Stripping church-state separation to the bone? The Supreme Court considers mandatory government fun

[Elderberry]

SCOTUSblog by Daniel Mach 9/19/2019

Symposium: Stripping church-state separation to the bone? The Supreme Court considers mandatory government funding of religious education

In Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue, the Supreme Court will address a question that would have been unthinkable even to ask until quite recently: Can a state be forced to underwrite religious education with taxpayer dollars? Although the court has previously allowed the government to adopt school-voucher programs that provide indirect government aid to religious schools, it has never suggested that the U.S. Constitution somehow requires doing so ― and certainly not in the face of state constitutional rules barring taxpayer funding of religious education. Yet that is essentially what the petitioners are seeking in Espinoza, the latest in a disturbing line of cases attacking the very foundations of the separation of church and state.

At issue in Espinoza is a voucher-type program in Montana designed to divert millions in government dollars to private schools, the overwhelming majority of which are religiously affiliated. The program, enacted in 2015, allows taxpayers to receive dollar-for-dollar tax credits for donations to Student Scholarship Organizations, which then award scholarships to students attending private elementary and secondary schools. In other words, if a taxpayer owes the state, say, $100 in taxes, she can decide instead to send that money directly to an SSO, which will then spend it on private-school scholarships. In practice, the tax-credit program has served its unmistakable goal of funneling government dollars to religious education: The only SSO operating in the state supports 13 private schools, 12 of which are religiously affiliated, and over 94 percent of program scholarships have gone to finance religious education.

Such religious funding, even though indirect, violates the Montana constitution, which includes heightened protections against government-funded religion. The state constitution’s “no-aid provision,” adopted to promote the separation of church and state and to ensure continued taxpayer support for public schools in Montana, expressly prohibits the government from providing “direct or indirect” aid for religious education. In light of the no-aid provision, the Montana Department of Revenue promulgated a rule that would bar SSO scholarships from funding religious education and training at private religious schools. Parents of students attending such schools challenged the rule in court, claiming that it unconstitutionally discriminated against them by excluding religious schools from the tax-credit program. Recognizing the clear conflict with the state’s no-aid provision, the Montana Supreme Court struck down the entire program, abolishing tax-credit funding for all private schools in the state, whether religious or not.

More: https://www.scotusblog.com/2019/09/symposium-stripping-church-state-separation-to-the-bone-the-supreme-court-considers-mandatory-government-funding-of-religious-education/

[PeteS in CA]

Government cannot discriminate against certain private schools simply because those private schools are operated by a church or religious group.

[skeeter]

A voucher is a voucher. Where the taxpayer chooses to use it is their personal decision.

ANYTHING to pry the state's greasy fingers off of our youth.

[roamer_1]

Considering that the entire time my kids were in Christian school, I was also paying for a public education that I was not using...

What would be legit, and open education to competitive forces, is that the government money be directed to the school or program the parent chooses. And believe me, The price of Christian school, and an extraordinary education by comparison, would wind up being cheaper.

At the least, that money should be withheld from the school district - Make em work for it.

[PeteS in CA]

Considering that the entire time my kids were in Christian school, I was also paying for a public education that I was not using... 1.

What would be legit, and open education to competitive forces, is that the government money be directed to the school or program the parent chooses. And believe me, The price of Christian school, and an extraordinary education by comparison, would wind up being cheaper. 2.

At the least, that money should be withheld from the school district - Make em work for it.

1. Yep, a family whose children are in a private school or are homeschooled pays the same taxes that families pay whose children are in PS.

2. When all the local, state, and Federal per-student $$ is added up, it's similar to or higher than many/most private schools.

[jmyrlefuller]

2. When all the local, state, and Federal per-student $$ is added up, it's similar to or higher than many/most private schools.

No kidding. Even ten years ago, there were states spending over $20,000 per student per year... and that number only ever goes upward.

The public education system is a total disaster, hijacked and corrupted by unions. Yet its biggest backers hate religious education. That's one of the big factors, I'd be willing to guess, that there's been this big attack on the Catholics, because they run the biggest non-public education system in the United States.

The public schools know they cannot teach a complete education. So they will destroy the ones that do.

[Wingnut]

A Catholic school education today is far superior to what you receive in 99% of the PS today.

[roamer_1]

No kidding. Even ten years ago, there were states spending over $20,000 per student per year... and that number only ever goes upward.

The public education system is a total disaster, hijacked and corrupted by unions. Yet its biggest backers hate religious education. That's one of the big factors, I'd be willing to guess, that there's been this big attack on the Catholics, because they run the biggest non-public education system in the United States.

