Author Topic: It’s Time For The Supreme Court To Make States Stop Ignoring The Second Amendment  (Read 12207 times)

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Online Smokin Joe

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I don’t expect to convince anyone here - they’ve all made up their minds based on their subjective desires.  That doesn’t change the fact that the two sit on the same foundation.
Good. You won't be disappointed. In the meantime, I have this: North Dakota Constituion: Article I, § 1 of the North Dakota Constitution states that all individuals have certain “inalienable rights,” and includes among them the right “to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed.”

In fact, in 44 of the 50 States, there is a constitutional protection for the RKBA, some of which adopt the language of the 2nd Amendment to the United States Constitution, in part or in toto.

The six which have no such provisions are in bold.

Alabama    "That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and state."    1901    Art. I, § 26
      "That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and state."    1819    Art. I, § 23

Alaska    "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or infringed by the State or a political subdivision of the State."    1994    Art. I, § 19
      "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."    1959    Art. I, § 19

Arizona    "The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men"    1912    Art. II, § 26

Arkansas    "The citizens of this State shall have the right to keep and bear arms for their common defense."    1868    Art. II, § 5
(Art. I, § 5 when enacted)
      "That the free white men of this State shall have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defence."    1836    Art. II, § 21

California    No constitutional provision to bear arms    


Colorado    "The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons."    1876    Art. II, § 13

Connecticut    "Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state."    1818   Art. I, § 15
(Art. I, § 17 when enacted)

Delaware    "A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use."    1987    Art. I, § 20

Florida    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and of the lawful authority of the state shall not be infringed, except that the manner of bearing arms may be regulated by law."    1968    Art. I, § 8
      "The right of the people to bear arms in defence of themselves and the lawful authority of the State, shall not be infringed, but the Legislature may prescribe the manner in which they may be borne."    1885    Art. I, § 20
      "The people shall have the right to bear arms in defence of themselves and of the lawful authority of the State."    1868    Art. I, § 22
      "That the free white men of this State shall have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defence."    1838    Art. I, § 21

Georgia    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but the General Assembly shall have power to prescribe the manner in which arms may be borne."    1877    Art. I, § 1, ¶ VIII
(Art. I, § XXII when enacted)
      "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free people, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; but the general assembly shall have power to prescribe by law the manner in which arms may be borne."    1868    Art. I, § 14
      "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."    1865    Art. I, § 4

Hawaii    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."    1959    Art. I, § 17

Idaho    "The people have the right to keep and bear arms, which right shall not be abridged; but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to govern the carrying of weapons concealed on the person nor prevent passage of legislation providing minimum sentences for crimes committed while in possession of a firearm, nor prevent the passage of legislation providing penalties for the possession of firearms by a convicted felon, nor prevent the passage of any legislation punishing the use of a firearm. No law shall impose licensure, registration or special taxation on the ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition. Nor shall any law permit the confiscation of firearms, except those actually used in the commission of a felony."    1978    Art. I, § 11
      "The people have the right to bear arms for their security and defense; but the Legislature shall regulate the exercise of this right by law."    1889    Art. I, § 11

Illinois    "Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."    1970    Art. I, § 22

Indiana    "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State."    1851    Art. I, § 32
      "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State, and that the military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power."    1816    Art. I, § 20

Iowa    No constitutional provision to bear arms


Kansas    "A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, for lawful hunting and recreational use, and for any other lawful purpose; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power."    1859    Bill of Rights § 4
(Art. I, § 4 when enacted)

Kentucky    "All men are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned... The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons."    1891    Â§ 1
      "That the rights of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned; but the General Assembly may pass laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed arms."    1850    Art. XIII, § 25
      "That the rights of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."    1799    Art. X, § 23
      "That the right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."    1792    Art. XII, § 23

Louisiana    "The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms is fundamental and shall not be infringed. Any restriction on this right shall be subject to strict scrutiny"    1974    Art. I, § 11
      "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged. This shall not prevent the passage of laws to punish those who carry weapons concealed."    1879    Art. 3

Maine    "Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned."    1987    Art. I, § 16
      "Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms for the common defence; and this right shall never be questioned."    1819    Art. I, § 16

Maryland    No constitutional provision to bear arms    

Massachusetts    "The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it."    1780    Pt. 1, art. 17

Michigan    "Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state."    1963    Art. I, § 6
      "Every person has a right to bear arms for the defense of himself and the state."    1850    Art. XVIII, § 7
      "Every person has a right to bear arms for the defence of himself and the State."    1835    Art. I, § 13

