Another Way for Immigration Reform? How Evangelicals Can Help Lead It

[Chosen Daughter]

November 9, 2019 Culture
Another Way for Immigration Reform? How Evangelicals Can Help Lead It
Evangelical Call for Restitution-Based Immigration Reform allows evangelicals to voice their support.
Matthew Soerens

This August, after more than three decades in the United States, 66-year-old pastor’s wife Julita Bartolome was deported.

Her U.S. citizen husband, a Baptist pastor and a custodian at Chicago’s Moody Bible Institute, had been trying since 2002 to get his wife permanent legal status. Now separated from his wife by an ocean, he intends to keep trying to get her back.

The case has many troubled, particularly among the evangelical community, of which Julita and her husband are a part. Many are asking if there is a better way than this.

They’re not alone in asking this question. One local church in the heart of the Bible Belt recently lost 150 congregants to an immigration raid. Another town – Morristown, Tennessee – found itself deeply shaken in the aftermath of a 2018 raid. Many of its residents are evangelical Christians who voted for President Trump despite – or even because of – his harsh rhetoric on immigration. Yet the raid complicated and colored their perspective.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2019/november/another-way-for-immigration-reform-how-evangelicals-can-hel.html

The plan:

Evangelical Call for Restitution-Based
Immigration Reform

Guided by these biblical teachings, we urge our elected officials to act in ways guided by the following principles:

We support solutions to the problem of immigrants being in our country illegally that strengthen the rule of law while making both the law and its enforcement more responsive to our needs and values.

We recognize that the law has in many cases not worked well, has been inconsistently enforced, and has been violated both by the immigrants present without authorization and by the employers who employ them without authorization.

We support a process of restitution (not amnesty) where violation of law is admitted to and significant fines/penalties are paid by immigrants (in installments over a period of seven years) who came illegally (or overstayed a visa) as adults, leading to a pathway to Legal Permanent Residency if qualifications are met. Immigrants who were brought to the US unlawfully or overstayed a visa as children (Dreamers) would go through a process where they can get onto a pathway to Legal Permanent Residency if qualifications are met.

We encourage fairness to taxpayers by requiring that all immigrants be self-sufficient, work, pay taxes, and be productive, or be in families and households that are doing so.

We encourage our government to establish a secure border and an efficient and orderly process of immigration.

http://evangelicalimmigrationtable.com/evangelical-call-for-restitution-based-immigration-reform/

[Chosen Daughter]

Recently something was posted here about the people waiting in Mexico who are being raped and kidnapped.  I think what is missing from Trumps immigration and this Evangelical plan is the reason why these people want to leave their countries.

I do not believe that we can continue to look the other way while Mexico falls further into the hands of Cartel.  As more of our families fall victim to drugs and gang violence.  There is a Cartel business in Mexico and the government has lost control of the law there.  I was criticized because I recently commented that I was hoping Trump would do something to help Mexico.  Some of us only live feet, yards, miles from drug violence on the other side of the border.  And it is here.  Here in our own country creating poverty, addiction, violence and community failure of catastrophic levels. 

We must go to the heart of the problem and unfortunately it is to stop drug and human trafficking.  We need to pray too.  Pray continuously that God will heal our land of this crime hold enslaving our children, friends and relatives.  Enslaving us to communities without hope for a future.  Praying that we can use our laws and enforce them to benefit U.S. citizens and get a hold of these problems related to Cartel.

I totally agree with much of this Evangelical Immigration reform.  Lets discuss it.

[bilo]

This August, after more than three decades in the United States, 66-year-old pastor’s wife Julita Bartolome was deported.


I went to the link and scanned the article to try and find out why this lady was deported. She is married to an American. However, as what seems to be the norm in "journalism" today no details about why the action was taken was given just the emotional misfortune.

The flip side to the crack down on the 40 million illegals in this country is wages have been rising for American workers and welfare programs have seen decreases in demand.

[Chosen Daughter]

This August, after more than three decades in the United States, 66-year-old pastor’s wife Julita Bartolome was deported.


I went to the link and scanned the article to try and find out why this lady was deported. She is married to an American. However, as what seems to be the norm in "journalism" today no details about why the action was taken was given just the emotional misfortune.

