Author Topic: ‘Never Trumpers’ unite to back Trump’s battle for Kavanaugh  (Read 28475 times)

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Online Hoodat

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Romney, McMuffin, Sasse, Castle had nothing to do with it.

Sasse voted 'Aye'.
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Online Hoodat

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And who in the hell cares whether the deficit is $19 Trillion or $21 Trillion.

QED
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online DCPatriot

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I long for the day when posters will be able to criticize wrong-headed liberal positions coming from Trump without being labeled "NTers".

Excuse me?

You're the one who ran in here FIRST with a need to respond when we were discussing NeverTrumpers.

What's up with that??   :laugh:
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Offline edpc

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And who in the hell cares whether the deficit is $19 Trillion or $21 Trillion.   WTF is going to pay that off?


Funny you should ask.....


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/07/us/politics/donald-trumps-idea-to-cut-national-debt-get-creditors-to-accept-less.html
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Online Hoodat

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If NeverTrumpers unite to back Trump, then by definition they are not NeverTrumpers.  But hey, we have been putting up with this passive BS for a couple of years now.  The NT label gets tossed out there, and then the cowardly response about how you really weren't talking to any of the people here who have been labeled NT numerous times in the past.

The very gist of the op-ed is that because of the Kavanaugh fight, Conservatives are united in supporting Trump.  Yet here you are still here sewing division with incessant bitching about NTers (without naming any names, of course) instead of rejoicing at the satisfaction of unity.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

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@CatherineofAragon
Au contraire....its never heresy, not to anyone I've read at this site anyway. It can of course be stupidity...or blind pride...or moral narcissism...but never heresy.

Remember, Catherine,  "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." You seem to "know" that Pro-trump people here consider you a heretic or a fool...but that just ain't so...we simply think you are deeply wrong in your assessment of the President and his value to the Conservative movement at this time.

Here's what I consider a truth. There are no more than a handful of ACTUAL NT's and AT's here...virtually all of us fall into the "Sometimes Trump" or "Mostly Trump" category. Those categories suggest solid critical thinking from both parties as its perfectly reasonable to view our President from EITHER of those perspectives. Its only the hardened "Always/Nevers" that have mush for brains...because they've either swallowed everything President Trump says whole OR they've entirely denied all of the positive policies, appointments and resistance to the Left that he has achieved.

Put simply, an Always/Never mindset is what makes the Left so dangerous to free thought and our Republic...its the hallmark of tyranny and intellectual vacuousness. Sometimes/Mostly, on the other hand, is the hallmark of reason.

So, while I think you are sometimes wrong about Trump, I believe that you are mostly a strong conservative and a rational thinker...and absolutely anything but a heretic.

@Mesaclone

I sincerely appreciate that.  Thank you.  And I return the sentiment.  But I disagree that disliking a politician is, if not heresy, stupidity, pride, or narcissism.  It's simply the American way.  To label it those things elevates the politician to an inappropriate level.  I'm not at all comfortable with that.

I don't think most Trump supporters believe we're heretics, but there are some.  My personal attitude toward Trump is a lot like Ben Shapiro's, but he's referred to as NT all the time.  For a few, nothing short of absolute devotion is enough. 

I agree with you about the extremism of the hardcore anti/pro Trump people.  I'm on Twitter and I see it all the time.  Rick Wilson, Jennifer Rubin, and Tom Nichols are proof that hatred of Trump can drive people as crazy as hardcore fanaticism.

My opinion of Trump is that he's the same guy he's always been. But he can sometimes get things done for the country, and that's great.  Then again, sometimes it's the people around him keeping him out of his own way.  Either way, it gets done and his presidency has been good so far. 

What really rubs me the wrong way is the calls to get on board the train, to get behind him, come on, time to support him.   It's an appeal based on what's left of yesterday's emotional high
 Over and over, I've asked what that means--getting behind Trump--and never received an answer.  On this forum, it's obvious---it means stop criticizing him.  Only be positive.  But there's no logical reason behind it, and it's not a healthy position to take.

It seems to me my position is reasonable.  I'm not getting on any politician's train, but he's doing well.  The hard sell, though, serves to do nothing but turn people off.

 






Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Perhaps there was some false hope displayed by the two gentlemen who may have just learned today how deeply some hate is entrenched in this forum, but I wouldn't call it bullshit.

Nah -- it wasn't about false hope.  I think both @Mesaclone and I realize there are a certain number of "incorrigibles" on both sides who will hold past disagreements against each other forever.  For any fans of the original Star Trek, it's the political version of the "Let that Be Your Last Battlefield" episode, where the last two survivors of a war on a planet keep fighting because they just don't know how to stop. 