Minnesota    No constitutional provision to bear arms    

Mississippi    "The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons."    1890    Art. 3, § 12
      "All persons shall have a right to keep and bear arms for their defence."    1868    Art. I, § 15
      "Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and of the State."    1832    Art. I, § 23
      "Every citizen has a right to bear arms, in defence of himself and the State."    1817    Art. I, § 23

Missouri    "That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms, ammunition, and accessories typical to the normal function of such arms, in defense of his home, person, family and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned. The rights guaranteed by this section shall be unalienable. Any restriction on these rights shall be subject to strict scrutiny and the state of Missouri shall be obligated to uphold these rights and shall under no circumstances decline to protect against their infringement. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the general assembly from enacting general laws which limit the rights of convicted violent felons or those adjudicated by a court to be a danger to self or others as result of a mental disorder or mental infirmity."    2014    Art. I, § 23
      "That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons."    1945    Art. I, § 23
      "That the right of no citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power, when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question; but nothing herein contained is intended to justify the practice of wearing concealed weapons."    1875    Art. II, § 17
      "That the people have the right peaceably to assemble for their common good, and to apply to those vested with the powers of government for redress of grievances by petition or remonstrance; and that their right to bear arms in defence of themselves and of the lawful authority of the State cannot be questioned."    1865    Art. I, § 8
      "That the people have the right peaceably to assemble for their common good, and to apply to those vested with the powers of government for redress of grievances by petition or remonstrance; and that their right to bear arms in defence of themselves and of the State cannot be questioned."    1820    Art. XIII, § 3

Montana    "The right of any person to keep or bear arms in defense of his own home, person, and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but nothing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons."    1889    Art. II, § 12

Nebraska    "All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the right to keep and bear arms for security or defense of self, family, home, and others, and for lawful common defense, hunting, recreational use, and all other lawful purposes, and such rights shall not be denied or infringed by the state or any subdivision thereof. To secure these rights, and the protection of property, governments are instituted among people, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."    1988    Art. I, § 1

Nevada    "Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes."    1982    Art. I, § 11

New Hampshire    "All persons have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property and the state."    1982    Pt. 1, art. 2-a

New Jersey    No constitutional provision to bear arms    

New Mexico    "No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms."    1986    Art. II, § 6
      "No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons."    1971    Art. II, § 6
      "The people have the right to bear arms for their security and defense, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons."    1912    Art. II, § 6

New York    No constitutional provision to bear arms    

North Carolina    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice."    1971    Art. I, § 30
      "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up, and the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein contained shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the Legislature from enacting penal statutes against said practice."    1875    Art. I, § 24
      "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up, and the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."    1868    Art. I, § 24
      "That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defence of the State; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."    1776    Bill of Rights, § XVII

North Dakota    "All individuals are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation; pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness; and to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed."    1984    Art. I, § 1

Ohio    "The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be kept up; and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power."    1851    Art. I, § 4
      "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State; and as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be kept up, and that the military shall be kept under strict subordination to the civil power."    1802    Art. VIII, § 20

Oklahoma    "The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from regulating the carrying of weapons."    1907    Art. II, § 26

Oregon    "The people shall have the right to bear arms for the defence of themselves, and the State, but the Military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power."    1857    Art. I, § 27
(Art. I, § 28 when enacted)

Pennsylvania    "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."    1790    Art. I, § 21
(Art. IX, § 21 when enacted)
      "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination, to, and governed by, the civil power."    1776    Declaration of Rights, cl. XIII

Rhode Island    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."    1842    Art. I, § 22

South Carolina    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. As, in times of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained without the consent of the General Assembly. The military power of the State shall always be held in subordination to the civil authority and be governed by it. No soldier shall in time of peace be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner nor in time of war but in the manner prescribed by law."    1895    Art. I, § 20
      "The people have a right to keep and bear arms for the common defence. As, in times of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained without the consent of the General Assembly. The military power of the State shall always be held in subordination to the civil authority and be governed by it. No soldier shall in time of peace be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner nor in time of war but in the manner prescribed by law."    1868    Art. I, § 28

South Dakota    "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied."    1889    Art. VI, § 24

Tennessee    "That the citizens of this state have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime."    1870    Art. I, § 26
      "That the free white men of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defence."    1834    Art. I, § 26
      "That the freemen of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defence."    1796    Art. XI, § 26

