President Trump's Rumored Potential Border Wall Deal Sounds Like Disastrous 1986 Immigration Comprom

[libertybele]

No, @Sanguine, and my apologies for that.   The post I was thinking of that "demonized" illegal immigrants was libertybelle's, not yours.   You posted following my response to LB with your link to an article noting, in its breathless headline, that SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT of illegals had committed felonies.    The study notwithstanding, the article you linked to struck me as having the characteristics of most agenda-driven media coverage these days -  a headline designed to incite,  that upon further inspection isn't that big a deal.   So illegals come here to work, and get false SSNs to do so.   Not ideal, of course,  but hardly a refutation of my point that most come here to work and support their families, not commit murder and mayhem.

You can argue all day long that most ILLEGALS are here to work; try telling that to the victim of illegal's families.  ILLEGALS do NOT belong here.  They came her ILLEGALLY period.  They broke the law entering this country to begin with. There is also no debate that would ever convince me that we should give blanket amnesty to ILLEGALS, nor is there any argument that you could give me as to why we should not protect the sovereignty of this country, our borders and the citizens of this country.

I have the utmost compassion for the citizens of this country.  They come FIRST. I have little compassion for those who break our laws, use their children as pawns, and feel that they are entitled. I could go on about how LaRaza enters into all this, but that is a whole other subject.

Back during the 'W' administration I was more active in fighting illegal immigration  -- the stats back then (and I wished I had kept the files) showed that there were 20,000,000 illegals .... and that figure was considered conservative because of chain migration and birthright citizenship.  The current stats still estimate that there are appx. 20,000,000 illegals.  I'm not buying it.  I'd say conservatively that the figure has doubled.

Again, your choice.  Either we secure this country or we become another Europe where countries have been significantly transformed, and definitely not for the better.

[Jazzhead]

You can argue all day long that most ILLEGALS are here to work; try telling that to the victim of illegal's families.  ILLEGALS do NOT belong here.  They came her ILLEGALLY period.  They broke the law entering this country to begin with. There is also no debate that would ever convince me that we should give blanket amnesty to ILLEGALS, nor is there any argument that you could give me as to why we should not protect the sovereignty of this country, our borders and the citizens of this country.

I have the utmost compassion for the citizens of this country.  They come FIRST. I have little compassion for those who break our laws, use their children as pawns, and feel that they are entitled. I could go on about how LaRaza enters into all this, but that is a whole other subject.

Back during the 'W' administration I was more active in fighting illegal immigration  -- the stats back then (and I wished I had kept the files) showed that there were 20,000,000 illegals .... and that figure was considered conservative because of chain migration and birthright citizenship.  The current stats still estimate that there are appx. 20,000,000 illegals.  I'm not buying it.  I'd say conservatively that the figure has doubled.

Again, your choice.  Either we secure this country or we become another Europe where countries have been significantly transformed, and definitely not for the better.

I support securing our borders and reforming our immigration laws.   I understand your position.   I strongly disagree with it because I believe it is cruel and unjust, and because demonization is no path to a solution.   

The choice is to make the hard choices needed to solve the problem, or else maintain the status quo.   Whether you know it or not,  your uncompromising approach marks you as an effective advocate for the latter.     

[libertybele]

I support securing our borders and reforming our immigration laws.   I understand your position.   I strongly disagree with it because I believe it is cruel and unjust, and because demonization is no path to a solution.   

The choice is to make the hard choices needed to solve the problem, or else maintain the status quo.   Whether you know it or not,  your uncompromising approach marks you as an effective advocate for the latter.     

You are for the side of the poor illegals and I am on the side of the poor U.S. citizens.  Americans FIRST!!  Wanting mass deportation, a wall, enforcement of existing immigration laws and a moratorium on ALL migration is hardly remaining status quo.

1.  Moratorium on ALL migration until we have sufficient laws in place and those that will enforce them.

2.  ALL illegals have one chance to come forward and become registered.  They will be returned to their country of origin and will have a chance at a later period of time enter this country through legal means at their own expense.  Those that have not registered and are caught, will be returned to their country of origin with NO chance of legal entry.

3.  A wall must be built and enforced by adequate personnel and adequate defense mechanisms.

4.  Birthright citizenship and chain migration must end.

5.  Those caught hiring ILLEGALS will face a mandatory jail sentence of 5 years; with no chance of a reduced sentence.

6.  Medicaid, Medicare, and food stamps must be stopped to ALL those who are identified as ILLEGAL.

This IS fair and just to the citizens of the U.S.  Just think of all the $$ that will be saved and could be re-invested back into the welfare of this country.