The flip side to the crack down on the 40 million illegals in this country is wages have been rising for American workers and welfare programs have seen decreases in demand.

Totally agree.  The plan addresses that also.  That they need to be self sufficient and that we need to secure the border.  I don't know how many live in sanctuary cities but many are dependent on the taxpayer even though they own their own businesses, work for fair manufacturing wages.....etc.  We need to close all these loopholes that encourage people to come for free stuff.  We want people to come because they are seeking asylum from real issues.  Not because its a better life on welfare.  We should be deporting people with deportation orders.  I would never fully agree that just because they are here they should be able to pay restitution.  If they have been breaking the law here, or don't want to support their own families they should be deported.  Whatever the plan it has to weed out criminals and people who have no desire to become Americans, work hard and support their own families.

[libertybele]

Recently something was posted here about the people waiting in Mexico who are being raped and kidnapped.  I think what is missing from Trumps immigration and this Evangelical plan is the reason why these people want to leave their countries.

I do not believe that we can continue to look the other way while Mexico falls further into the hands of Cartel.  As more of our families fall victim to drugs and gang violence.  There is a Cartel business in Mexico and the government has lost control of the law there.  I was criticized because I recently commented that I was hoping Trump would do something to help Mexico.  Some of us only live feet, yards, miles from drug violence on the other side of the border.  And it is here.  Here in our own country creating poverty, addiction, violence and community failure of catastrophic levels. 

We must go to the heart of the problem and unfortunately it is to stop drug and human trafficking.  We need to pray too.  Pray continuously that God will heal our land of this crime hold enslaving our children, friends and relatives.  Enslaving us to communities without hope for a future.  Praying that we can use our laws and enforce them to benefit U.S. citizens and get a hold of these problems related to Cartel.

I totally agree with much of this Evangelical Immigration reform.  Lets discuss it.

Drug and human trafficking has been going on for decades.  Mexico needs to address and resolve their own problems, including the cartel.  Lots of $$ is being made on both sides of the border. 

I don't know if you had read my post(s) awhile back but the UN is actually involved in the corruption of human trafficking.  Watch the movie "The Whistleblower" (based on a true story) and it will give you an idea of how widespread this problem is.

Yes, prayers, prayers, prayers for this country and stopping human and drug smuggling.  Prayers up also for this President to give him the wisdom and the strength to continue to lead this country in a positive way and to find a way around the corruption within our government.




www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ5CxJM2z7c

[Chosen Daughter]

Drug and human trafficking has been going on for decades.  Mexico needs to address and resolve their own problems, including the cartel.  Lots of $$ is being made on both sides of the border. 

I don't know if you had read my post(s) awhile back but the UN is actually involved in the corruption of human trafficking.  Watch the movie "The Whistleblower" (based on a true story) and it will give you an idea of how widespread this problem is.

Yes, prayers, prayers, prayers for this country and stopping human and drug smuggling.  Prayers up also for this President to give him the wisdom and the strength to continue to lead this country in a positive way and to find a way around the corruption within our government.






www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ5CxJM2z7c

I have seen that movie.  I know that its widespread.  But if we can send troops across the ocean to protect oil we surely can start protecting our own country from the Cartel business.

We are never going to stop illegal immigration if people's families are being hacked up and left with signs of warning in the cities and townships of Mexico.  We can't stop it if Cartels are making money trafficking drugs and smuggling humans into this country for profit.  I don't know about you but I don't want my state to be overwhelmed by Cartel business.  And it is already.  Its in every single major city.

So I don't know how we can say Mexico needs to solve their own problems.  President Trumps Friend Andrés Manuel López Obrador intends on doing nothing about Cartel.  Across the border they are finding mass graves.  If you ever want a gruesome wake up call google Cartel violence, murders...….in images. You will find body parts placed out in the open with warning messages.  You will see mass graves.

Knowing the nature of the business and that America borders with Mexico I can't imagine that Mexico's current situation is not our destiny if not stopped.

[libertybele]

I have seen that movie.  I know that its widespread.  But if we can send troops across the ocean to protect oil we surely can start protecting our own country from the Cartel business.

