June 10th, United States will impose a 5% Tariff on all goods coming into the US from Mexico

[Applewood]

Let's say it costs $1,000 dollars to build a widget in Mexico. Building that same widget in the USA costs $2,000
dues to higher labor rates and environment related rules.  Now who in their right mind would ever buy the Made In
USA widget? So Mexico makes all the widgets, gets all the widget making jobs and Mexico get all the US money.
This is not at all good for the US economy but there is something the USA can do. The USA can put a tariff on
Mexican widgets so Mexican Widgets cost about as much as US widgets. Leveling the playing field so to speak. It
is what just about every other country does to our widgets so I am fine with using tariffs to gain a desired goal.

Those that only care about themselves and do not care about the country will say why should I pay $2,000 when
I could pay $1,000.  Back in the day the US knew tariffs were a good thing for the country and it's citizens. "If we
make IT here, we will have IT and we will have the money too".

Thing is, those "widgets" are no longer made in this country and, despite Trump's promises, they still won't be made in the US.  Only way manufacturing might come back to the US would be if the unions no longer have their power and that's not going to happen.  The Democrats will see to that. 

[libertybele]

@libertybele
I couldn't agree more.  Sorry I should have included a sarcasm tag with that last post.  The point I failed to make was Trump is failing spectacularly on the border.  He has made the problem worse with threats and promises he can't fulfill.

Undoubtedly he has made the problem worse for us, but you can almost bet he will come out of all of this profiting, BIGLY!

[corbe]

Let's say it costs $1,000 dollars to build a widget in Mexico. Building that same widget in the USA costs $2,000
dues to higher labor rates and environment related rules.  Now who in their right mind would ever buy the Made In
USA widget? So Mexico makes all the widgets, gets all the widget making jobs and Mexico get all the US money.
This is not at all good for the US economy but there is something the USA can do. The USA can put a tariff on
Mexican widgets so Mexican Widgets cost about as much as US widgets. Leveling the playing field so to speak. It
is what just about every other country does to our widgets so I am fine with using tariffs to gain a desired goal.

Those that only care about themselves and do not care about the country will say why should I pay $2,000 when
I could pay $1,000.  Back in the day the US knew tariffs were a good thing for the country and it's citizens. "If we
make IT here, we will have IT and we will have the money too".

   One important point you didn't mention @jpsb is that a significant part of the extra $1K that we pay for our widgets "made in USA'  goes to Labor Unions which donate 95% of their billions to elect democrats.  How is that any different than subsidizing the cartels in Mexico, not very much.

[Applewood]

   One important point you didn't mention @jpsb is that a significant part of the extra $1K that we pay for our widgets "made in USA'  goes to Labor Unions which donate 95% of their billions to elect democrats.  How is that any different than subsidizing the cartels in Mexico, not very much.

Egg-zactly!

[edpc]

Those that only care about themselves and do not care about the country will say why should I pay $2,000 when I could pay $1,000.  Back in the day the US knew tariffs were a good thing for the country and it's citizens. "If we make IT here, we will have IT and we will have the money too".

That’s absurd. You’re missing a key point. Placing a tariff on something to equal the playing field only makes that item more expensive. You’re incorrectly making the assumption that the consumption will remain the same, with increased cost. Conservatives always say, “If you want people to stop buying something, tax it.” That’s exactly what a tariff is.

People buy 70” flatscreen TVs, the latest iPhones, or a new sneaker style, because they can, not because they need. When you begin to make that item more expensive, people re-prioritize. We understand how this happens, when the left proposes a ridiculous minimum wage. Yet, we’re supposed to think tariffs are great, because ‘our guy’ says so.

[jpsb]

   One important point you didn't mention @jpsb is that a significant part of the extra $1K that we pay for our widgets "made in USA'  goes to Labor Unions which donate 95% of their billions to elect democrats.  How is that any different than subsidizing the cartels in Mexico, not very much.

There are lots of widgets made in right to work states, and IIRC the USSC ruled that union members that do not
want to pay union dues don't have to pay. So your point is mute. Tariffs keep jobs in the USA that would other
wise go over seas.

[corbe]

   I can remember when tariffs were used only as a tool in Trade negotiations, now they are being levied against countries to force them to do other things.  I anxiously look forward to the day when he put's a tariff on 'Black Robes' since it is judges that 'according to the Trumpers' are keeping him from fulfilling his promises to them about immigration.

[jpsb]

That’s absurd. You’re missing a key point. Placing a tariff on something to equal the playing field only makes that item more expensive. You’re incorrectly making the assumption that the consumption will remain the same, with increased cost. Conservatives always say, “If you want people to stop buying something, tax it.” That’s exactly what a tariff is.

People buy 70” flatscreen TVs, the latest iPhones, or a new sneaker style, because they can, not because they need. When you begin to make that item more expensive, people re-prioritize. We understand how this happens, when the left proposes a ridiculous minimum wage. Yet, we’re supposed to think tariffs are great, because ‘our guy’ says so.

