VP Pence tells Mark Levin that Trump will NOT cave: ‘The president is not budging’

[Emjay]

Unlike furloughed workers, they won't get back pay. The rigid stance by either side doesn't pay their bills. Neither does rhetoric.

Tell that to the gang of two, Ed.  Trump is standing for principle.  They are standing for political gain.

[edpc]

Trump is standing for principle.

BS. You don’t modify your principles. What constitutes a wall has changed multiple times, since 2015. He’s doing this, purely for political purposes. His base crumbles, without the follow through.

[Emjay]

BS. You don’t modify your principles. What constitutes a wall has changed multiple times, since 2015. He’s doing this, purely for political purposes. His base crumbles, without the follow through.

The type of wall can be debated and Trump is willing to go with steel or concrete.  But the idea of having an effective physical barrier has not changed.

And, of course, it is important politically.  That's why Pelosi and Schumer are so dead set against it.  They are the ones without principles.  They claim to be for border security and we all know they are not, but they're opposing a wall simply because it would be a political victory for Trump.

[Jazzhead]

There is no evidence that great numbers of people are suffering.  Commercial fishermen losing livelihood over a month-long break?  That is a reach.

Most people are totally unaffected by this shutdown and it is a small price to pay for the future of our country having secure borders.

A little less hysteria would be appreciated @Victoria33

The shut-down is starting to killing economic growth.   Trump is going to have to make an existential choice soon - cater to his base who demand a wall with no concession,  or imperil his signature issue with the rest of us - the terrific economy.   

He would be well advised to sign a bill funding the Department of Homeland Security without preconditions.   A big threat to the economy would be a breakdown of air travel due to absentee TSA agents.

Finally, keep in mind that $5 billion for a "wall" won't provide "secure borders".  A lot more is needed for that, including fundamental changes to our immigration and asylum policies.   All of that will need bipartisan agreement to pass.   The two sides are currently engaged in a pissing contest over symbolic issues,  with compromise deemed a capitulation.   What is needed is comprehensive immigration reform, coupled with REAL funding for border security.    That's only attainable once we get pass the headline-grabbing pissing contest.         

[Emjay]

The shut-down is starting to killing economic growth.   Trump is going to have to make an existential choice soon - cater to his base who demand a wall with no concession,  or imperil his signature issue with the rest of us - the terrific economy.   

He would be well advised to sign a bill funding the Department of Homeland Security without preconditions.   A big threat to the economy would be a breakdown of air travel due to absentee TSA agents.

Finally, keep in mind that $5 billion for a "wall" won't provide "secure borders".  A lot more is needed for that, including fundamental changes to our immigration and asylum policies.   All of that will need bipartisan agreement to pass.   The two sides are currently engaged in a pissing contest over symbolic issues,  with compromise deemed a capitulation.   What is needed is comprehensive immigration reform, coupled with REAL funding for border security.    That's only attainable once we get pass the headline-grabbing pissing contest.         

You don't know that.  With the willing and eager cooperation of the press, some of the problems of the shutdown are being wildly exaggerated while polls show most people hardly notice.

The economic gain you speak of was largely created by Trump.

5 billion is a start.  Nothing wrong with a start.

[Jazzhead]

You don't know that.  With the willing and eager cooperation of the press, some of the problems of the shutdown are being wildly exaggerated while polls show most people hardly notice.

The economic gain you speak of was largely created by Trump.

5 billion is a start.  Nothing wrong with a start.

You're in denial, @Emjay.   If you're an air traveler, you've already noticed.  If you're a federal contractor, you've already noticed.  If you're a small businessman, you've already noticed.   

Yes, the current economic gain can largely be credited to Trump and his policies.   I fail to see the wisdom of catering to Trump's nativist base at the cost of losing that economic growth and the ability to brag about it.   Even the President's own advisors are warning that the impact of the shutdown on the economy is worse than they anticipated.   

Yes,  $5 billion is a start - but at what ultimate cost?   It's a Band-Aid, it's symbolism, it's a sop to his base.   It's nothing more.   To obtain real border security and be fair to working Americans,  the two sides have to finally negotiate a good deal reforming immigration and committing funds to border security on a comprehensive basis.   How can that happen when the two sides won't even deign to sit down and talk to each other like human beings?   