I agree.  However, because of the amount of money made in drug smuggling the 'war on drugs' has been going on for decades, and there are those in bed on both sides of the border with the Cartel.  It was reported earlier this year that members of our own border patrol are corrupt, so the problem isn't so cut and dry and easily remedied. 

I never ever imagined that the UN, the very entity that is supposed to be helping people would be so corrupt and knee deep in human smuggling -- so -- other than getting out of the UN (which I am all for) how do we remedy this situation? I don't know for sure, but I would also bet that members of the UN are also involved in aiding the Mexican cartel.

I'm all for prayer and helping people, but many churches are condoning and inviting 'illegals' into this country. I don't know if this is still true, but during the Bammy years the gov't was paying churches to 'house' and place illegals around our country.

So again, not easily remedied.  As you know we have members of Congress who are fighting this President every step of the way to ensure that he fails on these issues.

[Chosen Daughter]

I agree.  However, because of the amount of money made in drug smuggling the 'war on drugs' has been going on for decades, and there are those in bed on both sides of the border with the Cartel.  It was reported earlier this year that members of our own border patrol are corrupt, so the problem isn't so cut and dry and easily remedied. 

I never ever imagined that the UN, the very entity that is supposed to be helping people would be so corrupt and knee deep in human smuggling -- so -- other than getting out of the UN (which I am all for) how do we remedy this situation? I don't know for sure, but I would also bet that members of the UN are also involved in aiding the Mexican cartel.

I'm all for prayer and helping people, but many churches are condoning and inviting 'illegals' into this country. I don't know if this is still true, but during the Bammy years the gov't was paying churches to 'house' and place illegals around our country.

So again, not easily remedied.  As you know we have members of Congress who are fighting this President every step of the way to ensure that he fails on these issues.

I modified my message above so take a look.  I agree it isn't easy but we must address it because our own country will end up just like Mexico.  War on drug was a failure.  That is how we got where we are now.  First before we can stop it we have to admit we have a problem  People should be aware of the criminals in our prison systems.  People need to be aware of the Cartel in our neighborhoods.  And we must label these people terrorists.  If they are connected to the Cartel they are terrorists.

Not easy, is not easy.  But to do nothing seal the fate of this country.  Seriously.  I know it sounds severe but all you have to do is look at the neighbor to the south.  And instead of swiss cheese wall we should acknowledge that the Mexican president is not friend to US, but is friend to Cartel by his inaction.

[roamer_1]

I never ever imagined that the UN, the very entity that is supposed to be helping people would be so corrupt and knee deep in human smuggling [...]

Really? I am surprised at that... All government is corrupt. All of it. By it's nature. In the American way of thinking, the more it grows in power, and the further it gets from the hand of the people, the more corrupt it becomes. The UN is the very epitome of vast unrepresentative power, far, far from the hand of the people. It should be more than expected that it would be corrupt by its very nature.

Same with the Federal government. The problem, as always, is that the behemoth has been allowed to grow powerful enough to be unafraid of the people. And that is also why this administration is a waste of time...

[truth_seeker]

Americans and others, consume lotsa drugs from Mexico.

Americans and others,  consume lotsa vacations, travel, hotels,  and 2nd homes, in Rosarito, Ensenada, Cabo, La Paz,  Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, Cancun, etc.

Americans and others cnsume lotsa ag products, from Mexico. Several makers produce vehicles in Mexico for world markets incl. the US.

Sportfishing, cruises.

Each of us individually are free to boycott any product/serviceEl Paso, Juarez.
I haven't been to Mexico since about 84-85.

We have relatives that had a mobile home in an "American" park, in Rosarito. In a few years, vandalism drove them out. Just abandoned their stuff, and drove away.

OTOH I have known people for years, that lived full time, in Ensenada and in Puerto Vallarta.

Most people that I know in SoCal have family/friends intermarried with Hispanics and Asians.

 

[Chosen Daughter]

Americans and others, consume lotsa drugs from Mexico.

Americans and others,  consume lotsa vacations, travel, hotels,  and 2nd homes, in Rosarito, Ensenada, Cabo, La Paz,  Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, Cancun, etc.

Americans and others cnsume lotsa ag products, from Mexico. Several makers produce vehicles in Mexico for world markets incl. the US.

Sportfishing, cruises.