Texas    "Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime."    1876    Art. I, § 23
      "Every person shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defence of himself or the State, under such regulations as the legislature may prescribe."    1868    Art. I, § 13
      "Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in lawful defence of himself or the State."    1845    Art. I, § 13
      "Every citizen shall have the right to bear arms in defence of himself and the republic. The military shall at all times and in all cases be subordinate to the civil power."    1836    Declaration of Rights, cl. 14

Utah    "The individual right of the people to keep and bear arms for security and defense of self, family, others, property, or the state, as well as for other lawful purposes shall not be infringed; but nothing herein shall prevent the Legislature from defining the lawful use of arms."    1984    Art. I, § 6
      "The people have the right to bear arms for their security and defense, but the legislature may regulate the exercise of this right by law."    1896    n/a

Vermont    "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State--and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power."    1777    Ch. 1, art. 15

Virginia    "That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."    1971    Art. I, § 13
      "That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."    1776    Art. I, § 13

Washington    "The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men."    1889    Art. I, § 24

West Virginia    "A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, and for lawful hunting and recreational use."    1986    Art. III, § 22

Wisconsin    "The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose."    1998    Art. I, § 25

Wyoming    "The right of citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the state shall not be denied."    1889    Art. I, § 24
Source


Now, if you would, show the State constitutional provisions which guarantee, directly, the right to terminate the life of an unborn child. None of this judicial arm waving, let's see the plain language in the State Constitution which directly protects that alleged "right".

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Bill Cipher

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I disagree with that too.

There's "legal" and there's "moral."  These discussions throw that contrast in sharp relief.  Standing on judicial precedent to justify immoral acts is pretty thin ice for the legalists to stand upon.  To draw an equivalence is to say self-defense is as immoral as aborting a baby or driving on a street without a license.

Absolutely wrong.  Standing on the law, as opposed to subjective moral belief, is what separates rule of law from dictatorship and cult of personality. 

Offline skeeter

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I disagree with that too.

There's "legal" and there's "moral."  These discussions throw that contrast in sharp relief.  Standing on judicial precedent to justify immoral acts is pretty thin ice for the legalists to stand upon.  To draw an equivalence is to say self-defense is as immoral as aborting a baby or driving on a street without a license.

Yes. And when you finally tire of accepting the left's constant sliding the context of the debate to the left you're accused of being unreasonable. Ba fan gu to that.

Bill Cipher

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Good. You won't be disappointed. In the meantime, I have this: North Dakota Constituion: Article I, § 1 of the North Dakota Constitution states that all individuals have certain “inalienable rights,” and includes among them the right “to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed.”

In fact, in 44 of the 50 States, there is a constitutional protection for the RKBA, some of which adopt the language of the 2nd Amendment to the United States Constitution, in part or in toto.

The six which have no such provisions are in bold.

Alabama    "That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and state."    1901    Art. I, § 26
      "That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and state."    1819    Art. I, § 23

Alaska    "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or infringed by the State or a political subdivision of the State."    1994    Art. I, § 19
      "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."    1959    Art. I, § 19

Arizona    "The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men"    1912    Art. II, § 26

Arkansas    "The citizens of this State shall have the right to keep and bear arms for their common defense."    1868    Art. II, § 5
(Art. I, § 5 when enacted)
      "That the free white men of this State shall have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defence."    1836    Art. II, § 21

California    No constitutional provision to bear arms    


Colorado    "The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons."    1876    Art. II, § 13

Connecticut    "Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state."    1818   Art. I, § 15
(Art. I, § 17 when enacted)

Delaware    "A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use."    1987    Art. I, § 20

Florida    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and of the lawful authority of the state shall not be infringed, except that the manner of bearing arms may be regulated by law."    1968    Art. I, § 8
      "The right of the people to bear arms in defence of themselves and the lawful authority of the State, shall not be infringed, but the Legislature may prescribe the manner in which they may be borne."    1885    Art. I, § 20
      "The people shall have the right to bear arms in defence of themselves and of the lawful authority of the State."    1868    Art. I, § 22
      "That the free white men of this State shall have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defence."    1838    Art. I, § 21

Georgia    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but the General Assembly shall have power to prescribe the manner in which arms may be borne."    1877    Art. I, § 1, ¶ VIII
(Art. I, § XXII when enacted)
      "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free people, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; but the general assembly shall have power to prescribe by law the manner in which arms may be borne."    1868    Art. I, § 14
      "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."    1865    Art. I, § 4

Hawaii    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."    1959    Art. I, § 17