[txradioguy]

You are for the side of the poor illegals and I am on the side of the poor U.S. citizens.  Americans FIRST!!  Wanting mass deportation, a wall, enforcement of existing immigration laws and a moratorium on ALL migration is hardly remaining status quo.

1.  Moratorium on ALL migration until we have sufficient laws in place and those that will enforce them.

2.  ALL illegals have one chance to come forward and become registered.  They will be returned to their country of origin and will have a chance at a later period of time enter this country through legal means at their own expense.  Those that have not registered and are caught, will be returned to their country of origin with NO chance of legal entry.

3.  A wall must be built and enforced by adequate personnel and adequate defense mechanisms.

4.  Birthright citizenship and chain migration must end.

5.  Those caught hiring ILLEGALS will face a mandatory jail sentence of 5 years; with no chance of a reduced sentence.

6.  Medicaid, Medicare, and food stamps must be stopped to ALL those who are identified as ILLEGAL.

This IS fair and just to the citizens of the U.S.  Just think of all the $$ that will be saved and could be re-invested back into the welfare of this country.

QFT   

[roamer_1]

LOL!

When you elected Trump you handed the country to the Dems. Trump is a wrecking ball that has gutted what was left of the GOP.

That's right.

[Sanguine]

No, @Sanguine, and my apologies for that.   The post I was thinking of that "demonized" illegal immigrants was libertybelle's, not yours.   You posted following my response to LB with your link to an article noting, in its breathless headline, that SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT of illegals had committed felonies.    The study notwithstanding, the article you linked to struck me as having the characteristics of most agenda-driven media coverage these days -  a headline designed to incite,  that upon further inspection isn't that big a deal.   So illegals come here to work, and get false SSNs to do so.   Not ideal, of course,  but hardly a refutation of my point that most come here to work and support their families, not commit murder and mayhem.

Thanks for the clarification, @Jazzhead.  However, there are many reasons other than working to get a fake SSN, such as claiming the earned income credit, enrolling children in school and applying for public assistance. 

[Sanguine]

LOL!

When you elected Trump you handed the country to the Dems. Trump is a wrecking ball that has gutted what was left of the GOP.

I would argue that the GOP needs some gutting.  I don't think Trump has been that effective as you seem to.

[DB]

I would argue that the GOP needs some gutting.  I don't think Trump has been that effective as you seem to.

He's not done.

[Sanguine]

He's not done.

So, go Trump, go!

 

[Formerly Once-Ler]

You are for the side of the poor illegals and I am on the side of the poor U.S. citizens.  Americans FIRST!!  Wanting mass deportation, a wall, enforcement of existing immigration laws and a moratorium on ALL migration is hardly remaining status quo.

1.  Moratorium on ALL migration until we have sufficient laws in place and those that will enforce them.

2.  ALL illegals have one chance to come forward and become registered.  They will be returned to their country of origin and will have a chance at a later period of time enter this country through legal means at their own expense.  Those that have not registered and are caught, will be returned to their country of origin with NO chance of legal entry.

3.  A wall must be built and enforced by adequate personnel and adequate defense mechanisms.

4.  Birthright citizenship and chain migration must end.

5.  Those caught hiring ILLEGALS will face a mandatory jail sentence of 5 years; with no chance of a reduced sentence.

6.  Medicaid, Medicare, and food stamps must be stopped to ALL those who are identified as ILLEGAL.

This IS fair and just to the citizens of the U.S.  Just think of all the $$ that will be saved and could be re-invested back into the welfare of this country.

Nice list.  We don't get that stuff.  We get shutdown, partisanship, and President Demento.  Enjoy.

[libertybele]

Nice list.  We don't get that stuff.  We get shutdown, partisanship, and President Demento.  Enjoy.

Yes, it is a nice list. I'm on the side of the U.S.A.  We'll find out very shortly where Trump and the new Senate majority stand.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I'm on the side of the U.S.A. 

You claim to speak for the USA.

[libertybele]

You claim to speak for the USA.

Oh that's right, I forgot you want open borders and this President to fail.   

[Idaho_Cowboy]

You can argue all day long that most ILLEGALS are here to work; try telling that to the victim of illegal's families.  ILLEGALS do NOT belong here.  They came her ILLEGALLY period.  They broke the law entering this country to begin with. There is also no debate that would ever convince me that we should give blanket amnesty to ILLEGALS, nor is there any argument that you could give me as to why we should not protect the sovereignty of this country, our borders and the citizens of this country.