Each of us individually are free to boycott any product/serviceEl Paso, Juarez.
I haven't been to Mexico since about 84-85.

We have relatives that had a mobile home in an "American" park, in Rosarito. In a few years, vandalism drove them out. Just abandoned their stuff, and drove away.

OTOH I have known people for years, that lived full time, in Ensenada and in Puerto Vallarta.

Most people that I know in SoCal have family/friends intermarried with Hispanics and Asians.

I am sorry, I ambushed my own thread about immigration reform.  Because I think that Cartel business drives illegal border activity and it drives people to leave their own country.  But how did you feel about Evangelicals plan for immigration?

As for lots of people consuming drugs and living in Mexico.  So they do.  That isn't an excuse to let drug dealers deal drugs.  It just allows the problem to grow.  Like giving needles to drug addicts.  People live in Mexico.  Yes they do.  It is beautiful if you can ignore the heads hanging on the fence posts.


close

LEVIN NUNES Fox News clip 11-17-19
The slaughter of at least nine Americans – including six children – at the hands of cartel gunmen in northern Mexico is the latest massacre pushing back against the Mexican president’s unclear security strategy of “hugs not bullets.”

President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador used the catchy phrase – “abrazos, no balazos” in Spanish – in his promise to clear out violent drug cartels, not by waging war, but instead changing communities by tackling what he said is the root of the problem: extreme poverty.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexican-president-hugs-not-bullets-security-deadly-violence

The Mexican president is backwards.  Drugs and Cartel cause extreme poverty, unless you are the Cartel.

[Chosen Daughter]

Morelia (Mexico) (AFP) - President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador defended his strategy Tuesday for fighting the violent crime wracking Mexico, as relatives mourned 13 police officers killed in an ambush claimed by a powerful drug cartel, while a separate shootout left 15 dead.

Relatives of the 13 slain police officers killed on Monday sobbed over their coffins at a shared funeral service in the Michoacan state capital, Morelia, some holding their now-fatherless babies over the dark brown caskets.

Meanwhile on Tuesday, 14 civilians and a soldier were killed in the southern state of Guerrero after a group of armed civilians attacked security forces, state security spokesman Roberto Alvarez told AFP.

The shootout in the southern state where drug gangs violently defend trafficking routes began when an anonymous caller told authorities that an armed group was present in the Tepochica community of the Iguala municipality, the spokesperson said...

https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-leader-defends-security-plan-families-mourn-slain-010359394.html

Can we expect people to stop coming under these circumstances?  Trump needs to put pressure on the Mexican President.  And we should help if he allows it.  If he doesn't we should step up apprehensions of drug Cartel here and send them home.

[libertybele]

Morelia (Mexico) (AFP) - President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador defended his strategy Tuesday for fighting the violent crime wracking Mexico, as relatives mourned 13 police officers killed in an ambush claimed by a powerful drug cartel, while a separate shootout left 15 dead.

Relatives of the 13 slain police officers killed on Monday sobbed over their coffins at a shared funeral service in the Michoacan state capital, Morelia, some holding their now-fatherless babies over the dark brown caskets.

Meanwhile on Tuesday, 14 civilians and a soldier were killed in the southern state of Guerrero after a group of armed civilians attacked security forces, state security spokesman Roberto Alvarez told AFP.

The shootout in the southern state where drug gangs violently defend trafficking routes began when an anonymous caller told authorities that an armed group was present in the Tepochica community of the Iguala municipality, the spokesperson said...

https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-leader-defends-security-plan-families-mourn-slain-010359394.html

Can we expect people to stop coming under these circumstances?  Trump needs to put pressure on the Mexican President.  And we should help if he allows it.  If he doesn't we should step up apprehensions of drug Cartel here and send them home.

I thought that was the whole idea of the tariffs set to be imposed next year on Mexico.  What ideally needs to happen is Mexico needs to secure their southern most border.  I'm not really familiar with the action or lack thereof taken by Trump against the cartel. 

Running, drugs, guns and humans is big money and there is no way to completely shut that down. Remember; the Bammy administration was involved in operation "Fast and Furious" which was running guns...so...how do you in turn, tell Mexico that they need to take control over the cartel?   Also remember that our current DOJ is not without corruption. 

