Author Topic: Supreme Court allows Sandy Hook families to sue gunmaker Remington over its AR-15 used by shooter  (Read 1899 times)

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Offline Elderberry

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American Military News  November 12, 2019 Laura Widener

Supreme Court allows Sandy Hook families to sue gunmaker Remington over its AR-15 used by school shooter

The U.S. Supreme Court has decided to allow families of Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting victims to sue Remington Arms, the manufacturer of the AR-15 rifle used in the deadly 2012 shooting that left 26 dead.

The lawsuit alleges that Remington shouldn’t have sold the Bushmaster AR-15 rifle to the public, and that Remington’s marketing for the gun illegally targeted “younger, at risk-males in marketing and product placement in violent video games,” according to the Associated Press.

Remington had argued that they should be afforded protection from a 2005 federal law that protects gun makers from litigation if their products are used to commit a crime, but the justices rejected that argument.

More: https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/11/supreme-court-allows-sandy-hook-families-to-sue-gunmaker-remington-over-its-ar-15-used-by-school-shooter/

Offline Elderberry

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https://apnews.com/8755008e727a4a1b804cdf5cf03ab620

By MARK SHERMAN and DAVE COLLINS 11/12/2019

Quote
The lawsuit says the Madison, North Carolina-based company should never have sold a weapon as dangerous as the Bushmaster AR-15-style rifle to the general public. It also alleges Remington targeted younger, at-risk males in marketing and product placement in violent video games.

Offline mountaineer

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The lawsuit says the Madison, North Carolina-based company should never have sold a weapon as dangerous as the Bushmaster AR-15-style rifle to the general public.

Volkswagen never should have sold a vehicle as dangerous as the Touran to the general public.
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Offline Sighlass

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Hold it, thought we now had conservatives that dismissed these silly suit from consideration on the court? Guess they weren't as conservative as touted.
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Offline skeeter

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What was the split? Was this one of those 'precedents' Roberts is supposedly at loath to overturn?

Offline EdJames

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Volkswagen never should have sold a vehicle as dangerous as the Touran to the general public.

 888high58888

Offline Elderberry

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What was the split? Was this one of those 'precedents' Roberts is supposedly at loath to overturn?

"The justices did not include any comment about the case"

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/12/778487920/supreme-court-allows-sandy-hook-families-case-against-remington-to-proceed

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The Supreme Court has denied Remington Arms Co.'s bid to block a lawsuit filed by families of victims of the Sandy Hook school massacre. The families say Remington should be held liable, as the maker and promoter of the AR-15-style rifle used in the 2012 killings.

The court opted not to hear the gun-maker's appeal, in a decision that was announced Tuesday morning. The justices did not include any comment about the case, Remington Arms Co. v. Soto, as they turned it away.

Remington had appealed to the highest federal court after the Connecticut Supreme Court allowed the Sandy Hook lawsuit to proceed in March. In recent court filings, Remington says the case "presents a nationally important question" about U.S. gun laws — namely, how to interpret the 2005 Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which grants broad immunity to gun-makers and dealers from prosecution over crimes committed with their products.

Offline Sighlass

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This will kill gun manufacturers.... absolutely kill them... and if the left gets away with this ammo will be next to be lawyered and courted to death.

These squishy Catholic conservative SCOTUS justices that were shoved down our throats have been a joke.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 12:06:21 am by Sighlass »
Exodus 18:21 Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders over ....

Online Smokin Joe

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The suit is insane. Suppose the stolen weapon allegedly used in the massacre had been stolen from an official agency instead of a private citizen. Would that have been any better? Suppose it had been handmade in someone's shop?

This is just a deep pocket probing expedition.
The product was sold to someone who did not misuse it.

The product was stolen.

The product was misused, in ways contrary to the instructions given with every firearm for safety.

Next up: Stanley tools for claw hammer attacks, and box cutter manufacturers for 9/11....
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline mountaineer

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Quote
a weapon as dangerous as the Bushmaster AR-15-style rifle
As if other firearms couldn't be "dangerous" if used for malicious purposes.
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Offline txradioguy

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The Supreme Court refused Tuesday to shield a major arms manufacturer from potential liability in the 2012 school shooting that left 26 students and educators dead in Newtown, Conn.

The justices' action allows a lawsuit filed by parents of Sandy Hook Elementary School victims to move forward at the state level, on the allegation that Remington Arms Co. marketed the military-style rifle used in the mass shooting "for use in assaults against human beings."

The case tests the reach of a 2005 law passed by Congress to protect firearms manufacturers from being held liable for crimes committed by gun purchasers. That law was hailed by the National Rifle Association, but it included exceptions, including one for violating rules related to marketing and advertising.

Gun control advocates have said a victory by the families in the long-running dispute could lead to more lawsuits and damaging disclosures involving the firearms industry.

