President Trump's Rumored Potential Border Wall Deal Sounds Like Disastrous 1986 Immigration Comprom

[roamer_1]

I'm totally on board with the conservative side.  I'm not on board with pie in the sky expectations which are self-defeating and get in the way of realistic progress.

And none of the things you want can be accomplished if we fail to support Trump and weaken him to the point that the democrats get elected in 2020.

Where would all your ideas be then?

Neither do we win a damn thing in capitulating.

[jpsb]

I can't answer that.  Maybe a red herring?

For an illegal, serving in our armed forces does not automatically make you a citizen.

[Sanguine]

For an illegal, serving in our armed forces does not automatically make you a citizen.

No, the illegal still has to go through some steps to do so, but it's definitely a path to citizenship.  What's your problem with that?

[roamer_1]

For an illegal, serving in our armed forces does not automatically make you a citizen.

Who said anything about serving in our armed forces?
We were talking about combat vets explicitly.
Not general issue, and not in-theater... Combat vets.

[Sanguine]

Who said anything about serving in our armed forces?
We were talking about combat vets explicitly.
Not general issue, and not in-theater... Combat vets.

Those darned goalposts keep bobbing and weaving.

[Emjay]

@Emjay
As I said to you (yesterday?)

There is much to be gained by pushing for more, and not just bowing in fealty to whatever trump throws out today.

Not sure what you mean by that.  Trump offered a reasonable compromise which Pelosi has rejected out of hand.  They want permanent status for DACA.

I've read that a small group of democrats in the house are urging Pelosi to reconsider but those democrats need to watch their backs.

What is the point in pushing for a better compromise when they are already rejecting the one offered.

Look, I would like a better compromise but with Pelosi ruling the House, I don't know what we can reasonably expect.

And your 'bowing in fealty' comment is way out of line.

I do respect Trump and I think he is doing the very best he can to achieve some compromise on this ugly situation.

But to characterize it as you did is way out of line.

[jpsb]

No, the illegal still has to go through some steps to do so, but it's definitely a path to citizenship.  What's your problem with that?

I don't think the military knowingly accepts illegal aliens. It does accept legal residents that are not citizens and they (legal residents) can earn citizenship that way. Some of these DACA folks might not
even know they are not citizens. I wonder how many DACA folks served? I am going to google that
maybe there is a stat on it.

[jpsb]

900 DACA people currently serving.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/09/07/trump-administration-struggles-fate-900-dreamers-serving-military/640637001/

[Sanguine]

900 DACA people currently serving.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/09/07/trump-administration-struggles-fate-900-dreamers-serving-military/640637001/

So, what is your point?  Why did you bring combat vets into the discussion? 

[Axeslinger]

Not sure what you mean by that.  Trump offered a reasonable compromise which Pelosi has rejected out of hand.  They want permanent status for DACA.

I've read that a small group of democrats in the house are urging Pelosi to reconsider but those democrats need to watch their backs.

What is the point in pushing for a better compromise when they are already rejecting the one offered.

Look, I would like a better compromise but with Pelosi ruling the House, I don't know what we can reasonably expect.

And your 'bowing in fealty' comment is way out of line.

I do respect Trump and I think he is doing the very best he can to achieve some compromise on this ugly situation.

But to characterize it as you did is way out of line.

@Emjay

When they reject it out of hand, you move the goal posts back further and then you scream from the bully pulpit and get people to see it your way.  You don’t say, “oh shucks, guess you beat me this time...here let me fold like a cheap suit”. (Not saying he’s there yet, but he’s charting that course). I’d think a master deal maker could figure that out.  You play hardball.

And if you are not willing to hold HIS feet to the fire like that and push for the best deal WE can get right up until the moment the deal is signed, then yes, you are bowing in fealty and taking whatever scraps he is willing to throw your way.

[jpsb]

So, what is your point?  Why did you bring combat vets into the discussion?

I was responding to someone that wants to deport all of the DACA people


I am being a realist. Should the GOP adopt the policies you advocate they'd be a minority party for generations.

So you want to deport someone brought here as a two year old, that served in the Army, a combat vet
that is now a college educated STEM worker? Good luck with that.

[Axeslinger]

I was responding to someone that wants to deport all of the DACA people


I am being a realist. Should the GOP adopt the policies you advocate they'd be a minority party for generations.

So you want to deport someone brought here as a two year old, that served in the Army, a combat vet
that is now a college educated STEM worker? Good luck with that.

@jpsb

Here’s the rub:  if they don’t adopt those policies or something nearly as robust, THEY WILL BE A MINORITY PARTY FOR GENEATIONS ANYHOW!

That’s WHY this fight is so important!

[jpsb]

@jpsb

Here’s the rub:  if they don’t adopt those policies or something nearly as robust, THEY WILL BE A MINORITY PARTY FOR GENEATIONS ANYHOW!

