Dead in cars and homes: Northern California fire toll at 29

[Right_in_Virginia]

Dead in cars and homes: Northern California fire toll at 29
WRAL.com, Nov 12, 2018, By GILLIAN FLACCUS and DON THOMPSON, Associated Press

The dead were found in burned-out cars, in the smoldering ruins of their homes, or next to their vehicles, apparently overcome by smoke and flames before they could jump in behind the wheel and escape. In some cases, there were only charred fragments of bone, so small that coroner's investigators used a wire basket to sift and sort them.

At least 29 people were confirmed dead in the wildfire that turned the Northern California town of Paradise and outlying areas into hell on earth, equaling the deadliest blaze in state history, and the search for bodies continued Monday.

Nearly 230 people were unaccounted for by the sheriff's reckoning, four days after the fire swept over the town of 27,000 and practically wiped it off the map with flames so fierce that authorities brought in a mobile DNA lab and forensic anthropologists to help identify the dead.

Meanwhile, a landowner near where the blaze began, Betsy Ann Cowley, said she got an email from Pacific Gas & Electric Co. the day before the fire last week telling her that crews needed to come onto her property because the utility's power lines were causing sparks. PG&E had no comment on the email, and state officials said the cause of the inferno was under investigation.

More: https://www.wral.com/devastation-as-deadly-california-blaze-tallies-grim-stats/17988185/

[Right_in_Virginia]

The videos included at the link are horrifying.  Just horrifying. 

[Frank Cannon]

The Libs wanted to have shitty land management procedures. Mother Nature had other plans. 

[Sanguine]

They are indeed.

[DB]

The videos included at the link are horrifying.  Just horrifying.

PG&E is going to end up in the position that every time the wind blows and it is dry and hot they'll have to turn off the power to the entire area or be liable for any fires that start.

Earlier this year we got notices from PG&E saying that was what they're planning on doing. Moonbeam attempted to limit their liability so they wouldn't turn the power off when these conditions arise and the legislature said hell no.

With this fire it will be only more so.

So Californians are going to get to find out what it is like to go full third world with the power going off who knows when.

[Sanguine]

PG&E is going to end up in the position that every time the wind blows and it is dry and hot they'll have to turn off the power to the entire area or be liable for any fires that start.

Earlier this year we got notices from PG&E saying that was what they're planning on doing. Moonbeam attempted to limit their liability so they wouldn't turn the power off when these conditions arise and the legislature said hell no.

With this fire it will be only more so.

So Californians are going to get to find out what it is like to go full third world with the power going off who knows when.

You're not close to that area, are you @DB?

[DB]

You're not close to that area, are you @DB?

I moved to AZ earlier this year but still have a house in central California in the hills that is ripe for a fire. It is in terrain similar to the town of Paradise only with more oak trees. PG&E provides power there. Last year there was big fire about 15 mile north of us around Lake Nacimiento that burned a lot of houses. Ventura/Thousand Oaks is about 115 miles southeast.

I can't sell the house in California yet because it has foundation issues and is in litigation due to that.

[Sanguine]

I moved to AZ earlier this year but still have a house in central California in the hills that is ripe for a fire. It is in terrain similar to the town of Paradise only with more oak trees. PG&E provides power there. Last year there was big fire about 15 mile north of us around Lake Nacimiento that burned a lot of houses. Ventura/Thousand Oaks is about 115 miles southeast.

I can't sell the house in California yet because it has foundation issues and is in litigation due to that.

Sounds miserable all around!  Hoping it comes through this well. 

[mrclose]

Guy's video of friends remains who died in their automobiles.
(He barely escaped himself)

WARNING! Skeletal Remains.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FB-HTIzyZWhtUV38Dkn2Db0HG8teRKtf/view?usp=sharing

[Silver Pines]

God Almighty.

How do these fires get so huge and out of hand before they can be contained?

[DB]

God Almighty.

How do these fires get so huge and out of hand before they can be contained?

High winds. They say it was moving 80 football fields a minute. With 50+ mph winds the fire can spot jump a mile ahead very quickly. The 101 freeway it jumped over in three places is 8 lanes wide plus shoulders and median (more than 150' wide of concrete/pavement). Fire breaks under these conditions provide little resistance. Under these conditions there is literally nothing a firefighter can do to stop the downwind progress. You can only try to clear the people out before it gets there.

Paradise California downtown burnt to the ground. Not because of too many trees or poor forest management but because the wind blew the flames from one building to the next in rapid succession like a torch. The wind blows embers into any vent or opening in a building or under a deck or raised foundation igniting it from inside even with lots of space between buildings.