The larger point being made was that Always Trumpers and NeverTrumpers are very broad labels that don't take into account that people are not monolithic, and that everyone who generally supports Trump is not a fanatical "Always Trumper" who denigrates "NeverTrumpers", and vice-versa.  We were arguing that everyone is not an extremist.

So...the mere fact that we made those arguments proves that point.  And the fact that so many other posters agreed with the sentiment proved it further. Seems to me that the disagreement with what we were saying was limited to comparatively few posters, which proved they are not the majority here.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 08:45:42 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline mystery-ak

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I long for the day when posters will be able to criticize wrong-headed liberal positions coming from Trump without being labeled "NTers".

You and me both!
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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@Mesaclone

I sincerely appreciate that.  Thank you.  And I return the sentiment.  But I disagree that disliking a politician is, if not heresy, stupidity, pride, or narcissism.  It's simply the American way.  To label it those things elevates the politician to an inappropriate level.  I'm not at all comfortable with that.

I don't think most Trump supporters believe we're heretics, but there are some.  My personal attitude toward Trump is a lot like Ben Shapiro's, but he's referred to as NT all the time.  For a few, nothing short of absolute devotion is enough. 

I agree with you about the extremism of the hardcore anti/pro Trump people.  I'm on Twitter and I see it all the time.  Rick Wilson, Jennifer Rubin, and Tom Nichols are proof that hatred of Trump can drive people as crazy as hardcore fanaticism.

My opinion of Trump is that he's the same guy he's always been. But he can sometimes get things done for the country, and that's great.  Then again, sometimes it's the people around him keeping him out of his own way.  Either way, it gets done and his presidency has been good so far. 

What really rubs me the wrong way is the calls to get on board the train, to get behind him, come on, time to support him.   It's an appeal based on what's left of yesterday's emotional high
 Over and over, I've asked what that means--getting behind Trump--and never received an answer.  On this forum, it's obvious---it means stop criticizing him.  Only be positive.  But there's no logical reason behind it, and it's not a healthy position to take.

It seems to me my position is reasonable.  I'm not getting on any politician's train, but he's doing well.  The hard sell, though, serves to do nothing but turn people off.

Well said.  It's inevitable that some conservatives are going to find themselves in opposition to a lot of stuff Trump does.  It's perfectly fine to argue/debate those points, but the insistence on  broad declarations of "support Trump" are wrong-headed.   The only time that kind of broadly-stated support is really required, or even relevant, is when it is time to cast a vote.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 08:48:39 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online DCPatriot

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If NeverTrumpers unite to back Trump, then by definition they are not NeverTrumpers.  But hey, we have been putting up with this passive BS for a couple of years now.  The NT label gets tossed out there, and then the cowardly response about how you really weren't talking to any of the people here who have been labeled NT numerous times in the past.

The very gist of the op-ed is that because of the Kavanaugh fight, Conservatives are united in supporting Trump.  Yet here you are still here sewing division with incessant bitching about NTers (without naming any names, of course) instead of rejoicing at the satisfaction of unity.

RE: bold.  You misspelled "republicans"

Just because Erick Erickson found Jesus this week, doesn't follow that people who call themselves Conservatives are united behind him.

Jesus......that's the basis for the entire frigging argument here.

Too many so-called conservatives right here on this forum won't budge from their positions.
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Offline Frank Cannon

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I long for the day when posters will be able to criticize wrong-headed liberal positions coming from Trump without being labeled "NTers".

I long for the day when McDonalds goes back to their old recipe of tallow and cottonseed oil for their fries. That's never going to happen either.

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Well said.  It's inevitable that some conservatives are going to find themselves in opposition to a lot of stuff Trump does.  It's perfectly fine to argue/debate those points, but the insistence on  broad declarations of "support Trump" are wrong-headed.   The only time that kind of broadly-stated support is really required, or even relevant, is when it is time to cast a vote.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Thank you.

Offline INVAR

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Too many so-called conservatives right here on this forum won't budge from their positions.

Why should we?

You and yours do nothing to persuade - only to intimidate, ridicule and chastise the very core and foundations we hold because we do not genuflect Trump to your satisfaction.

You have driven any possible support away as you continue to illustrate yourselves as unhinged and as dangerous to personal liberty as the Marxist Left does.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online DCPatriot

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Why should we?

You and yours do nothing to persuade - only to intimidate, ridicule and chastise the very core and foundations we hold because we do not genuflect Trump to your satisfaction.