Idaho    "The people have the right to keep and bear arms, which right shall not be abridged; but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to govern the carrying of weapons concealed on the person nor prevent passage of legislation providing minimum sentences for crimes committed while in possession of a firearm, nor prevent the passage of legislation providing penalties for the possession of firearms by a convicted felon, nor prevent the passage of any legislation punishing the use of a firearm. No law shall impose licensure, registration or special taxation on the ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition. Nor shall any law permit the confiscation of firearms, except those actually used in the commission of a felony."    1978    Art. I, § 11
      "The people have the right to bear arms for their security and defense; but the Legislature shall regulate the exercise of this right by law."    1889    Art. I, § 11

Illinois    "Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."    1970    Art. I, § 22

Indiana    "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State."    1851    Art. I, § 32
      "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State, and that the military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power."    1816    Art. I, § 20

Iowa    No constitutional provision to bear arms


Kansas    "A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, for lawful hunting and recreational use, and for any other lawful purpose; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power."    1859    Bill of Rights § 4
(Art. I, § 4 when enacted)

Kentucky    "All men are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned... The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons."    1891    Â§ 1
      "That the rights of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned; but the General Assembly may pass laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed arms."    1850    Art. XIII, § 25
      "That the rights of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."    1799    Art. X, § 23
      "That the right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."    1792    Art. XII, § 23

Louisiana    "The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms is fundamental and shall not be infringed. Any restriction on this right shall be subject to strict scrutiny"    1974    Art. I, § 11
      "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged. This shall not prevent the passage of laws to punish those who carry weapons concealed."    1879    Art. 3

Maine    "Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned."    1987    Art. I, § 16
      "Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms for the common defence; and this right shall never be questioned."    1819    Art. I, § 16

Maryland    No constitutional provision to bear arms    

Massachusetts    "The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it."    1780    Pt. 1, art. 17

Michigan    "Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state."    1963    Art. I, § 6
      "Every person has a right to bear arms for the defense of himself and the state."    1850    Art. XVIII, § 7
      "Every person has a right to bear arms for the defence of himself and the State."    1835    Art. I, § 13

Minnesota    No constitutional provision to bear arms    

Mississippi    "The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons."    1890    Art. 3, § 12
      "All persons shall have a right to keep and bear arms for their defence."    1868    Art. I, § 15
      "Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and of the State."    1832    Art. I, § 23
      "Every citizen has a right to bear arms, in defence of himself and the State."    1817    Art. I, § 23

Missouri    "That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms, ammunition, and accessories typical to the normal function of such arms, in defense of his home, person, family and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned. The rights guaranteed by this section shall be unalienable. Any restriction on these rights shall be subject to strict scrutiny and the state of Missouri shall be obligated to uphold these rights and shall under no circumstances decline to protect against their infringement. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the general assembly from enacting general laws which limit the rights of convicted violent felons or those adjudicated by a court to be a danger to self or others as result of a mental disorder or mental infirmity."    2014    Art. I, § 23
      "That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons."    1945    Art. I, § 23
      "That the right of no citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power, when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question; but nothing herein contained is intended to justify the practice of wearing concealed weapons."    1875    Art. II, § 17
      "That the people have the right peaceably to assemble for their common good, and to apply to those vested with the powers of government for redress of grievances by petition or remonstrance; and that their right to bear arms in defence of themselves and of the lawful authority of the State cannot be questioned."    1865    Art. I, § 8
      "That the people have the right peaceably to assemble for their common good, and to apply to those vested with the powers of government for redress of grievances by petition or remonstrance; and that their right to bear arms in defence of themselves and of the State cannot be questioned."    1820    Art. XIII, § 3

Montana    "The right of any person to keep or bear arms in defense of his own home, person, and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but nothing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons."    1889    Art. II, § 12

Nebraska    "All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the right to keep and bear arms for security or defense of self, family, home, and others, and for lawful common defense, hunting, recreational use, and all other lawful purposes, and such rights shall not be denied or infringed by the state or any subdivision thereof. To secure these rights, and the protection of property, governments are instituted among people, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."    1988    Art. I, § 1

Nevada    "Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes."    1982    Art. I, § 11

New Hampshire    "All persons have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property and the state."    1982    Pt. 1, art. 2-a

New Jersey    No constitutional provision to bear arms    

New Mexico    "No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms."    1986    Art. II, § 6
      "No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons."    1971    Art. II, § 6
      "The people have the right to bear arms for their security and defense, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons."    1912    Art. II, § 6