Josh Koskoff, an attorney representing the families, said the lawsuit now can proceed to "shed light on Remington’s profit-driven strategy to expand the AR-15 market and court high-risk users at the expense of Americans’ safety."

Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., the state's former attorney general, tweeted: "Newtown families will now have their day in court – access to basic justice – against companies that wrongly sold & promoted assault weapons."

The Connecticut Supreme Court ruled 4-3 in March that Remington can be sued because of the way the AR-15-style Bushmaster rifle was marketed. The families' lawsuit contends that Remington glorified the gun in advertising aimed at young people, including in violent video games.   

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/12/supreme-court-sandy-hook-lawsuit-gun-manufacturer-proceed/2565344001/
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline txradioguy

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Thank God the Supreme Court has been stacked in our favor.   *****rollingeyes*****
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline thackney

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Performance car manufactures should be getting nervous.
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Offline sneakypete

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Are they also going to sue his mother and father for creating him?

The manufacturer of the car he drove to the shooting?

The shoes he wore?
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Offline roamer_1

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Thank God the Supreme Court has been stacked in our favor.   *****rollingeyes*****

IKnowRite?

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Online Smokin Joe

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It doesn't matter who it was marketed to if the product wasn't purchased by the one who misused it, does it?

Adam Lanza stole his mother's rifle, IIRC.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline truth_seeker

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It doesn't matter who it was marketed to if the product wasn't purchased by the one who misused it, does it?

Adam Lanza stole his mother's rifle, IIRC.
I recall she bought it with him using it for target shooting, or something like that.
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Online Smokin Joe

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I recall she bought it with him using it for target shooting, or something like that.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting

Although Lanza had no criminal record, and
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Under Connecticut law at the time,[23] the 20-year-old Lanza was old enough to carry a long gun, such as a rifle or shotgun,[24] but too young to own or carry handguns.[25] The guns he used had been purchased legally by his mother.
Purchasing a firearm with the intent of passing it to someone else (as opposed to owning it yourself) is the definition of a straw purchase, and if done to give the firearm to someone who cannot legally own one, is illegal, in and of itself.

There remains the question of whether he should have had access to firearms:

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Investigators evaluated Lanza's body, looking for evidence of drugs or medication through toxicology tests.[107] Unusually for an investigation of this type, DNA testing of Lanza was utilized.[108][109] The results of the toxicology report were published in October 2013, and stated that no alcohol or drugs were found in his system.[110] Lanza's autopsy showed no tumors or gross deformities in his brain.[

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Report of the Office of the Child Advocate

The Report of the Office of the Child Advocate concluded: "There was not one thing that was necessarily the tipping point driving Lanza to commit the Sandy Hook shooting. Rather there was a cascade of events, many self-imposed, that included: loss of school; absence of work; disruption of the relationship with his one friend; virtually no personal contact with family; virtually total and increasing isolation; fear of losing his home and of a change in his relationship with Mrs. Lanza, his only caretaker and connection; worsening OCD; depression and anxiety; profound and possibly worsening anorexia; and an increasing obsession with mass murder occurring in the total absence of any engagement with the outside world. Adam increasingly lived in an alternate universe in which ruminations about mass shootings were his central preoccupation".[131]

The authors also noted that despite multiple developmental and mental health problems, Lanza had not received adequate mental health treatment. They wrote: "It is fair to surmise that, had Lanza's mental illness been adequately treated in the last years of his life, one predisposing factor to the tragedy of Sandy Hook might have been mitigated".[132]

The report also tentatively disagreed with the conclusions of the State Attorney about why Lanza targeted Sandy Hook. They noted that "According to the FBI, shooters are likely to target places or people that are familiar to them ... The elementary school may have been targeted because he could overpower people, a dynamic that is very important for mass shooters as they do not want to be thwarted".[131] [18]

Other statements about the already bad and deteriorating mental health of Adam Lanza would preclude his passing a NICS check, if that information was available in the database. In short, he would not have been able to purchase such a firearm, or any firearm on his own, given his mental health history.

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Lanza was treated by Robert King, who recommended extensive support be put in place and prescribed the antidepressant Celexa. He took the medication for three days. His mother Nancy reported: "On the third morning he complained of dizziness. By that afternoon he was disoriented, his speech was disjointed, he couldn't even figure out how to open his cereal box. He was sweating profusely ... it was actually dripping off his hands. He said he couldn't think ... He was practically vegetative".[142] He never took the medication again.[154] A report from the Office of the Child Advocate found that

    Yale's recommendations for extensive special education supports, ongoing expert consultation, and rigorous therapeutic supports embedded into (Lanza's) daily life went largely unheeded.[149]

In a 2013 interview, Peter Lanza said he suspected his son might have also suffered from undiagnosed schizophrenia in addition to his other conditions. Lanza said that family members might have missed signs of the onset of schizophrenia and psychotic behavior during his son's adolescence because they mistakenly attributed his odd behavior and increasing isolation to Asperger syndrome.[148][142][155][156][157] Because of concerns that published accounts of Lanza's autism could result in a backlash against others with the condition, autism advocates campaigned to clarify that autism is a brain-related developmental disorder rather than a mental illness.[158] The violence Lanza demonstrated in the shooting is generally not seen in the autistic population[159] and none of the psychiatrists he saw detected troubling signs of violence in his disposition.[142]

Lanza appears to have had no contact with mental health providers after 2006.