Just because President Trump may sign and e.o. or direct those within Homeland Security/border patrol, doesn't mean that those who are corrupt will comply.  He may try to make a 'deal' or pressure Mexico, but that doesn't mean they will comply.  Congress certainly isn't backing him up either, as a solid wall would help.  Instead as you know they are trying to impeach him because he is making some progress.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/world/americas/operation-fast-and-furious-fast-facts/index.html

[Chosen Daughter]

I thought that was the whole idea of the tariffs set to be imposed next year on Mexico.  What ideally needs to happen is Mexico needs to secure their southern most border.  I'm not really familiar with the action or lack thereof taken by Trump against the cartel. 

Running, drugs, guns and humans is big money and there is no way to completely shut that down. Remember; the Bammy administration was involved in operation "Fast and Furious" which was running guns...so...how do you in turn, tell Mexico that they need to take control over the cartel?   Also remember that our current DOJ is not without corruption. 

Just because President Trump may sign and e.o. or direct those within Homeland Security/border patrol, doesn't mean that those who are corrupt will comply.  He may try to make a 'deal' or pressure Mexico, but that doesn't mean they will comply.  Congress certainly isn't backing him up either, as a solid wall would help.  Instead as you know they are trying to impeach him because he is making some progress.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/world/americas/operation-fast-and-furious-fast-facts/index.html

I don't know of any tariffs except the ones Trump threatened for the Mexican President to reduce the flow of illegal immigrants.  He did reduce the flow if they are reporting numbers correctly, but they are still coming just waiting in Mexico.  That is what I meant when I talked about a post on this site from PBS saying they are being raped and kidnapped.  So the policies are most probably benefitting human trafficking rings.  Cartels.

We most certainly can do something.  Trump could do something.  Just because Obama was involved in fast and furious doesn't make us destined to a life of Cartel crime.  It is in the interest of the U.S. Mexico and Latin America to tackle these issues.  The only other alternative is surrender to the criminal empire of human smuggling and drug rings operated by the Mexican Cartel.  And reading your post does not give any hope for the future of America or our children and grandchildren's future.

First and foremost our government needs to designate Cartel as terrorists.  Then they need to go after them relentlessly right here in the U.S.  And since Trump wants other countries to pay for their terrorists Mexico should be made to pay.  No trade deal until there is a united plan to tackle Cartel terrorism in Mexico and right here in the U.S.A.

And rout out any bad players connected to criminals working in our law enforcement.  Border Patrol.

[libertybele]

I don't know of any tariffs except the ones Trump threatened for the Mexican President to reduce the flow of illegal immigrants.  He did reduce the flow if they are reporting numbers correctly, but they are still coming just waiting in Mexico.  That is what I meant when I talked about a post on this site from PBS saying they are being raped and kidnapped.  So the policies are most probably benefitting human trafficking rings.  Cartels.

We most certainly can do something.  Trump could do something.  Just because Obama was involved in fast and furious doesn't make us destined to a life of Cartel crime.  It is in the interest of the U.S. Mexico and Latin America to tackle these issues.  The only other alternative is surrender to the criminal empire of human smuggling and drug rings operated by the Mexican Cartel.  And reading your post does not give any hope for the future of America or our children and grandchildren's future.

First and foremost our government needs to designate Cartel as terrorists.  Then they need to go after them relentlessly right here in the U.S.  And since Trump wants other countries to pay for their terrorists Mexico should be made to pay.  No trade deal until there is a united plan to tackle Cartel terrorism in Mexico and right here in the U.S.A.

And rout out any bad players connected to criminals working in our law enforcement.  Border Patrol.

There was an attempt to classify the Cartel as terrorists -- not sure what the outcome was.

Republicans to push Pompeo to classify drug cartels as terrorists

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/republicans-to-push-pompeo-to-classify-drug-cartels-as-terrorists

[libertybele]

I hear what you are saying @Chosen Daughter but again the problem lies with the massive corruption on both sides.  Until that corruption is exposed and curtailed, the problem isn't going to go away anytime soon.  I'm sure President Trump is aware of the corruption, but the problem for him is how he remedies the situation.  He's only one person -- with have 535 members of Congress that need to assist him and they aren't and I would lay odds that some are making $$ off of the situation.