Christianity Today says it saw a spike in subscriptions after it called for Trump's removal

[musiclady]

@Applewood haven't you learned the 11th Commandment yet?  Thou shall not criticize Trump.

I'm pretty sure that Commandment has taken over as Number One for some.....   

It's been remarkable to see the venom coming from other so-called Christians because Mr Galli wrote a thoughtful article disagreeing with their feelings about Trump.  How dare a thinking Christian disagree with their adoration and veneration of a highly flawed, openly sinful man?

He spoke for a lot of Christians in voicing the grave concern as to what is happening to what used to be the Evangelical call to spread the message of Christ and has now become (for some) the call to spread the message of Trump.

I don't know that the Evangelical image will recover from this idolatry....... and sometimes blasphemy. 

[sneakypete]

 

It's been remarkable to see the venom coming from other so-called Christians because Mr Galli wrote a thoughtful article disagreeing with their feelings about Trump. 

@musiclady

"THOUGHTFUL"????? ROFLMAO! If that retard ever had a thought it would die of loneliness. He considers himself to be a member of the intellectual elite,and has never had an original thought in his entire life,and ALL he had accomplished is he learned how to read and babble nonsense.

I really,REALLY hope all the people who fix his house,cars,do his laundry,and provide all the other services he needs gets to read that brain fart,though.

I don't know that the Evangelical image will recover from this idolatry....... and sometimes blasphemy.

Uhhhh,don't do a lot of worrying about the "evangelical image". I am fairly confident it won't drop.

[PeteS in CA]

...
It's been remarkable to see the venom coming from other so-called Christians because Mr Galli wrote a thoughtful article disagreeing with their feelings about Trump. 1.  How dare a thinking Christian disagree with their adoration and veneration of a highly flawed, openly sinful man?
...
I don't know that the Evangelical image will recover from this idolatry....... and sometimes blasphemy. 2.

1. I and others have pointed out, with specifics, that Galli's article is predicated on a lie. Is this "venom".

2. Oh, please! That talking point is worn so thin it has more holes than Emmentaler cheese.

[musiclady]

1. I and others have pointed out, with specifics, that Galli's article is predicated on a lie. Is this "venom".

2. Oh, please! That talking point is worn so thin it has more holes than Emmentaler cheese.

I don't believe you were the subject of my comments, Pete.  No need to defend yourself if you're not guilty of any of the facts I have brought up.

However, don't close your eyes to the Trump supporters and 'evangelical' followers who are out of control with love for Trump and hatred for anyone who dares go against the flow.  Who are seemingly more devoted to political power now than they are to principles.

I disagree with the part of the editorial about impeachment, but I completely agree with the part about lack of concern for his lack of integrity, and compromising moral positions held for us for decades, historically for millenia, and that it will damage the positive influence of Evangelical Christianity in the world.

I have seen many, many dedicated Christ-followers who have said "FINALLY!  Someone is voicing what I think", after reading this article.

Mock and deride it (us) at your own peril.

Conservative Christians are not unanimous in their adoration for Trump.  Someone is just finally speaking out for us.

[Applewood]

He may not be liberal, but he is most certainly incompetent in his civics as there is zero basis for his recommendation to back impeachment and removal as per the Constitution.

We'll, I don't know about all that.   This impeachment smacks of reality tv, so I haven't been following it all that closely and thus, don't really know if there is a valid basis for Trump's removal. 

But I don't think Mr. Galli's comments make him a liberal, nor do I think his comments are "evil."  Whether we agree or not, the man has a right to express his opinion, and all the hysteria over his doing so is really over the top.

[musiclady]

We'll, I don't know about all that.   This impeachment smacks of reality tv, so I haven't been following it all that closely and thus, don't really know if there is a valid basis for Trump's removal. 

But I don't think Mr. Galli's comments make him a liberal, nor do I think his comments are "evil."  Whether we agree or not, the man has a right to express his opinion, and all the hysteria over his doing so is really over the top.

And again, making it look like Christians are group thinkers and oppose freedom of thought and speech. (Which obviously some do).

Disagree with what the man says (I do some of it), but for heaven's sake, calling him "evil" because he criticizes Trump??

It reflects poorly on people of faith to demand unanimity of thought because of loyalty to a politician.

[libertybele]

I'm pretty sure that Commandment has taken over as Number One for some.....   

It's been remarkable to see the venom coming from other so-called Christians because Mr Galli wrote a thoughtful article disagreeing with their feelings about Trump.  How dare a thinking Christian disagree with their adoration and veneration of a highly flawed, openly sinful man?