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Before driving to the school, he shot and killed his mother at their Newtown home.

The firearms Adam Lanza took, which he did not own (and likely could not, considering his mental health problems), belonged to his mother. Regardless of her motives or response to marketing schemes, she was not the one who killed people, although there can be made arguments that would question her permitting him access and not making sure he pursued the options available for such treatment as he needed to keep him on a more even keel, mentally.

Any response by him to marketing campaigns for the Bushmaster Rifle is moot. He didn't purchase, nor did he own the firearm used in the murders.

Consider that if the court rules that Remington is responsible, then any manufacturer of any firearm which has been stolen and used in a crime could conceivably be held liable for the actions of any shooter who received that stolen firearm and committed a crime with it because of some supposed response to a marketing campaign, a campaign which NEVER advocates the irresponsible or criminal use of such products.
The survivors have already gone after the Lanza estate (without regard for the surviving son).
The case should have been dismissed.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 04:50:17 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Fishrrman

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The Court didn't "rule" on anything yet.
The case in question -- as yet -- has not been tried.

All the Court did was refuse the appeal to it -- probably appropriate at this point in time. There isn't much to "appeal" yet.

I'll predict that Remington will lose in the trial court.
After all, it's Connecticut.
Perhaps on the first level of appeal, as well.

So eventually, this is going to come before the Supreme Court again.

Offline sneakypete

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The Court didn't "rule" on anything yet.
The case in question -- as yet -- has not been tried.

All the Court did was refuse the appeal to it -- probably appropriate at this point in time. There isn't much to "appeal" yet.

I'll predict that Remington will lose in the trial court.
After all, it's Connecticut.
Perhaps on the first level of appeal, as well.

So eventually, this is going to come before the Supreme Court again.

@Fishrrman

Didn't they move manufacturing to NC several years ago? That sure ain't going to help then with a Ct jury,even if the headquarters is still in Ct,the jobs aren't.

Then again,if they insist on living in and operating out of Ct,they SHOULD suffer.
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Online Smokin Joe

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@Fishrrman

Didn't they move manufacturing to NC several years ago? That sure ain't going to help then with a Ct jury,even if the headquarters is still in Ct,the jobs aren't.

Then again,if they insist on living in and operating out of Ct,they SHOULD suffer.
On the other hand, they have the option of moving out whatever of the Company remains in CT now. If they moved the manufacturing to NC, they already have an established beach head in a more sane state.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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On the other hand, they have the option of moving out whatever of the Company remains in CT now. If they moved the manufacturing to NC, they already have an established beach head in a more sane state.

@Smokin Joe

I have chemo brain,and my memory now sucks. I THINK I remember reading about them moving production to NC,but could very easily be wrong.

The safe rule to follow for the time being is to question pretty much everything I claim to "remember".
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Online Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe

I have chemo brain,and my memory now sucks. I THINK I remember reading about them moving production to NC,but could very easily be wrong.

The safe rule to follow for the time being is to question pretty much everything I claim to "remember".
Well, I checked, @sneakypete , and your brain isn't as shot as you think.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2014/05/16/americas-oldest-gun-maker-thumbs-its-nose-at-a-two-faced-senator/#70c243252da2
Quote
Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY) lost his “assault weapons” jobs. Remington Outdoor Company (ROC) announced it’s moving its Bushmaster rifle and Remington Model 1911 pistol production lines from its nearly 200-year-old plant in Ilion, New York, to its new facility in much more gun-rights-friendly Huntsville, Alabama.

In March of 2011 Senator Schumer put a press release on his website boasting: “Today, U.S. Senator Charles E. Schumer joined Remington officials and plant employees to announce that Bushmaster Firearms is relocating a manufacturing facility from Windham, Maine to Ilion, NY, bringing over forty new jobs to Central New York in the process. Schumer has been a long-time supporter of manufacturing at the Remington plant, urging top Army officials to open up competition for the Army’s small arms contracts to other U.S. manufacturers and domestic producers across the country like the Ilion, New York-based Remington. Today, Schumer applauded Remington’s decision to add new jobs to the productive and capable work force already making the factory an economic powerhouse in the Mohawk Valley.”

https://www.al.com/sports/2014/04/gun_manufacturers_move_south_r.html
Quote
Remington moved its corporate headquarters to North Carolina in 1995, and the new Alabama plant will be the company's third in the region.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis


Online Smokin Joe

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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis