Author Topic: Should this airman receive the Medal of Honor for Laos battle? A congressman thinks so  (Read 506 times)

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rangerrebew

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Should this airman receive the Medal of Honor for Laos battle? A congressman thinks so
By: Stephen Losey  

A California congressman is pushing to upgrade a retired Air Force colonel’s Air Force Cross to a Medal of Honor for “extraordinary heroism” during a fierce 1969 battle in Laos.

Rep. Salud Carbajal, D-California, on Monday introduced a bill, HR 2330, that would authorize the president to upgrade Col. Philip Conran’s Air Force Cross to the nation’s highest award for valor.

On Oct. 6, 1969, as the United States’ war in Vietnam spilled over into Laos, then-Maj. Philip Conran was part of a mission that went south when a helicopter was shot down, according to a narrative provided by Carbajal’s staff. Conran took charge during the rescue attempt, and repeatedly put himself at risk to save 44 of his fellow troops, according to the legislation.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/04/17/should-this-airman-receive-the-medal-of-honor-for-laos-battle-a-congressman-thinks-so/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ebb%2004.18.19&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Military%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 11:12:24 am by rangerrebew »

rangerrebew

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Letting congressional people get involved in who gets what medal and pretty soon everyone will be getting CMHs for injuries sustained while taking a shower.  They will overuse the system and cheapen the medals.  Medals for votes. :thumbsdown:

Offline sneakypete

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Should this airman receive the Medal of Honor for Laos battle? A congressman thinks so
By: Stephen Losey  

A California congressman is pushing to upgrade a retired Air Force colonel’s Air Force Cross to a Medal of Honor for “extraordinary heroism” during a fierce 1969 battle in Laos.

Rep. Salud Carbajal, D-California, on Monday introduced a bill, HR 2330, that would authorize the president to upgrade Col. Philip Conran’s Air Force Cross to the nation’s highest award for valor.

On Oct. 6, 1969, as the United States’ war in Vietnam spilled over into Laos, then-Maj. Philip Conran was part of a mission that went south when a helicopter was shot down, according to a narrative provided by Carbajal’s staff. Conran took charge during the rescue attempt, and repeatedly put himself at risk to save 44 of his fellow troops, according to the legislation.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/04/17/should-this-airman-receive-the-medal-of-honor-for-laos-battle-a-congressman-thinks-so/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ebb%2004.18.19&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Military%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief

The reporting on this is more than a little confused. Even though no mention is made of who the troops were they were supporting,they were US and indigenous troops out of the SF camp (CCS) at Ban Me Tout,VN. It was a MACV-SOG ground operation. I know this because that helicopter squadron only flew troop missions in support of SOG operations.

The writing was so confused and uninformative that I have a hard time picturing what actually went on,but I WILL say this. The award of the Air Force Cross is only below the Medal of Honor,and nothing to be sneezed at. Basically,the only way you get an Air Force Cross is to be recommended for a Medal of Honor,and be turned down. People are usually turned down for reasons having nothing to do with their courage. It is almost always due to lack of eye witness documentation,and in the case of missions into Laos and Cambodia,"we" (US combat troops) were "never there" officially until late in the war,so if you got put in for a high valor award like the MoH that might draw public/press attention,you had to be written up for the action saying it happened inside VN,NOT Cambodia or Laos. The only way this would work is if there had been a conventional US Army or USMC unit in ground battle with VC or NVA forces close to the VN/Cambodia/Laos border that same day,and the recommendation would read "While in support of a mission to aid the 1st Infantry Division in battle with VC or NVA forces near the VN/Cambodian or VN/Laotian border near the town of xxxx in xxxx providence,........"

If there were no conventional US forces in battle near the Cambodian or Laotion border that day,you wouldn't even get written up for anything higher than a Bronze Star because it would be denied by the REMF clerks or brass who honestly had no idea US forces were fighting inside Laos and Cambodia,and since "we weren't there",how can we be earning valor awards for fights we were never involved in?

Truth to tell,he was damned lucky to get the Air Force Cross. If you think I am kidding,do a web search on Air Force Crosses awarded during the VN war and see for yourself how few were awarded.  Air Force Crosses are rare and are a VERY big deal.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 03:43:09 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Letting congressional people get involved in who gets what medal and pretty soon everyone will be getting CMHs for injuries sustained while taking a shower.  They will overuse the system and cheapen the medals.  Medals for votes. :thumbsdown:

@rangerrebew

Yup! Congresscritters would tend to support ANY MoH claim because of all the positive press it would bring THEM.

Frankly I am surprised Bubbette! didn't get a Medal of Honor for dodging sniper fire at the airport in Bosnia. Especially after she became a US Senator.
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Offline skeeter

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The reporting on this is more than a little confused. Even though no mention is made of who the troops were they were supporting,they were US and indigenous troops out of the SF camp (CCS) at Ban Me Tout,VN. It was a MACV-SOG ground operation. I know this because that helicopter squadron only flew troop missions in support of SOG operations.

The writing was so confused and uninformative that I have a hard time picturing what actually went on,but I WILL say this. The award of the Air Force Cross is only below the Medal of Honor,and nothing to be sneezed at. Basically,the only way you get an Air Force Cross is to be recommended for a Medal of Honor,and be turned down. People are usually turned down for reasons having nothing to do with their courage. It is almost always due to lack of eye witness documentation,and in the case of missions into Laos and Cambodia,"we" (US combat troops) were "never there" officially until late in the war,so if you got put in for a high valor award like the MoH that might draw public/press attention,you had to be written up for the action saying it happened inside VN,NOT Cambodia or Laos. The only way this would work is if there had been a conventional US Army or USMC unit in ground battle with VC or NVA forces close to the VN/Cambodia/Laos border that same day,and the recommendation would read "While in support of a mission to aid the 1st Infantry Division in battle with VC or NVA forces near the VN/Cambodian or VN/Laotian border near the town of xxxx in xxxx providence,........"

If there were no conventional US forces in battle near the Cambodian or Laotion border that day,you wouldn't even get written up for anything higher than a Bronze Star because it would be denied by the REMF clerks or brass who honestly had no idea US forces were fighting inside Laos and Cambodia,and since "we weren't there",how can we be earning valor awards for fights we were never involved in?

Truth to tell,he was damned lucky to get the Air Force Cross. If you think I am kidding,do a web search on Air Force Crosses awarded during the VN war and see for yourself how few were awarded.  Air Force Crosses are rare and are a VERY big deal.

Although I'm far from an authority on VN combat, I've read enough accounts to know this sort of courage was pretty common given the conditions of that war.

Offline sneakypete

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Although I'm far from an authority on VN combat, I've read enough accounts to know this sort of courage was pretty common given the conditions of that war.

@skeeter

It wasn't "common" in any sense of the word,or the people who served there wouldn't have been so impressed with his actions that they bothered to write him up for the medal.

Yeah,this sort of thing happened fairly often,but when you consider the number of helicopter missions flown on a daily basis,the "courage under intense fire" incidents are fairly rare.

BTW,I flew in and out of Laos and Cambodia on a number of combat missions with SOG,and was never in a helicopter that was shot down.  Ironically enough,I DID fly in two helicopters that were shot down after I got off of them,and neither were flying combat missions. Both were just scheduled daily flights to deliver mail. They weren't even armed,and flew with the doors shut. Both were shot down leaving the places they took me.

The lesson to be learned here is you can NOT fly into or out of a place in a combat zone every day on a set route at a set time,or bad things will happen to you.
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