Remedial Education Too Common and Costly, Report Says

[Cyber Liberty]

It's legitimate enough for me. I'm not going to die on that hill.

Be sure and give us some warning so we can stay out of your Congressional District.  I find that if I surround myself with "giver-uppers" I become ticked off, and I want some peace in my life right now.  I need friends who will stay in the foxhole, not run off like a coward.

[Dexter]

Be sure and give us some warning so we can stay out of your Congressional District.  I find that if I surround myself with "giver-uppers" I become ticked off, and I want some peace in my life right now.  I need friends who will stay in the foxhole, not run off like a coward.

It's not cowardice to assess a situation and determine you can't win. Sacrificing yourself to gain nothing is the wrong answer.

[Cyber Liberty]

It's not cowardice to assess a situation and determine you can't win. Sacrificing yourself to gain nothing is the wrong answer.

Whatever you say.  My attitude is more like the statement in the upper-right corner of my signature block.  Just don't expect me to agree with you about very much.

[Sanguine]

It's not cowardice to assess a situation and determine you can't win. Sacrificing yourself to gain nothing is the wrong answer.

Not winning and gaining nothing are not the same thing.

[truth_seeker]

Under what authority does the federal government have to do that?

s of previous generations.


Student have performed wrse, and worse, over the deecades when the FedGov imposed "standards, for money"


College grades now, equal HS grads of previous generations and decades.



Common sense argues, if resultsareworse now, then look at how we did it, when resultswere better.
chmark, for research.



It is stated that 18-19 yr. old college fresman behave like 13-15yr. olds, from not long ago.


Education peak performance in America was in the 1960s, so that would be a great bench mark, to look at for "best practices."


 

[Sanguine]

s of previous generations.


Student have performed wrse, and worse, over the deecades when the FedGov imposed "standards, for money"


College grades now, equal HS grads of previous generations and decades.



Common sense argues, if resultsareworse now, then look at how we did it, when resultswere better.
chmark, for research.



It is stated that 18-19 yr. old college fresman behave like 13-15yr. olds, from not long ago.


Education peak performance in America was in the 1960s, so that would be a great bench mark, to look at for "best practices."

Are you on your phone? 

[Cyber Liberty]

s of previous generations.


Student have performed wrse, and worse, over the deecades when the FedGov imposed "standards, for money"


College grades now, equal HS grads of previous generations and decades.



Common sense argues, if resultsareworse now, then look at how we did it, when resultswere better.
chmark, for research.



It is stated that 18-19 yr. old college fresman behave like 13-15yr. olds, from not long ago.


Education peak performance in America was in the 1960s, so that would be a great bench mark, to look at for "best practices."

I agree very much with the part I highlighted.  I will not accept that it is "impossible" because the Feds are already involved.  It will be difficult because the centralized bureaucrats will fight common sense every step of the way, if it means diminishing their power and budgets.

[Dexter]

I agree very much with the part I highlighted.  I will not accept that it is "impossible" because the Feds are already involved.  It will be difficult because the centralized bureaucrats will fight common sense every step of the way, if it means diminishing their power and budgets.

There's no way you will completely remove federal involvement in education, ever. You might be able to mitigate a lot compared to how it is now, but it will never be gone entirely. There is progress that can be made.

[Sanguine]

There's no way you will completely remove federal involvement in education, ever. You might be able to mitigate a lot compared to how it is now, but it will never be gone entirely. There is progress that can be made.

You live in a very gloomy and defeatist world. 

[Dexter]

You live in a very gloomy and defeatist world.

The real world has real limitations. We can improve some things though.

[Sanguine]

The real world has real limitations. We can improve some things though.

Now, something we can agree on.  We need to improve education by restoring Constitutional boundaries and getting the federal government out of education.

[Dexter]

Now, something we can agree on.  We need to improve education by restoring Constitutional boundaries and getting the federal government out of education.

The feds are an absolute limitation. We can't go back in time.

[Sanguine]

The feds are an absolute limitation. We can't go back in time.

Now, there you go again, Dex.  Stand up straight, clean your room and be of good cheer.  We adults will try to fix things for you. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Now, there you go again, Dex.  Stand up straight, clean your room and be of good cheer.  We adults will try to fix things for you.

[truth_seeker]

The Constitution, does not even mention education.

And before the FedGov got involved, we had better education outcomes.

Few deny that a HS diploma from the 1930s-1960s equals or is even better, than a 4 yr. college degree, today.

Today a graduate degree is probably little ahead of a bachelors, from years ago.

[truth_seeker]

The feds are an absolute limitation. We can't go back in time.

Are you a climate scientist, or an educator, or both?


Inquiring minds, want to know about your CV?

IOW about your Qualifications, for the various subjects upon which you opine with such confidence?

As is true in employment, you can substitute work experience, for formal education.

