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Offline mystery-ak

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301 ‘Predator Priests’ Named In Pa. Grand Jury Sex Abuse Report: ‘They Were Raping Little Boys & Girls’
By Andy Sheehan
August 14, 2018 at 5:15 pm

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) — The long-awaited state grand jury report into sexual abuse in six Pennsylvania dioceses, including Pittsburgh and Greensburg, has finally been released.

The 884-page document, two years in the making, shines a light into the dark corners of these dioceses going back seven decades, exposing the predators and the efforts of their bishops to protect them.

“Today, the most comprehensive report on child sexual abuse within the church ever produced in our country was released,” Attorney General Josh Shapiro said. “Pennsylvanians can finally learn the extent of sexual abuse in these dioceses. For the first time, we can all begin to understand the systematic cover up by church leaders that followed. The abuse scarred every diocese. The cover up was sophisticated. The church protected the institution at all costs.”

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https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/08/14/pennsylvania-diocese-sex-abuse-grand-jury-report-released/
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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In regard to this whole fiasco, one can't help asking: How did this get so far out of hand? It's not like this is isolated to Pennsylvania: the American Catholic Church has had similar stories popping up almost everywhere!

It does make you wonder whether or not other denominations have similar issues. I do know that a local Methodist church had its pastor caught up in a similar scandal, but that was caught within days of it happening and he was out of the church. Perhaps the Roman Catholic Church had so much clout that it could repress it... but still, how could such a massive scandal be so pervasive?

The only theory I can come up with is this: the church's demand for a vow of celibacy is scaring away those who have normal desires for love and marriage, and instead drawing perverts who don't desire a wife but instead want far more sinister sexual desires fulfilled. An unintended consequence, if you will.
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Offline TomSea

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I don't know the proper terminology per what happened to these dioceses and archdioceses per the court, but I thought the Northern New Mexico, Los Angeles, Boston, Minneapolis-St. Paul, so many dioceses have gone under per these scandals. Bankruptcy or close to it.

Offline Applewood

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@jmyrlefuller

This has been going on for decades.  I remember some years ago, a number of priests were accused.  Some were arrested and prosecuted.  At the time, the bishops and the rest of the church hierarchy promised things would change.   Well, they changed all right -- for the worst.  In the old days, the practice was to send the offending priest to retreats or in-house counseling and many of these predators were simply transferred from one parish to another.  Swell!  A new parish, a new crop of children to molest or worse. 

Anyway, presumably, the church promised -- no more moving the predator from parish to parish, no more "counseling" or "retreats."  The offender would be removed and turned over to the authorities for prosecution. 

Apparently, it wasn't done. In fact, in my local diocese, the former bishop, now a cardinal, actively and knowingly covered up.  He ought to be in jail along with the predators. 

The Catholic Church has been dwindling in my neck of the woods for a number of years.  This report will drive more Catholics away.

Offline Mod1

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Hi all....

The posts on this thread are good, and I'd like to see more analysis like this. 

A cautionary note: If this thread becomes a place for Catholic or Christian bashing, posts will be removed without comment.

Thank you in advance.

Offline Sanguine

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What a horrible story.  Incalculable damage, not only to the victims, but to those just trying to do the right thing and live the right way within the church. 

Offline Cyber Liberty

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What a horrible story.  Incalculable damage, not only to the victims, but to those just trying to do the right thing and live the right way within the church.

These things smear everybody in the Church...Top to bottom and everybody in between.  I really hate the gloaters in the press, too, but they didn't make this up either.
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Offline thackney

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In regard to this whole fiasco, one can't help asking: How did this get so far out of hand? It's not like this is isolated to Pennsylvania: the American Catholic Church has had similar stories popping up almost everywhere!

It does make you wonder whether or not other denominations have similar issues. I do know that a local Methodist church had its pastor caught up in a similar scandal, but that was caught within days of it happening and he was out of the church. Perhaps the Roman Catholic Church had so much clout that it could repress it... but still, how could such a massive scandal be so pervasive?

The only theory I can come up with is this: the church's demand for a vow of celibacy is scaring away those who have normal desires for love and marriage, and instead drawing perverts who don't desire a wife but instead want far more sinister sexual desires fulfilled. An unintended consequence, if you will.

