Author Topic: Progressives unseated all 59 Republican judges up for re-election in Houston in the midterms  (Read 14871 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Also I don't believe morality can't exist without Christianity. There are plenty of good people that don't consider themselves religious.

So, what is that kind of morality based on?

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
So, what is that kind of morality based on?

Live and let live. I do not believe humanity will descend into suffering and chaos without Christianity. People aren't going to just stop being decent. A secular humanity would do just fine.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Live and let live. I do not believe humanity will descend into suffering and chaos without Christianity. People aren't going to just stop being decent. A secular humanity would do just fine.

Too glib and you didn't answer the question.  The question is "what is it based on"?  You don't arrive at a philosophy without basing it on something.

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
I get it, some people do not believe in the Constitution, got it. Perhaps one can do us the favor of not throwing stones at those who do.

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Too glib and you didn't answer the question.  The question is "what is it based on"?  You don't arrive at a philosophy without basing it on something.

People don't need a big list of dos and don'ts to be decent people. They just need to be raised to value goodness and kindness. I don't really want to get too much further into this specifically. I know a lot of people here feel that Christianity is the glue that holds together decency and morality in the world. I don't believe that. I believe one day humanity will be completely secular and that the differences between right and wrong will still be easily identifiable.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 05:30:05 pm by Dexter »
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
I think when people are taught morality as children they will often carry that into their adult lives and teach their own children the same thing. I think most good people are good because they don't want to be bad. I think that's all the motivation most of them need. People don't need religion to know that killing and stealing are wrong. Most people don't want to be evil.

But their is a belief of some sort, a "faith", if you will, even in your statement.
"I think most good people are good because they don't want to be bad. I think that's all the motivation most of them need"
Because there is a faith, that by doing so will result in a more meaningful life, but there is no guarantee.
Just what is it that these parents pass on to their children, and where did it come from, this innate ability to know, to tell people not to be evil?
Yes, it happens without religion, but it does not happen without a sense of morality.
So we have now come full circle, that if it is someones position to find abortion immoral, does that really and truly cost the GOP any more votes than it would get otherwise?
You say yes, and I say no.
 :cool:


Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Neener, neener, don't believe in homosexuality, dont practice it.  Really elevating the debate.

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
I get it, some people do not believe in the Constitution, got it. Perhaps one can do us the favor of not throwing stones at those who do.

@TomSea

I think they believe in only the parts they like, that suits their purposes.

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
People don't need a big list of dos and don'ts to be decent people. They just need to be raised to value goodness and kindness. I don't really want to get too much further into this specifically. I know a lot of people here feel that Christianity is the glue that holds together decency and morality in the world. I don't believe that. I believe one day humanity will be completely secular and that the differences between right and wrong will still be easily identifiable.

I disagree.
In a 100% secular world, the differences between right and wrong will change like the weather, as the wind blows.

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
where did it come from, this innate ability to know, to tell people not to be evil?

I think at its core humanity is good.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Before you start telling me about being backwards, I will remind you that you have no idea of my background, or how i feel about any of these issues.
The only thing you can say with certainty, is that I am opposed on constitutional grounds, including the 1st amendment, which allow people to practice their religious beliefs, even those that don't correspond with the Supreme court's ruling on these issues, or "pragmatism", as described by you and Dexter.

Religious beliefs aren't "backwards".   I would never suggest such a thing.   I am a person of faith the same as you.   The issue raised by Dexter, and with which I agree, is that the Republican party does itself no favors when it accedes to demands from social conservatives that government enforce their notions of Biblical morality.   We are a secular Republic.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
 Obama's progressivism would lose/has lost the nation already, we got a reprieve, the asserted way of discarding some values loses this country quicker than you can say Jackie Robinson

The Dems need an underclass, their ways are unpopular, election fraud, illegal immigration, even death threats over social-conservative Supreme Court nominee, Brett Kavanaugh and so on,  so the way to compete is to become like them? No siree.

Adams and the others are correct, our country is founded on Judeo-Christian values.

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
You don't like the way our country is?   9999hair out0000

Move to Russia.

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Religious beliefs aren't "backwards".   I would never suggest such a thing.   I am a person of faith the same as you.   The issue raised by Dexter, and with which I agree, is that the Republican party does itself no favors when it accedes to demands from social conservatives that government enforce their notions of Biblical morality.   We are a secular Republic.

Fair enough.
I didn't need to say that.
I apologize for that.

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Republicans gained nothing but the Whitehouse, 2 SCOTUS justices, etc. etc.

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Religious beliefs aren't "backwards".   I would never suggest such a thing.   I am a person of faith the same as you.   The issue raised by Dexter, and with which I agree, is that the Republican party does itself no favors when it accedes to demands from social conservatives that government enforce their notions of Biblical morality.   We are a secular Republic.

Thanks for your support Jazzhead. I didn't mean to offend any Christians or suggest that their views are unimportant. I just want economic conservatism to survive this mess we are in.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Republicans gained nothing but the Whitehouse, 2 SCOTUS justices, etc. etc.

Donald Trump won with less votes than Romney lost with. Hillary was unpopular even on the left. Also Donald Trump is supportive of gay marriage.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,825
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Religious beliefs aren't "backwards".   I would never suggest such a thing.   I am a person of faith the same as you.   The issue raised by Dexter, and with which I agree, is that the Republican party does itself no favors when it accedes to demands from social conservatives that government enforce their notions of Biblical morality.   We are a secular Republic.

Uh, No.

   
Quote
When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
   We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


In the document which laid out the very justification for the revolt which led to the formation of this country, God is mentioned. Secular Republic? Nope. The very philosophy which formed the foundations of this country was indeed rooted in Christian thought.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Uh, No. 

Uh, Yes.