[Gefn]

AP wires just broke..l
It’s now 42 dead. It’s now the deadliest wildfire in California state history.

(Over 200 plus missing)

[Sanguine]

Guy's video of friends remains who died in their automobiles.
(He barely escaped himself)

WARNING! Skeletal Remains.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FB-HTIzyZWhtUV38Dkn2Db0HG8teRKtf/view?usp=sharing

Good grief, that's awful. 

[Silver Pines]

High winds. They say it was moving 80 football fields a minute. With 50+ mph winds the fire can spot jump a mile ahead very quickly. The 101 freeway it jumped over in three places is 8 lanes wide plus shoulders and median (more than 150' wide of concrete/pavement). Fire breaks under these conditions provide little resistance. Under these conditions there is literally nothing a firefighter can do to stop the downwind progress. You can only try to clear the people out before it gets there.

Paradise California downtown burnt to the ground. Not because of too many trees or poor forest management but because the wind blew the flames from one building to the next in rapid succession like a torch. The wind blows embers into any vent or opening in a building or under a deck or raised foundation igniting it from inside even with lots of space between buildings.

@DB

I can't get my mind around this.  It's frightening beyond description.

[austingirl]

Too awful to contemplate.

[NavyCanDo]

What's awful to me is hearing and seeing politicians -- Trump and Governor Moonbeam included -- turning this tragedy into a political football.  I don't really care who or what is at fault here.  People died.  Others have lost everything.  They are the ones who should be the primary focus now.  How about these blowhards stop yammering and pointing fingers and deal with the situation at hand.  First, put forth every resource to get this fire under control and eventually out.  Recover the bodies so their loved ones can bury them.  Provide necessities to those who have nothing but the clothes on their back.  We have a crisis here and all these pontificators want to do is campaign.   If you can't help, shut the hell up and stay away from the cameras.

 

It's like Trump can't help himself...but the Democrats are also guilty of playing politics in the midst of disaster. They ALL need to shut up.

[Right_in_Virginia]

What's awful to me is hearing and seeing politicians -- Trump and Governor Moonbeam included -- turning this tragedy into a political football.  I don't really care who or what is at fault here.  People died.  Others have lost everything.  They are the ones who should be the primary focus now.  How about these blowhards stop yammering and pointing fingers and deal with the situation at hand.  First, put forth every resource to get this fire under control and eventually out.  Recover the bodies so their loved ones can bury them.  Provide necessities to those who have nothing but the clothes on their back.  We have a crisis here and all these pontificators want to do is campaign.   If you can't help, shut the hell up and stay away from the cameras.

I guess you missed this @Applewood

President Donald Trump approved Gov. Jerry Brown’s request for a major disaster declaration in California Monday evening as the state continues battling deadly wildfires — allowing more federal funding be funneled to the state.

Some of the resources now available to Californians affected by the wildfires include housing assistance, crisis counseling, unemployment assistance and legal services, according to a statement from Brown’s office announcing the disaster declaration.

https://ktla.com/2018/11/12/president-trump-approves-major-disaster-declaration-for-california-sending-more-federal-funds-amid-deadly-wildfires/

[Right_in_Virginia]

Paradise California downtown burnt to the ground. Not because of too many trees or poor forest management but because the wind blew the flames from one building to the next in rapid succession like a torch. The wind blows embers into any vent or opening in a building or under a deck or raised foundation igniting it from inside even with lots of space between buildings.

The winds picked up a fire started by poor forest management @DB

[sneakypete]

Why does this tragedy keep happening year after year,and no changes are ever made?

1: CRACK DOWN on illegal aliens who camp out in the hills and have cook fires! Catch,and do NOT release. Toss their asses back across the border,with the promise if they are ever caught again it is going to be 2 years of hard labor followed by deportation again,and 4 years the next time they are caught.

2: Change building regulations to require steel roofs and stucco,block,or brick walls. NO MORE SIDING FROM FLAMMABLE MATERIAL.

3: Fences from non-flammable material only.

4: Any paint used on fences,walls,or roofs MUST be non-flammable.

5: No more grass lawns. Gravel ,concrete,shells,or similar materials only. This will also help to avoid their periodic droughts.

6: Have the Ca highway dept start cutting back on trees and brush along roads/escape routes,and once again,add a barrier of rock,crushed shells,etc,etc,etc between where the road ends and the brush begins. Maybe a minimum of 50 feet on each side of the road in order to keep passing cars from catching fire from spontaneous combustion.