As an aside, the fields of philosophy, math, sciences group with Logic; critical thinking.

They tend to NOT be based on "feelings," etc.
 

[the_doc]

@Cyber Liberty
@Dexter
@Sanguine

@Sanguine 

This relates to what I was referring to on another thread about "School-to-work."  If a student wants to break the predetermination that was made in Middle School that he/she isn't "college material," that student has to enter what this author refers to as a "black hole."

The most serious problems aren't overcrowding in poor high school classrooms with underpaid teachers.  The two problems I have seen are as follows:

1)  Some kids aren't college material and never will be--and yet they have been told that they need to go to college to have good life.  If they want a six-figure income eventually, they'd better be encouraged to look elsewhere.  (Sadly, a lot of young folks could make that kind of money with no prior training in the oil industry's presently available openings, but they can't pass a drug screen.)

2)  Some kids, on the other hand, could become college students if they got better primary and secondary instruction in the classrooms we already have under the teachers we already have.  (This second problem, related to but different from the first one, is a pervasive problem in America's culture, filtering into our schools from the top via progressive administrators and from the bottom via social and family decay.  [For example, a California teacher once told me that the Constitution was taken completely out of California's schools years ago.  Now California's schools are reportedly the worst in the nation.])

One of the saddest things about the black hole mess is that a lot of colleges are trying to suck kids out of the black holes of inadequate remedial education (and to make them paying customers in college) by seriously dumbing down the college curriculum--leaving the kids one degree older and deeper in debt.

[Cyber Liberty]

@the_doc  Good post!  Thanks for the ping to it!

[Dexter]

Are you a climate scientist, or an educator, or both?


Inquiring minds, want to know about your CV?

IOW about your Qualifications, for the various subjects upon which you opine with such confidence?

As is true in employment, you can substitute work experience, for formal education.

As an aside, the fields of philosophy, math, sciences group with Logic; critical thinking.

They tend to NOT be based on "feelings," etc.

Please feel free to put my overconfidence in its place with detailed explanations of anything I am blatantly wrong about. I offer no guarantees that I will agree with what you say, but I'll do my best.

[Dexter]

The most serious problems aren't overcrowding in poor high school classrooms with underpaid teachers.

"Most serious..."

So do we at least agree that those are factors that mitigate the quality of education?

[truth_seeker]

@Cyber Liberty
@Dexter
@Sanguine

completely out of California's schools years ago.  Now California's schools are reportedly the worst in the nation.])

California schools were Number One in the mid 1960s. Today they come in below Number 45.

I had a debate once with a HS credentialed teacher. She had a M.Ed. degree, for masters in education.

She was expounding on the benefits of socialism, etc.(like Dexter does).

I asked her precisely the amount of school training in Economics, she had taken in undergrad and grad school?

She at least answered honestly, "None."

Traits they share include "confidence," perhaps from gold stars for merely participating, and
 Arrogance, of the type lacking in self-awareness, of even seeing how others notice their ignorance.


Eith a little bit of "social sciences" knowledge, they think they know it all.

[the_doc]

Please feel free to put my overconfidence in its place with detailed explanations of anything I am blatantly wrong about. I offer no guarantees that I will agree with what you say, but I'll do my best.

I don't know your position on Anthropogenic Global Warming, so I certainly don't assume that you're a complete idiot, friend.

[Dexter]

I dreamed of being an educator. My old man is one. It's too bleep up and it doesn't pay enough, though. I'm going to make sure my descendants don't have to worry about how they will afford an education or where they can afford to live. I can't achieve that as an educator.

[the_doc]

@Cyber Liberty
@Dexter
@Sanguine

completely out of California's schools years ago.  Now California's schools are reportedly the worst in the nation.])

California schools were Number One in the mid 1960s. Today they come in below Number 45.

I had a debate once with a HS credentialed teacher. She had a M.Ed. degree, for masters in education.

She was expounding on the benefits of socialism, etc.(like Dexter does).

I asked her precisely the amount of school training in Economics, she had taken in undergrad and grad school?

She at least answered honestly, "None."

Traits they share include "confidence," perhaps from gold stars for merely participating, and
 Arrogance, of the type lacking in self-awareness, of even seeing how others notice their ignorance.


Eith a little bit of "social sciences" knowledge, they think they know it all.

Ah, thanks for pointing out the quasi-exception to my generalization that we ought to be able to work with existing classrooms and existing teachers.    Some of our HS teachers ought to be forced out of their jobs.  (Better to have overcrowded classes than to have poison being spewed at impressionable kids.  Better school administrators would find a way to fire flagrant Socialists in spite of teachers' unions.)

[Cyber Liberty]

Please feel free to put my overconfidence in its place with detailed explanations of anything I am blatantly wrong about. I offer no guarantees that I will agree with what you say, but I'll do my best.

I hope you know we're just funnin' ya....