   

Quote
In the document which laid out the very justification for the revolt which led to the formation of this country, God is mentioned. Secular Republic? Nope. The very philosophy which formed the foundations of this country was indeed rooted in Christian thought.

Interestingly,  the Declaration - authored by Thomas Jefferson, lest you forget - doesn't mention the Christian God.   It refers to "Nature's God".   Our natural rights derive from our status as human beings - whether prince or pauper. 

Who is Nature's God?

Quote
"Nature's God" was clearly the God of deism in all important ways. That Jefferson included God in the "Declaration of Independence" is very significant because it helped lay the foundation for a civil religion in America. Paul Johnson addressed the civil religion begun by the founders in his article, "The Almost-Chosen People,"[20] saying that the United States was unique because all religious beliefs were respected. People were more concerned with "moral conduct rather than dogma." So Jefferson helped create a society in which different religions could coexist peacefully because of the emphasis on morality over specific belief. 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 07:14:42 pm by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,825
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Donald Trump won with less votes than Romney lost with. Hillary was unpopular even on the left. Also Donald Trump is supportive of gay marriage.
So was Romney, who not only supported gay 'marriage', but also signed off as Mass. Governor on the state-run health care program that served as a model for Obamacare. No matter how far Left you go, it doesn't bring in winning votes from the GOP, what it does is give the voters on the right little reason to not just stay home and watch TV. They don't have anyone to support, just people to vote against, and sometimes the difference just isn't clear enough to motivate them.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,825
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Uh, Yes.

   

Interestingly,  the Declaration doesn't mention the Christian God.   It refers to "Nature's God".   Our natural rights derive from our status as human beings - whether prince or pauper.
Our Creator? Who did you have in mind for that role?
One of the most owned books was the Bible, the philosophy of the day had not yet been derailed by the likes of Marx.

Every one of the founders was raised in a Christian Context. Just who do you propose they meant?

From :http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

Quote
These are the people who did one or more of the following:

- signed the Declaration of Independence
- signed the Articles of Confederation
- attended the Constitutional Convention of 1787
- signed the Constitution of the United States of America
- served as Senators in the First Federal Congress (1789-1791)
- served as U.S. Representatives in the First Federal Congress

The religious affiliations of these individuals are summarized below. Obviously this is a very restrictive set of names, and does not include everyone who could be considered an "American Founding Father." But most of the major figures that people generally think of in this context are included using these criteria, including George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, John Hancock, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and more.

Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers   # of
Founding
Fathers   % of
Founding
Fathers
Episcopalian/Anglican      88      54.7%
Presbyterian      30      18.6%
Congregationalist      27      16.8%
Quaker      7      4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed      6      3.7%
Lutheran      5      3.1%
Catholic      3      1.9%
Huguenot      3      1.9%
Unitarian      3      1.9%
Methodist      2      1.2%
Calvinist      1      0.6%
TOTAL      204      
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
the difference just isn't clear enough to motivate them.

It's frustrating that more people don't understand that there are still extremely clear and significant differences between the left and right when you take social issues out of the equation. Secular conservatism is a thing. We're not going to sprint down the path to socialism if conservatives drop the social issues and focus on economic ones instead. I think that will actually help us avoid socialism by refocusing on the merits of capitalism and conservative immigration standards. It's over if the left keeps gaining momentum like they have been.

I'm starting to think that these social issues are more important to a lot of people than actual economic conservatism.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Thanks for your support Jazzhead. I didn't mean to offend any Christians or suggest that their views are unimportant. I just want economic conservatism to survive this mess we are in.

@Dexter
@Jazzhead

I do not disagree that the 2 most important issues facing us at this time are economics and illegal immigration, which do go hand-in-hand.

For the record, I'd be as concerned if it were suggested the the Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Atheist, Agnostic, Taoist, Hindu, etc right-wing  be told that their beliefs and opinions be left out of the conversation because it may turn off those that might otherwise vote a certain way without them.
Frankly, I don't believe this to be the case, anyway.
I think the conservative movement was awakened by the economic reality of 2008 onward, and that those social issues have pretty much been left off the table since then.
My second argument is that the left can trot out socialist like Bernie Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez, and not have it turn off their base, most of whom (I would hope) are not that far left, so why should social conservatives turn off economic conservatives from voting?
We can agree to disagree on this, that's fine.

I do believe that SCOTUS has reached decisions on social issues that should not have been brought before it to begin with, due to the 10th amendment.
As it turns out, 2 big ones are issues with social conservatives.

The only case that I would offer that this was not in error was in Brown vs. board of Education.
It could be argued that this case should not have gone to SCOTUS, but my opinion is that it needed to, to correct another issue decision that should have never been made in Plessy vs, Ferguson.

I apologize, that I do come off as snarky at times, in my weak attempt at humor (my screen name is partly after Groucho Marx, after all).
It sounds a lot funnier in person......
But, like most all of us here, I will passionately defend my case and my beliefs.
No harm intended to anyone.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Our Creator? Who did you have in mind for that role?
One of the most owned books was the Bible, the philosophy of the day had not yet been derailed by the likes of Marx.

Every one of the founders was raised in a Christian Context. Just who do you propose they meant?

From :http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

It is irrelevant that most of the Founders were religious.  They deliberately established a secular, Constitutional, Republic.   The very person who wrote the words you cite in the Declaration also wrote of a "wall of separation" between church and state.   

Go on and sally forth with your Christian crusade.  Just don't enlist the government.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,904
  • Gender: Male
  • I'll make Mincemeat out of 'em"
Too glib and you didn't answer the question.  The question is "what is it based on"?  You don't arrive at a philosophy without basing it on something.

There isn't a single answer to your question.  Different people may have any number of sources for their morality.  It could be their own life experiences/observations, books or other things they've read, lessons taught to them by other people, etc..