Any "victory" that Trump wins will be of the pyrrhic variety.    He cannot be so afraid of his nativist, anti-immigrant base that he forgets that he is President of the nation.  Let him declare his emergency if he's willing to fight for it in court, and set an imperial precedent for when the Dems regain the Presidency.  But there are too many innocents being hurt - the shutdown needs to end soon.     

[Emjay]

You're in denial, @Emjay.   If you're an air traveler, you've already noticed.  If you're a federal contractor, you've already noticed.  If you're a small businessman, you've already noticed.   

Yes, the current economic gain can largely be credited to Trump and his policies.   I fail to see the wisdom of catering to Trump's nativist base at the cost of losing that economic growth and the ability to brag about it.   Even the President's own advisors are warning that the impact of the shutdown on the economy is worse than they anticipated.   

Yes,  $5 billion is a start - but at what ultimate cost?   It's a Band-Aid, it's symbolism, it's a sop to his base.   It's nothing more.   To obtain real border security and be fair to working Americans,  the two sides have to finally negotiate a good deal reforming immigration and committing funds to border security on a comprehensive basis.   How can that happen when the two sides won't even deign to sit down and talk to each other like human beings?   

Any "victory" that Trump wins will be of the pyrrhic variety.    He cannot be so afraid of his nativist, anti-immigrant base that he forgets that he is President of the nation.  Let him declare his emergency if he's willing to fight for it in court, and set an imperial precedent for when the Dems regain the Presidency.  But there are too many innocents being hurt - the shutdown needs to end soon.   

I'm not in denial ... I'm in Maui right now and I have read multiple polls saying that most people have not noticed or been affected.

If you want to attribute all inconveniences to the government shutdown, I can't stop you.

But I do agree that he should proclaim the national emergency and do it quickly.

[jafo2010]

It is Congress that is no longer functional.  The president is presenting real solutions to the problems in America, and the Democommies are resisting because they will not let the president accomplish a solution on an issue they have successfully dogged for decades!.  And that is BOTH parties dogging a solution.

You have to be a total moron to believe walls do not work.  They do.  And anyone that says otherwise has sh*t for brains, or is a political hacks like Schumer and Pelosi!

[Right_in_Virginia]

Any "victory" that Trump wins will be of the pyrrhic variety.    He cannot be so afraid of his nativist, anti-immigrant base   

Careful there, cowboy.  Your true open border colors are bleeding through. 

[libertybele]

The president is NOT budging.  The GOP who do not stand behind him should be shamed.

[Jazzhead]

Careful there, cowboy.  Your true open border colors are bleeding through.

I want secure borders AND sufficient legal immigration to permit the economy to grow.   That has been a mainstream GOP/conservative position since forever.   It's Trump's pandering to nefarious types who want to clamp down on legal immigration because those who want to come here aren't white enough that represents a shift to a position that used to be labelled know-nothingism and worse,  and which, until recently, never had a respectable home in the Republican Party.

I stand behind my earlier comment.   I'll give the President credit when it's due,  but he's far too beholden to his nativist, anti-immigrant base.   If he won't represent the nation, he should at least represent the whole Republican Party, which has twin traditions of respect for the rule of law (that is, in this context, the need to secure borders and address illegal immigration just as the President advocates) AND our history as a nation that has vastly benefitted from legal immigration from all four corners of the world.   That is, Reagan's shining city.   

@Right_in_Virginia

 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

So neither side will budge, as innocents suffer.   Just effing craptastic.   How did we get to this?

 

Are we talking now of babies being aborted?  Stay on topic.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I stand behind my earlier comment.   I'll give the President credit when it's due,  but he's far too beholden to his nativist, anti-immigrant base.

A lie.

He is against illegal immigrants, as is his base, as well as any other American citizen worth a damn.

[aligncare]

A lie.

He is against illegal immigrants, as is his base, as well as any other American citizen worth a damn.

Donald Trump and his many companies have one of the best records in the industry for hiring women and minorities.

Nativist, my *ss. He was married to a ‘foreigner’ before and is married to a foreigner now!