I have long been a supporter of tariffs.  I studied US history and I saw how the US grew the greatest economy
the world even seen behind high tariff walls. That great economy has been hallowed out by this insanity called
"free trade". Every other country uses tariffs to protect their economy, we are being played for suckers by not
doing the same.

[Victoria33]

LINK TO FORBES ARTICLE:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2018/09/25/what-is-a-tariff-and-who-pays-it/#63cdf52b137b

[Free Vulcan]

Trump wasted his whole first term in office, particularly the first couple of years when he had a Republican majority in both houses of C congress.  Now that he has lost the house ,may well lose the senate and wants to run for a second term, he is making noises like he's really going to do something about the promises he made when he was running for his first term.   Only what he has been doing has been largely unsuccessful and particularly in the case of his trade war, about to destroy us.

That's a nice rewrite of history, but I seem to remember a Republican Congress and particularly Senate that would barely work with him and peel off to the other side whenever legislation to fix the problem was voted on, among other things.

(*cough* John McCain *cough*)

[Right_in_Virginia]

I just lost precious time I'll never get back reading through this "discussion".    It's been a while since I've had the time to do this during the day.  And, wow …. IMHO, our resident shut-ins are in desperate need of a change in scenery and a dose of fresh air just to loosen the mental cobwebs.  Truly.

Godspeed!

[Free Vulcan]

Thing is, those "widgets" are no longer made in this country and, despite Trump's promises, they still won't be made in the US.  Only way manufacturing might come back to the US would be if the unions no longer have their power and that's not going to happen.  The Democrats will see to that.

Manufacturing union power is way down from it's peak. That's why the Dems rely on govt unions now for their money.

Reality is raising tariffs will make our goods more competitive, albeit more expensive for the consumer. The offset of that will be more jobs and subsequent wages to afford it.

[corbe]

I just lost precious time I'll never get back reading through this "discussion".    It's been a while since I've had the time to do this during the day.  And, wow …. IMHO, our resident shut-ins are in desperate need of a change in scenery and a dose of fresh air just to loosen the mental cobwebs.  Truly.

Godspeed!

[edpc]

I have long been a supporter of tariffs.  I studied US history and I saw how the US grew the greatest economy the world even seen behind high tariff walls. That great economy has been hallowed out by this insanity called "free trade". Every other country uses tariffs to protect their economy, we are being played for suckers by not doing the same.

Then you really suck at history. We didn’t build a strong economy through tariffs. The reason why we were able to have such a strong economy is because we were largely untouched, by two major wars, in the 20th century, and were the last person standing. After we rebuilt other nations, we priced ourselves out of places, like the steel market and auto industry, because we didn’t modernize or build a good product.

[libertybele]

I just lost precious time I'll never get back reading through this "discussion".    It's been a while since I've had the time to do this during the day.  And, wow …. IMHO, our resident shut-ins are in desperate need of a change in scenery and a dose of fresh air just to loosen the mental cobwebs.  Truly.

Godspeed!

Do yourself a favor @Right_in_Virginia; heed your own words.  Get a change of scenery, get some fresh air and hopefully it will not only loosen your mental cobwebs but open your eyes to reality.

[jafo2010]

Unfortunately, Trump listened to Ryan and McConnell, and the Republicans pursued healthcare reform.  That was a mistake.  After that, I thinkk it is apparent that the Senate was never with Trump.  Other than the tax legislation, they haven't passed anything of note.  And sad to say, there are too many RINOs masquerading as Republicans that were really Democommies.

Trump needs a solid voting majority in both houses, which he never had, to affect the change he promised the American people.  If the American people continue to vote for the Democommies, they deserve every ounce of pain they shall receive, along with all the new taxes.

Fact is, the Democommies wish to turn America into what the USSR once was, and collapsed under.  Ah yes, the infamous AOC with her concept to pay people, even if they do not work.  That is right out of the USSR.  It is no mystery why they collapsed. 

It is unfortunate that AOC is clueless on history.  Perhaps in 50 years, she will know what I knew when I was 16.  The Three Stooges made more sense than the clowns in the Democommie Party.

[jpsb]

Then you really suck at history. We didn’t build a strong economy through tariffs. The reason why we were able to have such a strong economy is because we were largely untouched, by two major wars, in the 20th century, and were the last person standing. After we rebuilt other nations, we priced ourselves out of places, like the steel market and auto industry, because we didn’t modernize or build a good product.

Revisionist history why were we called the "arsenal of democracy" at the start of WW2? Hint, because we had
the manufacturing capability to produce all the arms Britain and Russia needed to fight Axis powers plus the
ability to rearm our Army, Navy and Air Core. That economy was built from 1865 to 1941 behind tariffs walls. I'd
rather see Americans with jobs then sent money to China so they can build a strong military to attack us. 