If realtors or homeowners start to whine about this raising the cost of construction,tell them to build smaller houses. WTF does a family of 4 need a 4,000 sq ft house for anyhow? If you want one and can afford one,good for you. If you want one and can't afford one,STFU about it until you can afford it. Nobody wants to hear your whining.

I am sure some of you may have other suggestions that would help.

[sneakypete]

@DB

I can't get my mind around this.  It's frightening beyond description.

@CatherineofAragon

Fire creates it's own wind from the combustion,and when you add narrow canyons to the mixture,you get high winds.

And yes,it is terrifying.

[sneakypete]

What's awful to me is hearing and seeing politicians -- Trump and Governor Moonbeam included -- turning this tragedy into a political football.  I don't really care who or what is at fault here.

 

@Applewood

I do. How can you eliminate the problem if you refuse to identify it and take the appropriate actions? The fire didn't start itself. It didn't begin because of a lightening strike during a drought,it started because idiots,most likely illegal aliens,were building fires where and when they shouldn't have been building fires,and were careless about it.

People died.

And MORE people are going to die unless the problems and the causes of the problems are identified and eliminated.


 

Others have lost everything.  They are the ones who should be the primary focus now.  How about these blowhards stop yammering and pointing fingers and deal with the situation at hand.  First, put forth every resource to get this fire under control and eventually out.

Nice theory,but if it were that easy the fire would have never gotten so large. They CAN'T put the fire out now. It is just too damn big and too damn intense. The BEST they can do is try to slow it down and maybe channel it in certain directions while evacuating people and hoping for rain. LOTS of rain.

Otherwise,they just have to hope it burns itself out .

Recover the bodies so their loved ones can bury them.  Provide necessities to those who have nothing but the clothes on their back.  We have a crisis here and all these pontificators want to do is campaign.   If you can't help, shut the hell up and stay away from the cameras.

Uhhhhh,how do you think politicians get the public attention they need to get others to donate time and money to do the things you want done. To solve ANY problem,first you have to identify it,and then you have to draw attention to it to encourage others to help and be willing to donate and allow tax monies to go to help the needy. We are SUPPOSED to be a government ran by the people,so it is only right and proper that the creatures we call "politicians" MUST be required to get the people on their sides before they start spending the people's money.

Yeah,we could all do without some of the posing and grandstanding that always goes on as they compete to see who can jump in front of the most cameras,but that's just how the system works,and as long as it works and the people get what they need,it seems like a small price to pay.

[Elderberry]

Why California's Best Strategy Against Wildfire Is Hardly Ever Used

https://www.kqed.org/science/1927354/controlled-burns-can-help-solve-californias-fire-problem-so-why-arent-there-more-of-them

With climate change, wildfires threaten disaster and chaos in more California communities, more often. But experts say it’s possible to avoid catastrophic harm to human and forest health by setting planned burns before human error, lightning or arson choose when fires start.

“Putting prescribed fire back out on the landscape at a pace and scale to get real work done and to actually make a difference is a high priority,” says Cal Fire chief Ken Pimlott. “It really is, and it's going to take a lot of effort.”

'Unprecedented Catastrophe'

In a February report, the watchdog Little Hoover Commission concluded that the way California landowners have collectively managed forests is an “unprecedented catastrophe.” In May, Gov. Jerry Brown issued an executive order to improve forest management, and with it, a dramatic change.

Now Pimlott says that Cal Fire intends to triple the amount of prescribed fire on lands the state controls.

“We can prevent these large catastrophic fires or at least reduce the intensity when fires do occur,” he says. “So a little bit of smoke now and a little bit of inconvenience now is well worth offsetting these large damaging fires.”

That’s a small step toward addressing a major deficit. According to the commission's report, an area the size of Maryland—including state, private and federal land—needs maintenance or planned fire to become healthier.

[thackney]

Why California's Best Strategy Against Wildfire Is Hardly Ever Used

“Putting prescribed fire back out on the landscape at a pace and scale to get real work done and to actually make a difference is a high priority,” says Cal Fire chief Ken Pimlott. “It really is, and it's going to take a lot of effort.”

Commonly done in Texas to help Wildlife as well as humans.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/land/wildland_fire_management/

[sneakypete]

Commonly done in Texas to help Wildlife as well as humans.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/land/wildland_fire_management/

@thackney

Probably a lot easier and cheaper to do in Texas than the mountains and valleys of California.

[Sanguine]

@thackney

Probably a lot easier and cheaper to do in Texas than the mountains and valleys of California.

Why would that be?