I have the utmost compassion for the citizens of this country.  They come FIRST. I have little compassion for those who break our laws, use their children as pawns, and feel that they are entitled. I could go on about how LaRaza enters into all this, but that is a whole other subject.

Back during the 'W' administration I was more active in fighting illegal immigration  -- the stats back then (and I wished I had kept the files) showed that there were 20,000,000 illegals .... and that figure was considered conservative because of chain migration and birthright citizenship.  The current stats still estimate that there are appx. 20,000,000 illegals.  I'm not buying it.  I'd say conservatively that the figure has doubled.

Again, your choice.  Either we secure this country or we become another Europe where countries have been significantly transformed, and definitely not for the better.

6-12% of the population of the US? If true I wonder what the percentage of folks on welfare and food stamps. If we just made you prove your legality to get welfare and food stamps a lot of this problem would take care of itself.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Oh that's right, I forgot you want open borders and this President to fail.   

I'm used to failing memories from the Trump side.  It's not what I want.  It is what I expect to happen.

[Jazzhead]

Yes, it is a nice list. I'm on the side of the U.S.A.  We'll find out very shortly where Trump and the new Senate majority stand.

You accuse Once-ler for wanting the President to fail,  but it's the uncompromising position of nativists like yourself that are causing him to reject potential deals that get more funding for border security and effect other needed changes in the immigration laws.    It is folly to ignore the reality that decades of lax enforcement have led to tens of millions of illegals working and raising their families here.   Any changes that conservatives want in the immigration laws are going to happen only in the spirit of compromise regarding what to do with the millions who've been here for years.   Some kind of normalization or amnesty is going to happen,  or nothing will get done and the "evils" you decry will persist, unresolved. 

Extremists are big on talk, but are afraid of real action.   They thump their chests proclaiming they're "for the USA",  yet threaten to withdraw their support for the President if he dares to compromise as all leaders must to achieve their priorities.    Rhetoric like yours simply sets up the President to fail. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

You accuse Once-ler for wanting the President to fail,  but it's the uncompromising position of nativists like yourself that are causing him to reject potential deals that get more funding for border security and effect other needed changes in the immigration laws.    It is folly to ignore the reality that decades of lax enforcement have led to tens of millions of illegals working and raising their families here.   Any changes that conservatives want in the immigration laws are going to happen only in the spirit of compromise regarding what to do with the millions who've been here for years.   Some kind of normalization or amnesty is going to happen,  or nothing will get done and the "evils" you decry will persist, unresolved. 

Extremists are big on talk, but are afraid of real action.   They thump their chests proclaiming they're "for the USA",  yet threaten to withdraw their support for the President if he dares to compromise as all leaders must to achieve their priorities.    Rhetoric like yours simply sets up the President to fail.

@libertybele  Ping me if you'd like some help answering this liberal.   

[edpc]

You accuse Once-ler for wanting the President to fail,  but it's the uncompromising position of nativists like yourself that are causing him to reject potential deals that get more funding for border security and effect other needed changes in the immigration laws.

The silliest part about all of this is that it will likely result in funding for a barrier, a pathway to citizenship for DACA kids, and restrictions to chain migration. These are all things he could’ve had this time last year, but opted to wait for a SCOTUS ruling. They just recently declined to hear the case in their upcoming session. By accepting the deal, last January, some on the right would have been disappointed, but nothing would have changed. The Senate would still remain in Republican control and the House would have been lost. The aggravation and optics of this current shut down could have been avoided.

[libertybele]

6-12% of the population of the US? If true I wonder what the percentage of folks on welfare and food stamps. If we just made you prove your legality to get welfare and food stamps a lot of this problem would take care of itself.

Here is what many do not consider.  'Non -citizens' make up approximately 43.3 million foreign-born people who live in the United States. Broken down by immigration status, the foreign-born population includes 20.7 million naturalized U.S. citizens and 22.6 million non citizens.  So clearly that 22.6 million non-citizen figure differs greatly from the 11 million considered illegal.  Why the difference??

Most current stats are showing 3.7% of the total population is illegal which indeed differs from 6-12% of the population, but there is also a discrepancy in what is considered 'illegal' status and how they are counted.  For example; children that were brought in by Bammy by busloads and then placed throughout the U.S. are not considered 'illegal' but 'misplaced'.  Those coming across our borders illegally and then requesting asylum, are not categorized and counted then as 'illegals' but given refugee status.  Secondly, those here illegally aren't exactly going to come out of the shadows so to speak and be counted.  Also keep in mind that the Census questionnaire that is sent out is not allowed to ask about citizenship.  The term 'undocumented' is used in lieu of illegal, but how many 'undocumented' people are here? 