WW1 (a horrible war) was largely trench warfare and bomber were rare. So French, English, Russia
manufacturing was not affected. Unlike WW2 where a nation economy was targeted and destroyed.
Look at how quickly Germany rebuilt it armed forces after WW1.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Do yourself a favor @Right_in_Virginia; heed your own words.  Get a change of scenery, get some fresh air and hopefully it will not only loosen your mental cobwebs but open your eyes to reality.

Hey @libertybele --- Ping me when you have an original thought --- but don't throw a tantrum if I miss it over the next couple of  hours.   We'll be sitting down to some fresh seafood and maybe a Bloody Mary or two harborside ---  and all electronics will be left behind.     

[Victoria33]

That’s absurd. You’re missing a key point. Placing a tariff on something to equal the playing field only makes that item more expensive. You’re incorrectly making the assumption that the consumption will remain the same, with increased cost. Conservatives always say, “If you want people to stop buying something, tax it.” That’s exactly what a tariff is.   People buy 70” flatscreen TVs, the latest iPhones, or a new sneaker style, because they can, not because they need. When you begin to make that item more expensive, people re-prioritize. We understand how this happens, when the left proposes a ridiculous minimum wage. Yet, we’re supposed to think tariffs are great, because ‘our guy’ says so.

@edpc

The Forbes article says; "...a tariff put on a product coming into this country, made by China or Mexico or any other country, American citizens will pay the tariff as the price of these products will be higher.  A tariff is a tax on imported goods. Despite what the president says, it is almost always paid directly by the importer (usually a domestic firm), and never by the exporting country. Thus, if the U.S. imposes a tariff on Chinese televisions, the duty is paid to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Service at the border by a U.S. broker representing a U.S. importer, say, Costco. The Chinese government pays nothing, just as the U.S. government pays no tax to Canada for that nation’s tariffs on imported dairy products."

We will definitely have to pay more for almost everything we use.  Look at where the product comes from the next time you buy something.  Trump is responsible for all these products costing us more.  There are also numerous economic problems that will affect our country due to Trump's tariffs.  I urge you to read the Forbes article to know what the economic problems are.  Trump needs to go before the country fails and I strongly say that.  The country is headed to chaos when the last butterfly wings flap causing unstoppable chaos.

[GrouchoTex]

US widget maker @ $2000.00 claims his widget is better that the $1000.00 widget you can get from China or Mexico.
He is probably right.
Lean manufacturing processes and automation, he now can make the worlds best widgets, with 1/3 to 1/4 the manpower he did 10 to 20 years ago.
Being local, he can take care of consumer issues and fix the situation with local customer service.
When tariffs are applied to make his competitors sell their widgets $ 2000.00, the US manufacturer will raise their price to more than $2000.00.
Why not? They are better than everyone else at it.
The US manufacturer still doesn't sell as many, but he sells them to exclusive high-end widget user.
This is the economic reality now.
Things are available in the US, if you want to pay for them.
If you can't, there are cheaper alternatives elsewhere.

Why will the US Widget maker raise his prices?
One reason is listed above, some will pay extra for the quality and service.
Also, he himself is a user of widgets, other widgets that are also subject to tariffs, besides the ones he makes, as are his employees, and they have to increase their revenue (and payroll) so they can still enjoy widgets, too.

 

[libertybele]

Hey @libertybele --- Ping me when you have an original thought --- but don't throw a tantrum if I miss it over the next couple of  hours.   We'll be sitting down to some fresh seafood and maybe a Bloody Mary or two harborside ---  and all electronics will be left behind.     

Na don't bother.  Until you get your head out of the sand and face reality, no point.  BTW ... enjoy your Bloody Mary and have a wonderful day!   

[TomSea]

Mexico is already trying to remedy this.

Fine with me, if we stiff foreign adversaries such as China and Cuba. And while, we don't exactly consider Mexico that, their workers send back millions if not billions to the interior every year. As said, our system is flawed and faulty.  We should not bow to their corrupt system and system that in some ways, severely restricts human rights. We won't do away with all of that but we can try to some.

[Sanguine]

After catching up on this thread, I see the consensus is "orange man bad".   

[TomSea]

I believe Gorka and others say, Trump could be trying to get richer himself without drawing the ire of the frothing-at-the-mouth left and conniving lowlife press (not all of them, maybe not even the majority), so, he doesn't really have a thankful job at Prez. Yes, I'm sure living in the WH, AF1 are all pretty exciting to do.

[libertybele]

Mexico is already trying to remedy this.

Fine with me, if we stiff foreign adversaries such as China and Cuba. And while, we don't exactly consider Mexico that, there workers send back millions if not billions to the interior every year. As said, our system is flawed and faulty.  We should not bow to their corrupt system and system that in some ways, severely restricts human rights. We won't do away with all of that but we can try to some.

Link???