New York    No constitutional provision to bear arms    

North Carolina    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice."    1971    Art. I, § 30
      "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up, and the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein contained shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the Legislature from enacting penal statutes against said practice."    1875    Art. I, § 24
      "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up, and the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."    1868    Art. I, § 24
      "That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defence of the State; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."    1776    Bill of Rights, § XVII

North Dakota    "All individuals are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation; pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness; and to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed."    1984    Art. I, § 1

Ohio    "The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be kept up; and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power."    1851    Art. I, § 4
      "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State; and as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be kept up, and that the military shall be kept under strict subordination to the civil power."    1802    Art. VIII, § 20

Oklahoma    "The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from regulating the carrying of weapons."    1907    Art. II, § 26

Oregon    "The people shall have the right to bear arms for the defence of themselves, and the State, but the Military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power."    1857    Art. I, § 27
(Art. I, § 28 when enacted)

Pennsylvania    "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."    1790    Art. I, § 21
(Art. IX, § 21 when enacted)
      "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination, to, and governed by, the civil power."    1776    Declaration of Rights, cl. XIII

Rhode Island    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."    1842    Art. I, § 22

South Carolina    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. As, in times of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained without the consent of the General Assembly. The military power of the State shall always be held in subordination to the civil authority and be governed by it. No soldier shall in time of peace be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner nor in time of war but in the manner prescribed by law."    1895    Art. I, § 20
      "The people have a right to keep and bear arms for the common defence. As, in times of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained without the consent of the General Assembly. The military power of the State shall always be held in subordination to the civil authority and be governed by it. No soldier shall in time of peace be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner nor in time of war but in the manner prescribed by law."    1868    Art. I, § 28

South Dakota    "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied."    1889    Art. VI, § 24

Tennessee    "That the citizens of this state have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime."    1870    Art. I, § 26
      "That the free white men of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defence."    1834    Art. I, § 26
      "That the freemen of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defence."    1796    Art. XI, § 26

Texas    "Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime."    1876    Art. I, § 23
      "Every person shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defence of himself or the State, under such regulations as the legislature may prescribe."    1868    Art. I, § 13
      "Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in lawful defence of himself or the State."    1845    Art. I, § 13
      "Every citizen shall have the right to bear arms in defence of himself and the republic. The military shall at all times and in all cases be subordinate to the civil power."    1836    Declaration of Rights, cl. 14

Utah    "The individual right of the people to keep and bear arms for security and defense of self, family, others, property, or the state, as well as for other lawful purposes shall not be infringed; but nothing herein shall prevent the Legislature from defining the lawful use of arms."    1984    Art. I, § 6
      "The people have the right to bear arms for their security and defense, but the legislature may regulate the exercise of this right by law."    1896    n/a

Vermont    "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State--and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power."    1777    Ch. 1, art. 15

Virginia    "That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."    1971    Art. I, § 13
      "That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."    1776    Art. I, § 13

Washington    "The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men."    1889    Art. I, § 24

West Virginia    "A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, and for lawful hunting and recreational use."    1986    Art. III, § 22

Wisconsin    "The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose."    1998    Art. I, § 25

Wyoming    "The right of citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the state shall not be denied."    1889    Art. I, § 24
Source


Now, if you would, show the State constitutional provisions which guarantee, directly, the right to terminate the life of an unborn child. None of this judicial arm waving, let's see the plain language in the State Constitution which directly protects that alleged "right".

You won't, you can't, it doesn't exist.

Very nice, and utterly irrelevant to what the federal constitution requires. 

It’s a shame you can’t accept facts and deal with them, even if they challenge your cherished beliefs. 

The operative fact here is that the Second Amendment only applies to the states as an enforceable limitation on what a state can do on the same basis that Roe stands as a limitation on what the states can do to limit abortion. 

Same basis:  substantive due process. 

Online Cyber Liberty

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You put the rabbit in the hat framing the comparison that way.   As I've said many times before -  feel free to advance your own moral view of the matter.  Just don't conscript the State to force your morality on others.   Women don't abort unless they feel they have no other choice.  It's a bad choice.   The solution without trampling liberty is to minimize unplanned pregnancies,  and to provide support for women in crisis. 

 And it's a pretty tough sell to brand women as "murderers".    How many women do you expect to listen to you after you hang that label on them?

I expect such women to believe me as much as I believe you when you say registration and insurance is "reasonable."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Online Smokin Joe

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Very nice, and utterly irrelevant to what the federal constitution requires. 