 Donald Trump doesn’t have a prejudiced bone in his body.

[Jazzhead]

A lie.

He is against illegal immigrants, as is his base, as well as any other American citizen worth a damn.

Yes,  but many members of his base reject Reagan's shining city,  and want to suspend or reduce legal immigration. 

[Emjay]

I want secure borders AND sufficient legal immigration to permit the economy to grow.   That has been a mainstream GOP/conservative position since forever.   It's Trump's pandering to nefarious types who want to clamp down on legal immigration because those who want to come here aren't white enough that represents a shift to a position that used to be labelled know-nothingism and worse,  and which, until recently, never had a respectable home in the Republican Party.

I stand behind my earlier comment.   I'll give the President credit when it's due,  but he's far too beholden to his nativist, anti-immigrant base.   If he won't represent the nation, he should at least represent the whole Republican Party, which has twin traditions of respect for the rule of law (that is, in this context, the need to secure borders and address illegal immigration just as the President advocates) AND our history as a nation that has vastly benefitted from legal immigration from all four corners of the world.   That is, Reagan's shining city.   

@Right_in_Virginia

@Jazzhead   Careful, that is the mantra of the most vicious Never Trumpers ... that they will give Trump the credit when it is due.  But, somehow, it is never due to you people.

Mystery just posted a poll that shows the legal Hispanics in the country are way in favor of stopping illegal immigration.  They don't want it either.

You are verging on losing credibility here.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead   Careful, that is the mantra of the most vicious Never Trumpers ... that they will give Trump the credit when it is due.  But, somehow, it is never due to you people.

Mystery just posted a poll that shows the legal Hispanics in the country are way in favor of stopping illegal immigration.  They don't want it either.

You are verging on losing credibility here.

In a recent TBR poll,  I gave the President an overall grade of "B".   How is that not giving the President credit where it is due?  Do you want me to provide you with a list of things he's done that I support?  It would be a long one. 

But make no mistake, I am an old-school Reagan/Goldwater/Kemp Republican.    I do not align with those of his base who oppose legal immigration,  obsess over identity politics,  turn a blind eye to the plight of migrants from Central America whose lives are plagued by drug and gang violence because of Americans' appetite for drugs,  or who insist that America turn its back on its traditional responsibilities in the world.  That I have such differences doesn't mean I cannot support the President - the GOP has always been a coalition.   But for me the big issue is whether the President's governing style is so improvisational and confrontational, and his personality so erratic and sensitive to criticism, that he cannot retain good people,  and cannot expand his base of supporters.   If Trump runs and loses in 2020,  the socialists will take over.  And THAT is the disaster we ALL must work as hard as we can to avoid.   

@Emjay

[Emjay]

In a recent TBR poll,  I gave the President an overall grade of "B".   How is that not giving the President credit where it is due?  Do you want me to provide you with a list of things he's done that I support?  It would be a long one. 

But make no mistake, I am an old-school Reagan/Goldwater/Kemp Republican.    I do not align with those of his base who oppose legal immigration,  obsess over identity politics,  turn a blind eye to the plight of migrants from Central America whose lives are plagued by drug and gang violence because of Americans' appetite for drugs,  or who insist that America turn its back on its traditional responsibilities in the world.  That I have such differences doesn't mean I cannot support the President - the GOP has always been a coalition.   But for me the big issue is whether the President's governing style is so improvisational and confrontational, and his personality so erratic and sensitive to criticism, that he cannot retain good people,  and cannot expand his base of supporters.   If Trump runs and loses in 2020,  the socialists will take over.  And THAT is the disaster we ALL must work as hard as we can to avoid.   

@Emjay

President Trump has a vastly different style than most presidents but that doesn't mean it is bad or alienates people because it doesn't.

The other side is a disaster beyond imagination and I would think you would try to support Trump instead of constantly whining about him

[Jazzhead]

President Trump has a vastly different style than most presidents but that doesn't mean it is bad or alienates people because it doesn't.

It may not alienate you, but it sure as hell alienates me and most people I know.    This isn't a matter of policy - it's how he conducts himself as President.   

