sending more targets over there."

Paul believes it is more likely that "Iran, their militias and their proxies will attack the U.S." following the death of Soleimani.

The above is exactly what I think.  An attack will happen in the United States.
Killing this general would not stop an already planned attack on our people over there.  I do not think there was any planned attack, but saying it, gave Trump what he wanted to kill another bad guy.  He wants to kill individuals so he can take credit as the big guy who kills other big guys, making him the biggest guy who gets applause for killing guys.  Malignant Narcissism.


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Offline EdinVA

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Isn't diplomacy just another way of saying Quid Pro Quo?
How can you convince someone of doing something unless you have something they want?

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Chosen daughter used 'green light' in her post. THAT IS DIRECT, FROM LAME, LYING, LEFT,   MEDIA.  Zero green light was given.
3 kinds of KURDS. Some worse than ISSI with cruelty!  Like MS-13.

These are complete lies.  That is the problem with your posts.  You don't mind lying for Trump.  These Kurds fought with our troops to kill and contain ISIS.  Trump bragged about ISIS being 100% contained.  He still is doing that even though there has been a 300% uptick in ISIS attacks following the Turkish incursion. 

Further more it created soft ethnic cleansing of Kurds and Christians who have had their livelihood stolen.  Forced from their homes and land to allow for Turkey to replace them with their Islamic refugee's.  Stop lying.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ethnic+cleansing+of+Christians+in+Syria+following+Turkey&view=detail&mid=F837C510E022359CDC2AF837C510E022359CDC2A&FORM=VIRE

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ethnic+cleansing+of+Christians+in+Syria+following+Turkey&view=detail&mid=FFC49D397E992C7CF4B2FFC49D397E992C7CF4B2&FORM=VIRE

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ethnic+cleansing+of+Christians+in+Syria+following+Turkey&view=detail&mid=8FAFD59DC791677F47488FAFD59DC791677F4748&FORM=VIRE

Again Trump says that ISIS is destroyed.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?467859-1/president-trump-speaks-air-strike-killed-iranian-commander&start=150
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 09:05:26 pm by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I disagree with you, although I agree there's a likelihood there will be an attack in the U.S.   This was a targeted and measured response,  against a shadowy operator who has sown chaos in the area for years,  apparently orchestrated the attack on the U.S. embassy and (last year) bombed Saudi oil installations in an attempt to rupture the world economy.   This was a message sent to the Iranian government, without affecting the lives of the Iranian people,  unlike what a strike on Iranian oil facilities would do as advocated by some including Lindsay Graham.   

This can and should be interpreted as tit for tat and a spur to serious negotiations.   If it does not turn out that way,  that will be the Iranians' choice.  This was an astonishing feat of American intelligence and military skill.   I have to believe that the Iranian understand the seriousness of our intent, and the tools at our disposal.     

@Jazzhead

Very well said.  The problem the Iranians have is that their options are limited -- what can they realistically do that 1) they haven't already done/attempted to do, and 2) won't escalate things to the point where they will surely lose?  If they try to attack our ships, we can take out their port facilities with comparative ease.  That kind of an exchange will hurt them a lot more than it will hurt us.  And they can try to attack us in Iraq...except that's what they've been doing for years anyway.

Their potential options are further limited by domestic unrest.  What is going to happen to them internally if they try to go to a full war footing?

I think that in retrospect, this is going to be seen as one of those actions where you end up saying "we should have done this a long time ago."