It’s a shame you can’t accept facts and deal with them, even if they challenge your cherished beliefs. 

The operative fact here is that the Second Amendment only applies to the states as an enforceable limitation on what a state can do on the same basis that Roe stands as a limitation on what the states can do to limit abortion. 

Same basis:  substantive due process.
The fact is, I have my firearms. I will possess them so long as I live. They are there for the express purpose of defending my self, family, home, community, and country against tyranny, all recreational and other uses aside. 

It's a shame you hide behind the robes of judges like a mother's skirts.

YOU STILL CANNOT FIND ONE REFERENCE, ONE CODIFICATION, ONE NOTATION OF THE RIGHT TO MURDER BABIES IN THE WOMB.

I have provided law. You have provided this:

Quote
Standing on the law, as opposed to subjective moral belief, is what separates rule of law from dictatorship and cult of personality.

Where is your law?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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The fact is, I have my firearms. I will possess them so long as I live. They are there for the express purpose of defending my self, family, home, community, and country against tyranny, all recreational and other uses aside. 

It's a shame you hide behind the robes of judges like a mother's skirts.

YOU STILL CANNOT FIND ONE REFERENCE, ONE CODIFICATION, ONE NOTATION OF THE RIGHT TO MURDER BABIES IN THE WOMB.

I have provided law. You have provided this:

Where is your law?

You seem to be suffering under the massive delusion that I have any interest in taking your guns.  I don’t.  Period.  I am interested in making sure that gun owners behave responsibly, but then, I feel the same way about car owners and bicyclists. 

Online Smokin Joe

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You seem to be suffering under the massive delusion that I have any interest in taking your guns.  I don’t.  Period.  I am interested in making sure that gun owners behave responsibly, but then, I feel the same way about car owners and bicyclists.
It isn't your job. It is up to each individual to behave responsibly. You can't force that. In consideration of the US Constitution's prohibition of infringements on my RKBA, and my State's Constitutional guarantee, coupled with the very protection inherent with the practice of the Right, I'm not very concerned about you as a threat to my firearms. I'll do what I bloody well want, thanks, and as long as I am causing no harm to others, I feel pretty safe in that.

But I'll nibble, even though you are again trying to change the subject, avoiding my question, and again avoiding providing any codified legal reference to the alleged right of a woman to murder her child in utero, at least that wasn't the decree of some judge(s).

I'd still like to see you provide that--something you have completely and miserably failed to do, despite numerous requests.

(You want bicycle registration, licensing, insurance? Limits on Assault Bicycles? No fully automatic gear shifts? A limit on seats? Gears? What? )

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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You seem to be suffering under the massive delusion that I have any interest in taking your guns.  I don’t.  Period.  I am interested in making sure that gun owners behave responsibly, but then, I feel the same way about car owners and bicyclists.

I honestly don't think you have any interest in taking my weapons (although I still recall the freakout when I wrote of buying an AR-15).  However, I do think you are misguided enough to think the measures you and @Jazzhead want won't lead to somebody, who really is interested, taking your "reasonable restrictions" and using them to seize them, as has happened in almost every other country that's tried it.

You would have to convince people who know history to ignore that history to go along with you.  Ain't gonna happen.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 05:11:47 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Jazzhead

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I expect such women to believe me as much as I believe you when you say registration and insurance is "reasonable."

Why do most folks accept the licensure, registration and insurance requirements for motor vehicle ownership to be reasonable?   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Jazzhead

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I honestly don't think you have any interest in taking my weapons (although I still recall the freakout when I wrote of buying an AR-15).  However, I do think you are misguided enough to think the measures you and @Jazzhead want won't lead to somebody, who really is interested, taking your "reasonable restrictions" and using them to seize them, as has happened in almost every other country that's tried it.

The licensure,  registration and insurance requirements for motor vehicles have not led to their confiscation.   Those who love cars can own as many as they want, and use them for their intended purpose, so long as they're registered and insured. 

This is basic stuff that's accepted as reasonable by most Americans.   There is no rational reason for this to be different with respect to guns.   What is irrational is this notion that gun ownership is somehow sacred.   It's just a useful and potentially dangerous implement.    Enjoy your playthings, but don't expect me to agree with you that the community cannot require you to be responsible, or to indulge you in your paranoia.       
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 05:32:45 pm by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Online Cyber Liberty

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Why do most folks accept the licensure, registration and insurance requirements for motor vehicle ownership to be reasonable?