He spoke for a lot of Christians in voicing the grave concern as to what is happening to what used to be the Evangelical call to spread the message of Christ and has now become (for some) the call to spread the message of Trump.

I don't know that the Evangelical image will recover from this idolatry....... and sometimes blasphemy.

One could also suggest that Galli is voicing his disapproval of Trump rather than being an Evangelical and spreading the message of Christ; inserting politics into Christianity.

I watched bits and pieces of Trump's impeachment by the House and I listened to Glenn Beck who along with his team did some research into the validity of the claims by the House and the involvement by the past administration.  It was alarming. In a nutshell, clearly yet another witch hunt from the left.

Don't get me wrong, I've not been a 'fan' of Trump's.  I give him credit when I think he deserves it, but I've also voiced my disapproval numerous times.

I do however, also acknowledge what certainly seems an attempted coup (and I believe that's been in the works from day one) and the continual attempt by the leftists and RINO's to invalidate his presidency.  I also acknowledge the corruption that he has exposed as time goes on and this impeachment is their way of silencing him.

IMHO, I think we should be concerned going forward for any president.  The Constitution specifically outlines the parameters of impeachment; high crimes and misdemeanors. During the House hearings they did not lay out any high crimes, nor any misdemeanors, that were undisputedly proven or validated, or unbiased solid witness testimony; in fact, just the opposite.

Impeaching and removing a President that the people duly elected is very serious.  To do so because he is not liked (Reagan ring a bell?), because of the color of his skin, or the way he parts his hair, or his crass remarks, is not grounds for removal, nor is removing him for making progress in moving this country towards a more conservative agenda than the socialists and liberals would like.

I don't like his failures at the border, his addition to the deficit, his snide and crude remarks, and the pedestal that some people have placed him on.

In my books, in looking at what the Constitution states, that's not reason to remove him. If he is removed for other reasons than actually committing a crime, then this Republic has fallen and the Constitution has been made meaningless.

[musiclady]

One could also suggest that Galli is voicing his disapproval of Trump rather than being an Evangelical and spreading the message of Christ; inserting politics into Christianity.

I watched bits and pieces of Trump's impeachment by the House and I listened to Glenn Beck who along with his team did some research into the validity of the claims by the House and the involvement by the past administration.  It was alarming. In a nutshell, clearly yet another witch hunt from the left.

Don't get me wrong, I've not been a 'fan' of Trump's.  I give him credit when I think he deserves it, but I've also voiced my disapproval numerous times.

I do however, also acknowledge what certainly seems an attempted coup (and I believe that's been in the works from day one) and the continual attempt by the leftists and RINO's to invalidate his presidency.  I also acknowledge the corruption that he has exposed as time goes on and this impeachment is their way of silencing him.

IMHO, I think we should be concerned going forward for any president.  The Constitution specifically outlines the parameters of impeachment; high crimes and misdemeanors. During the House hearings they did not lay out any high crimes, nor any misdemeanors, that were undisputedly proven or validated, or unbiased solid witness testimony; in fact, just the opposite.

Impeaching and removing a President that the people duly elected is very serious.  To do so because he is not liked (Reagan ring a bell?), because of the color of his skin, or the way he parts his hair, or his crass remarks, is not grounds for removal, nor is removing him for making progress in moving this country towards a more conservative agenda than the socialists and liberals would like.

I don't like his failures at the border, his addition to the deficit, his snide and crude remarks, and the pedestal that some people have placed him on.

In my books, in looking at what the Constitution states, that's not reason to remove him. If he is removed for other reasons than actually committing a crime, then this Republic has fallen and the Constitution has been made meaningless.

I'm sorry to disagree so strongly with you from the top, but it is people who demand that others support Trump as a litmus test for their Christianity who have inserted politics into faith, and are in the wrong.

I have stated that I disagree with the editorial regarding impeachment (I do not believe Trump has committed an impeachable offense, and I despise.... DESPISE....... the left for what it has done in this kangaroo court, and even more that their defenders think they have taken the moral high ground in impeaching Trump). 

I am solely addressing the conflating of Evangelical Christianity with loyalty to Trump, which many, many so-called leaders have done.  It is decidedly unbiblical to demand allegiance to a politician as a requirement of being a "good" Christian, and that is what is being done.

Galli has been called all sorts of idiotic things for daring to defy the groupthink.  He is called evil.  He is called a heretic.....

By those whose POLITICS has become their FAITH.

If there is no room for free thought and discussion among serious Bible-believing, Christ-following Conservatives because of the demand for fealty to a human god, then there is nothing left to faith.