That’s WHY this fight is so important!

I been in this fight A LOT LONGER then most here.

If you think the USA should or is going to deport all the DACA people you're crazy.

The first order of business is to stop illegal entry into the USA. And the wall is a big part of how we
do that.

[Sanguine]

I was responding to someone that wants to deport all of the DACA people


I am being a realist. Should the GOP adopt the policies you advocate they'd be a minority party for generations.

So you want to deport someone brought here as a two year old, that served in the Army, a combat vet
that is now a college educated STEM worker? Good luck with that.

If they are in the U.S. military their DACA status is irrelevant. 

[jpsb]

If they are in the U.S. military their DACA status is irrelevant.

No they can still be deported and there are plenty of people here that want them to be deported.

[libertybele]

@Emjay

When they reject it out of hand, you move the goal posts back further and then you scream from the bully pulpit and get people to see it your way.  You don’t say, “oh shucks, guess you beat me this time...here let me fold like a cheap suit”. (Not saying he’s there yet, but he’s charting that course). I’d think a master deal maker could figure that out.  You play hardball.

And if you are not willing to hold HIS feet to the fire like that and push for the best deal WE can get right up until the moment the deal is signed, then yes, you are bowing in fealty and taking whatever scraps he is willing to throw your way.

   Absolutlely!!

[Sanguine]

No they can still be deported and there are plenty of people here that want them to be deported.

No, not if they are following the rules and not breaking any laws they can't.

[Chosen Daughter]

This is the only thing I agree with you about in this.

I have long opined that one who serves honorably as a combat soldier has already proved himself a citizen and patriot, having been proven by trial in the worst sort of crucible. Far worse than any test a mere bureaucracy might devise.

Certainly all the more so for a decorated combat soldier...

I also can agree with that.

[Emjay]

@Emjay

When they reject it out of hand, you move the goal posts back further and then you scream from the bully pulpit and get people to see it your way.  You don’t say, “oh shucks, guess you beat me this time...here let me fold like a cheap suit”. (Not saying he’s there yet, but he’s charting that course). I’d think a master deal maker could figure that out.  You play hardball.

And if you are not willing to hold HIS feet to the fire like that and push for the best deal WE can get right up until the moment the deal is signed, then yes, you are bowing in fealty and taking whatever scraps he is willing to throw your way.

Well, I could urge Trump to offer something that would please you, but that would certainly be rejected since even his reasonable compromise is being rejected.

And I could grab Trump's feet and push them toward a flame but I couldn't give him a magic wand, which is what you seem to want.

We're living in the real world here, @Axeslinger   You might think about joining us here.

[libertybele]

Well, I could urge Trump to offer something that would please you, but that would certainly be rejected since even his reasonable compromise is being rejected.

And I could grab Trump's feet and push them toward a flame but I couldn't give him a magic wand, which is what you seem to want.

We're living in the real world here, @Axeslinger   You might think about joining us here.

NO compromise on the sovereignty of this country - take a good hard look at Germany and France.  NO amnesty.  NO DACA.  The Secure Fence Act of 2006 was signed by BOTH parties .... we need the rest of it funded, period!!!!

[Emjay]

NO compromise on the sovereignty of this country - take a good hard look at Germany and France.  NO amnesty.  NO DACA.  The Secure Fence Act of 2006 was signed by BOTH parties .... we need the rest of it funded, period!!!!

Yes, that would be great but there is no realistic way to make that happen right now.  I wish there were.

I don't know how y'all expect this to come about ... all you do is say what you want, which is what most of us want, but nobody can explain how to make this happen.

Trump is trying.

[Axeslinger]

Well, I could urge Trump to offer something that would please you, but that would certainly be rejected since even his reasonable compromise is being rejected.

And I could grab Trump's feet and push them toward a flame but I couldn't give him a magic wand, which is what you seem to want.

We're living in the real world here, @Axeslinger   You might think about joining us here.

@Emjay you’re right, it’s always better to give the other side all your leverage and everything they want...and it’s always better to just accept what your “betters” tell you to take and not try to hold their feet to the fire.   That’s a brilliant strategy you’ve got there.

[Axeslinger]

Yes, that would be great but there is no realistic way to make that happen right now.  I wish there were.

I don't know how y'all expect this to come about ... all you do is say what you want, which is what most of us want, but nobody can explain how to make this happen.

Trump is trying.

How about, “ok pelosi, my number is now 10B for the wall and starting tomorrow, I’m gonna do X to remove funding from Y”

[Emjay]

@Emjay you’re right, it’s always better to give the other side all your leverage and everything they want...and it’s always better to just accept what your “betters” tell you to take and not try to hold their feet to the fire.   That’s a brilliant strategy you’ve got there.

What exactly do you propose that Trump do??

[DB]

What exactly do you propose that Trump do??

Enforcing the actual laws currently on the books would be a good start.