You have driven any possible support away as you continue to illustrate yourselves as unhinged and as dangerous to personal liberty as the Marxist Left does.

So....I'm put on this earth to "persuade" you to demonstrably support Pres. Trump, huh?

You can't make up your mind based upon events of the past two years??

GTFO.....    :pop41:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline RoosGirl

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I thought this was a new thread, but scanning through I can see that I've read it at least 50 times before.

Offline Frank Cannon

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I thought this was a new thread, but scanning through I can see that I've read it at least 50 times before.

So you are saying that calling people Never Trump cucks is timeless?

Offline Sanguine

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I long for the day when posters will be able to criticize wrong-headed liberal positions coming from Trump without being labeled "NTers".

You and I both, Hoodat.

Offline Emjay

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Well said.  It's inevitable that some conservatives are going to find themselves in opposition to a lot of stuff Trump does.  It's perfectly fine to argue/debate those points, but the insistence on  broad declarations of "support Trump" are wrong-headed.   The only time that kind of broadly-stated support is really required, or even relevant, is when it is time to cast a vote.

But, but, but Major.  The reasonable person you think you are having a discussion with has personally insulted me on numerous occasions.  I don't enjoy that as much as maybe I should.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Online Hoodat

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RE: bold.  You misspelled "republicans"

I wasn't referring to Republicans.  I was referring to Conservatives.  Thus, the word 'Conservatives'.


Just because Erick Erickson found Jesus this week,

I have a very, very, very low opinion of Erickson.   His position turns on a dime.   And he is a self-grandizing blowhard on the radio.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline INVAR

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So....I'm put on this earth to "persuade" you to demonstrably support Pres. Trump, huh?

You can't make up your mind based upon events of the past two years??

GTFO.....

You're the one pissed off that we will not budge from our position.

I simply asked you why we should and offered one reason why we haven't.

But then, as always - you go and do what you always do and assert that everyone should see your political hero as you do, and damn us to hell if we do not.

Which makes the point I contend, that people with your mindset are as dangerous to liberty as the unhinged Left and their mindset.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online DCPatriot

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You're the one pissed off that we will not budge from our position.

I simply asked you why we should and offered one reason why we haven't.

But then, as always - you go and do what you always do and assert that everyone should see your political hero as you do, and damn us to hell if we do not.

Which makes the point I contend, that people with your mindset are as dangerous to liberty as the unhinged Left and their mindset.

Uh.... I didn't damn you to hell, because I don't give a damn what you do at this point.

You're completely devoid of pragmatism.  You're merely a fanatic zealot, waiting for YOUR hero.

Mine's living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW.
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Online roamer_1

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Trump is so flawed as a leader, a politician and as a  human being that this "Never Trump" will never support him. The Trump cult can pass that doobie among themselves but I'll pass.. :shrug:

@montanajoe
YEP.

Quote
I think the Judge will vote pretty much as Kennedy has on most cases and on the social issues he will rename the opinions he wrote for Kennedy as a clerk but the outcome won't change..

The fact is as much as I'd like to see it Roe will never be overturned. This circus over Kavanaugh shows that it may be the one/only issue that motivates the base on both sides to keep electing the idiots in Washington... :shrug:

YEP.
Lose a Scalia and a Kennedy
replace with two Kennedys.
The math don't work out.

What bothers me is having to rise to defend the mediocre.
Lindsey Graham the great defender of conservatism...
Susan Collins, the great orator and defender of liberty...
And the Turtle, master parlimentarian, saves us all.

What a shit show.
Bread and circuses.


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   Maybe there's hope for US after all @roamer_1 the Trumpers no longer hate Collins and Graham.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Frank Cannon

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« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 10:16:56 pm by Mod2 »

Silver Pines

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@Hoodat

Damn. Just when I want to defend some who are not yet supporting the President...there you go again.

We are not supporting Trump vs Conservatism...we are supporting Trump because he is the most effective and ardent advocate FOR Conservatism. Yes, you have every right to criticize deficit spending...just as I could fairly criticize Reagan for the same...but you are wrong to pretend that Trump is not doing a whole catalog of other things that are powerfully ADVANCING the conservative cause.

So WE don't support Trump while YOU support Conservatism...we support Trump BECAUSE he advances Conservatism. Your expression to the contrary is disingenuous and counterproductive because you unfairly question the motives of those with whom you disagree.

@Mesaclone, this is what I was talking about earlier.  @Hoodat said " I have heaped plenty of praise on President Trump and have loudly defended him against the lies of the left.  Yet that still isn't good enough for you."

But you're saying he doesn't yet support the president.  What do you want?  Seriously.