The Evangelical movement is self-destructing because of this...... and we will all live to see the negative results of what is happening.

[libertybele]

I'm sorry to disagree so strongly with you from the top, but it is people who demand that others support Trump as a litmus test for their Christianity who have inserted politics into faith, and are in the wrong.

I have stated that I disagree with the editorial regarding impeachment (I do not believe Trump has committed an impeachable offense, and I despise.... DESPISE....... the left for what it has done in this kangaroo court, and even more that their defenders think they have taken the moral high ground in impeaching Trump). 

I am solely addressing the conflating of Evangelical Christianity with loyalty to Trump, which many, many so-called leaders have done.  It is decidedly unbiblical to demand allegiance to a politician as a requirement of being a "good" Christian, and that is what is being done.

Galli has been called all sorts of idiotic things for daring to defy the groupthink.  He is called evil.  He is called a heretic.....

By those whose POLITICS has become their FAITH.

If there is no room for free thought and discussion among serious Bible-believing, Christ-following Conservatives because of the demand for fealty to a human god, then there is nothing left to faith.

The Evangelical movement is self-destructing because of this...... and we will all live to see the negative results of what is happening.

I believe that the Evangelical movement was self-destructing long before Trump came long; and I am basing that purely on my own experiences.  I believe organized religion is in trouble as well.  Yes, politics has entered heavily into both denominational and non-denominational churches and the push for globalization to fulfill an agenda, has no place.  Yes, by all means spread "The Word" but don't exploit those who the churches are supposedly trying to help.

[Cyber Liberty]

People who "love" Trump point the cult finger at people who "loathe" him, while people who "loathe" Trump point that same finger at people who "love" him.

These two conditions are not mutually exclusive, as my adventures as a Mod/Admin have taught me.  I'd estimate at least 90% of Briefers are not on either side, and don't consider anybody to be in any kind of a "cult."

[truth_seeker]

Trump hating subset of "Evangelical Christians," as "victims" of Trump's supporters?

It is good for some attention, apparently.



 

[musiclady]

I believe that the Evangelical movement was self-destructing long before Trump came long; and I am basing that purely on my own experiences.  I believe organized religion is in trouble as well.  Yes, politics has entered heavily into both denominational and non-denominational churches and the push for globalization to fulfill an agenda, has no place.  Yes, by all means spread "The Word" but don't exploit those who the churches are supposedly trying to help.

I completely agree that the Evangelical movement has been self-destructing for a while.  The dumbing down of the Church, the feel-good, entertaining, prosperity gospel pablum that's been fed for the past few decades has weakened the message of true grace and mercy because we are sinners.

Christians need to be involved in politics, but politics per se do not belong in the Church, especially when it is couched in loyalty to one man and any perceived disloyalty is treated as an abomination.  (It's happening).

Of course, the left took over mainstream Protestant Churches a century ago, and watered down the Gospel because of politics.  The Evangelical movement remained stronger longer, but now it has succumbed to the same pressures, and I believe it will destroy itself.

The Church seems to be strongest in places where it is most difficult to be Christian...... China, the Middle East, Africa.......

But in any case, the worst thing we can do is silence voices who speak up and say, THINK about what you're doing.

[musiclady]

People who "love" Trump point the cult finger at people who "loathe" him, while people who "loathe" Trump point that same finger at people who "love" him.

These two conditions are not mutually exclusive, as my adventures as a Mod/Admin have taught me.  I'd estimate at least 90% of Briefers are not on either side, and don't consider anybody to be in any kind of a "cult."

One can discuss life OUTSIDE TBR and bring up the clear cultish behavior of a faction of Trump followers without indicting those (or at least most) who voice support for Trump here.

It is a mistake to dismiss the cult-like behavior of certain people because it doesn't happen here. (Much).

It's happening......... and it's just as dangerous with Trump as it was and is with Obama.

[Cyber Liberty]

One can discuss life OUTSIDE TBR and bring up the clear cultish behavior of a faction of Trump followers without indicting those (or at least most) who voice support for Trump here.

It is a mistake to dismiss the cult-like behavior of certain people because it doesn't happen here. (Much).

It's happening......... and it's just as dangerous with Trump as it was and is with Obama.

I think you know I hear ya.  We've discussed this before.   

[musiclady]

I think you know I hear ya.  We've discussed this before.   

 

[FeelNoPain]

Trump hating subset of "Evangelical Christians," as "victims" of Trump's supporters?

It is good for some attention, apparently.