The public schools know they cannot teach a complete education. So they will destroy the ones that do.

Not long before that, I had four kids in Christian school at $6k each...
When I crashed and burned, and could no longer afford it, it took TWO YEARS before the kids were learning something new. All of em, straight A's until after that time... then the grades for some of them started having variation.

The difference in education alone was palpable. Not to mention the moral code and Christian devotion aspects.

[Elderberry]

We started our 1st youngun with Catholic Pre-K and continued for several more years until around the 4th grade he had 4 different teachers that year. Seemed they couldn't hang onto teachers so after that our kids went to public schools. While in Catholic School we were always getting called to the school because of my son. I had taught him not to take any crap off of anyone. We never got called to public schools for discipline problems. With my youngest, they wanted to sic a speech therapist on him. I think they were trying to purge his Southern Drawl.

[PeteS in CA]

I attended a Lutheran parochial school in Grades 1-3. The school then closed for financial reasons. Because our teacher goofed in planning out Math, we finished our Math book several weeks early. She gave us a choice between no more Math or moving on with what we would get in 4th Grade, and we chose to keep on going (can you picture that choice in modern PSs?). When the school closed, the teacher gave me worn-out 4th and 5th Grade Readers that would otherwise have been thrown away. Consequently, I was at least two grade-levels ahead in Reading when I started 4th Grade in PS, and the first semester of Math taught nothing new.

We homeschooled our kids "K-12", so no PS stories to tell about them. We had them take the California High School Proficiency Exam - a CHSPE certificate is legally equivalent to a high school diploma in California - so they could be prepared if a college or employer decided not to accept the diploma of our homeschool. We also took advantage, in their high school years, of being able to concurrently enroll them in our local junior college. They found JC frustrating at times, because some students were just taking classes so they could stay on their parents' employee health plans - serving time rather than learning.

[roamer_1]

I think they were trying to purge his Southern Drawl.

I absolutely hate that btw. I actually got skooled by a Bama gal that told me my drawl is too thick...
Honest to God she sounded like Midwest.

Nothin I like better than a sweetheart with a long drawl. It's getting very hard to find.

[Smokin Joe]

Considering that the entire time my kids were in Christian school, I was also paying for a public education that I was not using...

What would be legit, and open education to competitive forces, is that the government money be directed to the school or program the parent chooses. And believe me, The price of Christian school, and an extraordinary education by comparison, would wind up being cheaper.

At the least, that money should be withheld from the school district - Make em work for it.

That, too, is my reasoning. While I was paying tuition for up to three kids, I was paying taxes for the public schools as well, over and above that tuition. I had no choice but to fund a school system I would not send my kids to.

If the voucher/scholarship monies would have otherwise been paid out for public schooling, there is no difference in cost to the parent/benefactor except to allow someone to back the schools of their choice, only without that money being required to also be paid to the public school system.

If those schools provide a religious education (something lacking in public schools with the possible exception of Islamic indoctrination thinly veiled as "history"), that might be the reason to back the school, rather than one which has a hole in its curriculum.

[roamer_1]

That, too, is my reasoning. While I was paying tuition for up to three kids, I was paying taxes for the public schools as well, over and above that tuition. I had no choice but to fund a school system I would not send my kids to.

If the voucher/scholarship monies would have otherwise been paid out for public schooling, there is no difference in cost to the parent/benefactor except to allow someone to back the schools of their choice, only without that money being required to also be paid to the public school system.

If those schools provide a religious education (something lacking in public schools with the possible exception of Islamic indoctrination thinly veiled as "history"), that might be the reason to back the school, rather than one which has a hole in its curriculum.

That's exactly right. Folks would generally tend to place their kids according to the excellence of the school - to include choice in social raising. I don't know many here that wouldn't want prayer and proper social standards, polite interaction as part and parcel of education. Even home-room Bible studies - Interaction with the churches...

Here the Catholics, Orthodox, and High-church Anglicans and Lutherans would have to gang together to have enough kids together for a class (seein as the Catholics already have a private school)... Same with Presbyterians and Methodists, and regular Lutherans and Epissmeoffcapalians... The Pentecostals could hold their own, as could the  non-aligned Evangelicals... The most of em would be the Baptists, and of course the secularists would need their own, along with whoever else couldn't put together enough kids for a classroom... As a Messianic, I would be happy to put my kids in with the Baptists or the Pentecostals.

See, no fault, no foul... Everybody's happy. Let the churches sponsor the classes and Gubmint ain't preaching... Just providing the interface.