The other side is a disaster beyond imagination and I would think you would try to support Trump instead of constantly whining about him

Oh, I've got a pretty good imagination.   One consequence of the surprise result in the last election is that the Dems have radicalized themselves.   The speed at which all their significant leaders have embraced both the bad weed of socialism and the very worst of identity politics is shocking. 

There should be no greater priority than winning the 2020 election.  And my position is clear - while I can support many of Trump's policies,  because of his personality and style he will drag down the GOP in 2020 and allow the social justice warriors to take charge.   

Trump must be persuaded to step down and not run for re-election.   He can probably win a primary challenge,  but if he's the nominee, the "disaster beyond imagination" will be staring us in the face.   The only viable way forward,  IMO, is for the President himself to declare victory in his outsider quest to remake the GOP coalition,  and retire to his family and businesses.   

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Oh, I've got a pretty good imagination.   One consequence of the surprise result in the last election is that the Dems have radicalized themselves.   The speed at which all their significant leaders have embraced both the bad weed of socialism and the very worst of identity politics is shocking. 

There should be no greater priority than winning the 2020 election.  And my position is clear - while I can support many of Trump's policies,  because of his personality and style he will drag down the GOP in 2020 and allow the social justice warriors to take charge.   

Trump must be persuaded to step down and not run for re-election.   He can probably win a primary challenge,  but if he's the nominee, the "disaster beyond imagination" will be staring us in the face.   The only viable way forward,  IMO, is for the President himself to declare victory in his outsider quest to remake the GOP coalition,  and retire to his family and businesses.   

That would be the winning play.  I haven't seen that kind of self recognition from Trump, and sadly, he has succeeded in pushing away his most honest advisors.  Trump nationalized the last elections on the issues of immigration and his own greatness.  Predictably he cheered the House loss as a victory.  Trump doesn't have a grasp on reality and none of his circle are willing to tell him no.   Because winners don't take no for an answer.  They just refuse to do that, because they are winners, and winners we don't listen to words like "no," or "don't," or "stop."  Those words are just not in his vocabulary.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

It may not alienate you, but it sure as hell alienates me and most people I know.    This isn't a matter of policy - it's how he conducts himself as President.   

Oh, I've got a pretty good imagination.   One consequence of the surprise result in the last election is that the Dems have radicalized themselves.   

Some points here:

1. I am not the least bit alienated as well as most people in this country.  A leader steps on toes in the process of winning a war.  We have tried the tired McCain/Dole way of doing things and it is a failed strategy.   I always thought Stormin' Norman Schwarzkopf would have been voted in as President with a huge majority.

2.  You must have a pretty good imagination if the failure of Hillary was a surprise.  It wasn't to most of us Americans who know better.  She was the least likable person to ever run for that office.

3.  I agree that the Dems have become radicalized when Pelosi is shouted down by her own constituents, and the Dems' primary strategy is revealed to support illegals instead of the American people they supposedly represent.  What is not to like with this on retention of our gains?

[DB]

If border security is that important, Mr. President (and it is),  then signal you'll sign a Wall-for-Dreamers deal.   

That will not work. The "Dreamers" will get their pass and the wall won't be built. Funding will be pulled shortly after the Dreamer deal is permanent. They've done this before. Reagan tried making such a deal and was bamboozled by the Democrats.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

[libertybele]

If border security is that important, Mr. President (and it is),  then signal you'll sign a Wall-for-Dreamers deal.   

Border security = American sovereignty and saving our country.  Dreamers deal = DEM voter security and expansion of its base.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I want secure borders AND sufficient legal immigration to permit the economy to grow.   That has been a mainstream GOP/conservative position since forever.   It's Trump's pandering to nefarious types who want to clamp down on legal immigration because those who want to come here aren't white enough

Right here, Sparky, you lose all credibility by quoting the liberal talking points.

I will say no more about  what I think of you, your worldview and your political games 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Right here, Sparky, you lose all credibility by quoting the liberal talking points.

I will say no more about  what I think of you, your worldview and your political games 

You are so right.

The left, like him, shouts for more immigration to get more workers yet by supporting abortion emphasizes that they should not come from American-born citizens.

Pro-life = less immigration needed = stronger America.