Is it the man they dislike or is it his behaviors?
Surely, most adults don't condone the inveterate lying, the endless self-aggrandizement, the childish taunting, the incessant whining--even if they agree with him on most policy.

I admit to being silly enough to often like the show ("what's he gonna say next?"--"who is he gonna insult next?"  "OH, NO he didn't just go there!") but I expected more from him.

[musiclady]

Is it the man they dislike or is it his behaviors?
Surely, most adults don't condone the inveterate lying, the endless self-aggrandizement, the childish taunting, the incessant whining--even if they agree with him on most policy.

I admit to being silly enough to often like the show ("what's he gonna say next?"--"who is he gonna insult next?"  "OH, NO he didn't just go there!") but I expected more from him.

It takes some discrimination to understand that one can agree with some policy decisions and still find the utter lack of integrity and decency spiritually troubling.

The world isn’t as black and white or simplistic as some perceive or would like it to be.

Any serious discussion is pooh poohed because their loyalty to a man overwhelms critical thinking skills.

[Cyber Liberty]

Is it the man they dislike or is it his behaviors?
Surely, most adults don't condone the inveterate lying, the endless self-aggrandizement, the childish taunting, the incessant whining--even if they agree with him on most policy.

I admit to being silly enough to often like the show ("what's he gonna say next?"--"who is he gonna insult next?"  "OH, NO he didn't just go there!") but I expected more from him.

I'm one of those goofs who don't care what he tweets, as long as he gets the big things correct, and it's better than .500 baseball so far.  On balance, I have no trouble "pulling the lever" (or drawing a line on the ballot) for Donald Trump next year.

[Cyber Liberty]

It takes some discrimination to understand that one can agree with some policy decisions and still find the utter lack of integrity and decency spiritually troubling.

The world isn’t as black and white or simplistic as some perceive or would like it to be.

Any serious discussion is pooh poohed because their loyalty to a man overwhelms critical thinking skills.

I try not to associate myself with the extremes of either side, because that's toxic to this guy.  I have enough headaches.  That said, I'm glad I moved to a place that's 3:1 Republican.  I could walk around here with a MAGA hat (I don't), without fear of being attacked.

[musiclady]

I'm one of those goofs who don't care what he tweets, as long as he gets the big things correct, and it's better than .500 baseball so far.  On balance, I have no trouble "pulling the lever" (or drawing a line on the ballot) for Donald Trump next year.

So you can be one of those who understands that, on balance, the lack of integrity makes it impossible for some to pull that lever next, soon to be this year.

[Cyber Liberty]

So you can be one of those who understands that, on balance, the lack of integrity makes it impossible for some to pull that lever next, soon to be this year.

That is 100% correct, @musiclady!  I think my posting record on that is clean.

[musiclady]

I try not to associate myself with the extremes of either side, because that's toxic to this guy.  I have enough headaches.  That said, I'm glad I moved to a place that's 3:1 Republican.  I could walk around here with a MAGA hat (I don't), without fear of being attacked.

I have never observed anything in you that resembles the few around here who seem to be allergic to thoughts they disagree with or who become incensed and scream “Hater!!!!” When others calmly bring up valid points that they can’t handle.

That’s why I like you!!   

[musiclady]

That is 100% correct, @musiclady!  I think my posting record on that is clean.

And I have many ‘real life’ friends and family who have made the same decision as you have....

[FeelNoPain]

I'm one of those goofs who don't care what he tweets, as long as he gets the big things correct, and it's better than .500 baseball so far.  On balance, I have no trouble "pulling the lever" (or drawing a line on the ballot) for Donald Trump next year.

I don't care what Donald Trump, Reality TV Show Star, tweets, but I do care what he tweets as the President of the United States. If my daughter's first grade teacher sent me a note home stating that she is a teacher with "great and unmatched wisdom" I would believe her to be unwell and would be in the principal's office the next day requesting a meeting. Why do we have a lower standard of behavior for the POTUS?

[PeteS in CA]

I don't care what Donald Trump, Reality TV Show Star, tweets, but I do care what he tweets as the President of the United States. If my daughter's first grade teacher sent me a note home stating that she is a teacher with "great and unmatched wisdom" I would believe her to be unwell and would be in the principal's office the next day requesting a meeting. Why do we have a lower standard of behavior for the POTUS?

So, Presidents aren't allowed to be sarcastic (as Trump was) and self-mocking? Or maybe he was being scarcastic and mocking people who hate him. Either way, is Trump allowed to have a sense of humor?

Maybe understanding context, metaphor, hyperbole, and sarcasm instead of taking everything dead-literally would be worth trying.