Perhaps it could be because there is nothing in the Constitution protecting the right to keep and bear cars?  I lost count how many dozens of times it's been explained to you.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Jazzhead

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Perhaps it could be because there is nothing in the Constitution protecting the right to keep and bear cars?  I lost count how many dozens of times it's been explained to you.

The status of guns under the Constitution is irrelevant.    Neither the 2A nor the individual right unrelated to the militia found by Heller forbids reasonable regulation of these rights by the state.   So says Justice Scalia.   You know that.  You are instead avoiding the question - if most folks consider licensure, registration and insurance to be reasonable with respect to motor vehicles,  what makes them "unreasonable" with respect to firearms?   
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Offline Jazzhead

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I expect such women to believe me as much as I believe you when you say registration and insurance is "reasonable."

So you're admitting to spouting bullshit?   Got it. 
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Online Cyber Liberty

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The status of guns under the Constitution is irrelevant.    Neither the 2A nor the individual right unrelated to the militia found by Heller forbids reasonable regulation of these rights by the state.   So says Justice Scalia.   You know that.  You are instead avoiding the question - if most folks consider licensure, registration and insurance to be reasonable with respect to motor vehicles,  what makes them "unreasonable" with respect to firearms?   

OK, then, I'll take that head-on.  Where do you get the notion that "most people" favor actions that will almost certainly lead to mass confiscation of their firearms?  Whenever I hear somebody say "Most people favor (fill in the leftist policy)..." I find that "most people" are just the people the leftists associate with.  Most of them are probably hoplophobes, who are probably the wrong people to ask.

"Most people think humans are destroying the Earth!"  "Most people favor abortion up to and including birth!"  "I don't know anybody who voted for Ronald Reagan!"

God-given rights are not subject to public opinion.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline txradioguy

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The status of guns under the Constitution is irrelevant.    Neither the 2A nor the individual right unrelated to the militia found by Heller forbids reasonable regulation of these rights by the state.   So says Justice Scalia.   You know that.  You are instead avoiding the question - if most folks consider licensure, registration and insurance to be reasonable with respect to motor vehicles,  what makes them "unreasonable" with respect to firearms?   

There’s not a Constitutionally protected right to own or drive a car.

And as it’s been pointed out to you numerous times before...you only have to register and insure a car if you intend to drive it in public roads.

This insurance scheme you’re supporting yet again doesn’t address the real issues with gun violence. You and the rest of the Liberal gun grabbers never want to face the real issues.

And on top of it this insurance scheme you propose discriminated against the poor that seek to own a weapon to protect themselves and their families and property in the crime infested areas in which they live.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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So you're admitting to spouting bullshit?   Got it.

No.  I'm admitting some people are intractable and choose not to think for themselves.  You are the one applying the word "bullshit" to my arguments.  You must be intractable, QED.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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OK, then, I'll take that head-on.  Where do you get the notion that "most people" favor actions that will almost certainly lead to mass confiscation of their firearms?  Whenever I hear somebody say "Most people favor (fill in the leftist policy)..." I find that "most people" are just the people the leftists associate with.  Most of them are probably hoplophobes, who are probably the wrong people to ask.

"Most people think humans are destroying the Earth!"  "Most people favor abortion up to and including birth!"  "I don't know anybody who voted for Ronald Reagan!"

God-given rights are not subject to public opinion.

QFT
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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There’s not a Constitutionally protected right to own or drive a car.

He glosses right over that every time it's mentioned.  Must be a pretty good argument we have there, @txradioguy.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Bill Cipher

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It isn't your job. It is up to each individual to behave responsibly. You can't force that. In consideration of the US Constitution's prohibition of infringements on my RKBA, and my State's Constitutional guarantee, coupled with the very protection inherent with the practice of the Right, I'm not very concerned about you as a threat to my firearms. I'll do what I bloody well want, thanks, and as long as I am causing no harm to others, I feel pretty safe in that.

But I'll nibble, even though you are again trying to change the subject, avoiding my question, and again avoiding providing any codified legal reference to the alleged right of a woman to murder her child in utero, at least that wasn't the decree of some judge(s).

I'd still like to see you provide that--something you have completely and miserably failed to do, despite numerous requests.

(You want bicycle registration, licensing, insurance? Limits on Assault Bicycles? No fully automatic gear shifts? A limit on seats? Gears? What? )



Nonsense.  The law imposes duties on individuals to be responsible, and imposes fines and punishment for violations, in all areas of life.  Why should gun owners be some sacrosanct group not subject to the same rules car owners are subject to?