Quick stats indicate that in 2014, in California, illegals account for over 6% of the population, Florida 4%, Texas 6%, Arizona  5% and Nevada 7%. That's 5 years ago.   I also found stats that indicated that in 2012 DHS stated that their were 11.4 million illegals.  So that would mean that the number of illegals decreased in a two year period?  Not buying into it, especially since we have witnessed this year thousands coming across in caravans ... waiting for 'asylum' again -- they will not be counted as 'illegal' or 'undocumented'.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/reports/2017/04/20/430736/facts-immigration-today-2017-edition/

[Jazzhead]

@libertybele  Ping me if you'd like some help answering this liberal.   

So you're another looking for the President to fail?    Fact is,  there was a deal last year that would have gotten President Trump his wall funding and normalized the Dreamers, but he reneged because of pressure from his nativist "base".    Now the government's shut down and I bet he wishes he'd taken that deal last year.   

The GOP is united on wanting more effective border security, but it's only a minority who supports LB's brand of arbitrary cruelty.   But that minority is loud and insistent, and has effectively intimidated the President.    And so here we are.   

[Jazzhead]

The silliest part about all of this is that it will likely result in funding for a barrier, a pathway to citizenship for DACA kids, and restrictions to chain migration. These are all things he could’ve had this time last year, but opted to wait for a SCOTUS ruling. They just recently declined to hear the case in their upcoming session. By accepting the deal, last January, some on the right would have been disappointed, but nothing would have changed. The Senate would still remain in Republican control and the House would have been lost. The aggravation and optics of this current shut down could have been avoided.

Better said than I could.   

[libertybele]

You accuse Once-ler for wanting the President to fail,  but it's the uncompromising position of nativists like yourself that are causing him to reject potential deals that get more funding for border security and effect other needed changes in the immigration laws.    It is folly to ignore the reality that decades of lax enforcement have led to tens of millions of illegals working and raising their families here.   Any changes that conservatives want in the immigration laws are going to happen only in the spirit of compromise regarding what to do with the millions who've been here for years.   Some kind of normalization or amnesty is going to happen,  or nothing will get done and the "evils" you decry will persist, unresolved. 

Extremists are big on talk, but are afraid of real action.   They thump their chests proclaiming they're "for the USA",  yet threaten to withdraw their support for the President if he dares to compromise as all leaders must to achieve their priorities.    Rhetoric like yours simply sets up the President to fail.

@Jazzhead I definitely am on the side of the U.S. citizen and for the sovereignty of our country, therefore, yes, I do want this president to succeed. Again, I have given him credit when due, and there to me is no question that he has moved this country in a more positive direction.  That doesn't mean I have to support him on EVERY single issue.  I have no problem on compromising on many issues, but the sovereignty of our country and the 2A IMHO are not negotiable.

To say I am setting his president up to fail is absolutely absurd. 

[libertybele]

I'm used to failing memories from the Trump side.  It's not what I want.  It is what I expect to happen.

Understood and I apologize. 

[libertybele]

The silliest part about all of this is that it will likely result in funding for a barrier, a pathway to citizenship for DACA kids, and restrictions to chain migration. These are all things he could’ve had this time last year, but opted to wait for a SCOTUS ruling. They just recently declined to hear the case in their upcoming session. By accepting the deal, last January, some on the right would have been disappointed, but nothing would have changed. The Senate would still remain in Republican control and the House would have been lost. The aggravation and optics of this current shut down could have been avoided.

Absolutely.

[libertybele]

So you're another looking for the President to fail?    Fact is,  there was a deal last year that would have gotten President Trump his wall funding and normalized the Dreamers, but he reneged because of pressure from his nativist "base".    Now the government's shut down and I bet he wishes he'd taken that deal last year.   

The GOP is united on wanting more effective border security, but it's only a minority who supports LB's brand of arbitrary cruelty.   But that minority is loud and insistent, and has effectively intimidated the President.    And so here we are.

Enough @Jazzhead ...quit stating that people in here want the President to fail.  That's complete b.s. and you know it.

Arbitrary cruelty is having American citizens, murdered, gang raped, sodomized, beaten, burned, tortured, etc.,  by people who shouldn't be here in the first place and our gov't allowing them to continue to pour over our borders!! 

I'm done with you... back on ignore!