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OK, then, I'll take that head-on.  Where do you get the notion that "most people" favor actions that will almost certainly lead to mass confiscation of their firearms?  Whenever I hear somebody say "Most people favor (fill in the leftist policy)..." I find that "most people" are just the people the leftists associate with.  Most of them are probably hoplophobes, who are probably the wrong people to ask.

"Most people think humans are destroying the Earth!"  "Most people favor abortion up to and including birth!"  "I don't know anybody who voted for Ronald Reagan!"

God-given rights are not subject to public opinion.

That's why I bring up the subject of motor vehicles.   Registration, licensure and insurance has not led to confiscation.  Folks object to long lines at the DMV,  but not to the notion that with car ownership comes necessary responsibility.

I decline to indulge you in your paranoia.   
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There’s not a Constitutionally protected right to own or drive a car.

And as it’s been pointed out to you numerous times before...you only have to register and insure a car if you intend to drive it in public roads.

This insurance scheme you’re supporting yet again doesn’t address the real issues with gun violence. You and the rest of the Liberal gun grabbers never want to face the real issues.

And on top of it this insurance scheme you propose discriminated against the poor that seek to own a weapon to protect themselves and their families and property in the crime infested areas in which they live.

Utterly irrelevant.  As is pretty much everything you post. 

Offline Jazzhead

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He glosses right over that every time it's mentioned.  Must be a pretty good argument we have there, @txradioguy.

That's because it is irrelevant.   @Bill Cipher said it better than me:

 
Quote
The law imposes duties on individuals to be responsible, and imposes fines and punishment for violations, in all areas of life.  Why should gun owners be some sacrosanct group not subject to the same rules car owners are subject to?




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That's why I bring up the subject of motor vehicles.   Registration, licensure and insurance has not led to confiscation.  Folks object to long lines at the DMV,  but not to the notion that with car ownership comes necessary responsibility.

I decline to indulge you in your paranoia.   

Cars are rarely dangerous to the State, and has been pointed out cars are not required to be registered or insured.  Go ahead and call me paranoid, I don't care as long as I can defend myself and family from the predations of evil people.
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Why do most folks accept the licensure, registration and insurance requirements for motor vehicle ownership to be reasonable?
While licensure of a motor vehicle is a tax (call a spade a spade), it is done for the following reasons;

It grants an easy means to check the ownership of the vehicle, in a central database.
Such vehicles are often left unattended, unsecured, and in the public domain where they are subject to theft.
It provides a ready means to identify a specific vehicle, provided the license plates are not tampered with, and a means to determine if those plates are tampered with by matching the plates to the type and color of the vehicle.
People accept that because of the risk of leaving that vehicle unattended in public places for long periods of time.
It also provides the means to identify vehicles used improperly, from a distance, and to identify those vehicles after the fact.
Licensure of drivers provides that they have attained a standard skill level commensurate with operating a vehicle in the public domain.
Insurance is to protect the investment the lien holder has in the vehicle, and to protect others from damages incurred as the result of improper operation of the vehicle. By the same token, it protects the operator from the full extent of pecuniary reparations to be made against the victims of their operation or other misfortune.

Because that property is subject to the full onslaught of questions of control, possession, unauthorized operation, natural disaster, and the vagaries of the skill and attentiveness of its operators, the owners of that property have generally complied with requirements imposed by lien holders or government to insure that property against damage, theft, or at the very least liability for operating it incorrectly. That compliance is hardly universal, and particularly absent among people who are here illegally.
 
There is no Constitutional Right to own nor operate an automobile, or for that matter, any other mode of conveyance.
 
We have a different standard for firearms.

Owners who have a substantial investment in their firearms will insure them against theft or loss, at their option. Similarly, many owners of firearms are insured against personal liability arising from their actions. Those who act improperly are subject to laws against doing so and any civil relief which may be obtained pursuant to violations of those laws or negligence relating thereto, although the affirmative defense is that the owners are not and cannot be liable for the unsanctioned criminal acts of others.
 
Firearms are not in the public domain, as a rule, not left unattended in the public domain ordinarily, and not individually accessible by the public. Nothing will make them more uniquely identifiable from a distance.
 
There is a Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms, a fundamental and enumerated Civil Right, and to tax or otherwise place  encumbrances on that right is to challenge the very Right itself. Other Civil Rights which were taxed have had those taxes overturned (poll taxes, for instance). Any such burden placed statutorily or otherwise becomes an infringement of the Right.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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