The Catholic Church, and all Churches, are made of people and sinners, not saints.  While the child abuse is all to common in most all large groups of people, the Catholic Church compounded that problem by hiding and moving those abusers, rather than cooperate with local authorities like most groups do.  The problem is world-wide, not an American Only issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_by_country

The hiding and relocating, lead to more and continuing abuse, increasing the problem.

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Offline GrouchoTex

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The Catholic Church, and all Churches, are made of people and sinners, not saints.  While the child abuse is all to common in most all large groups of people, the Catholic Church compounded that problem by hiding and moving those abusers, rather than cooperate with local authorities like most groups do.  The problem is world-wide, not an American Only issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_by_country

The hiding and relocating, lead to more and continuing abuse, increasing the problem.

40th Statewide Investigating Grand Jury
REPORT 1
Interim --Redacted
http://media-downloads.pacourts.us/InterimRedactedReportandResponses.pdf?cb=42148

100% in agreement.
The should all have been handled through law enforcement, not internally, back decades ago, when this has happened before.
It is horrible that this new batch of kids had to go through this again, because the church didn't learn it's lesson the 1st time.

Offline mirraflake

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I am Catholic.  Stopped going a last year  when our Priest went hardcore SJW.  Almost walked out but did not want to embarrass my wife.

This just another reason not to go.

Offline GrouchoTex

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I don't know the proper terminology per what happened to these dioceses and archdioceses per the court, but I thought the Northern New Mexico, Los Angeles, Boston, Minneapolis-St. Paul, so many dioceses have gone under per these scandals. Bankruptcy or close to it.

After all those cities, and previous incidents you sight, why the Church refused to amend its playbook and treat these as the crimes that they really are, is beyond me.

Offline sneakypete

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After all those cities, and previous incidents you sight, why the Church refused to amend its playbook and treat these as the crimes that they really are, is beyond me.

@GrouchoTex

This shouldn't surprise anyone. To Catholics,the "Holy Mother Church" ranks right up there with God,and MUST be protected from attacks at all costs.

Things really went sideways when The Church quit allowing Priests to marry in order to make sure property was left to the Church in Rome,not the local priests or their wives and children. Before that,Popes even had mistresses and bastard children living with them in the Vatican,and suddenly no new priests are allowed to be ordained if they are married. Right away this eliminates heterosexual males,and limits your replacement base to asexuals (who tend to hate EVERYBODY that has sex),child molesters, and/or homosexuals. In other words,people with no real emotional human connection to their parishioners. Gee,what could POSSIBLY go wrong there?

If they want to keep their doors open,it is only a matter of time before they MUST start allowing nuns to become Priestess.  Which is going to make a LOT of Catholics mad. I honestly don't understand why,but I do know it will. There HAS to be more to it than just tradition.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 05:52:28 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline GrouchoTex

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@GrouchoTex

This shouldn't surprise anyone. To Catholics,the "Holy Mother Church" ranks right up there with God,and MUST be protected from attacks at all costs.

Things really went sideways when The Church quit allowing Priests to marry in order to make sure property was left to the Church in Rome,not the local priests or their wives and children. Before that,Popes even had mistresses and bastard children living with them in the Vatican,and suddenly no new priests are allowed to be ordained if they are married. Right away this eliminates heterosexual males,and limits your replacement base to asexuals (who tend to hate EVERYBODY that has sex),child molesters, and/or homosexuals. In other words,people with no real emotional human connection to their parishioners. Gee,what could POSSIBLY go wrong there?
<P>
If they want to keep their doors open,it is only a matter of time before they MUST start allowing nuns to become Priestess.  Which is going to make a LOT of Catholics mad. I honestly don't understand why,but I do know it will.

Celibacy seems odd to me.
I've never understood it, but I confess (no pun intended) that I am not Catholic.
I would wonder if it is viewed as a mere inconvenience or formality by today's priest, by those who have violated it.
Obviously, it was ignored.
Is there a possibility, with human urges, in modern times with sex everywhere, that it was just too difficult a standard to abide by?

It may play a role, but I am not sure of this being the totality of the problem.

If it were only that, why the pedophilia?
Why not just sex between adults?

Something is still amiss here.


Offline sneakypete

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Celibacy seems odd to me.
I've never understood it, but I confess (no pun intended) that I am not Catholic.
I would wonder if it is viewed as a mere inconvenience or formality by today's priest, by those who have violated it.
Obviously, it was ignored.
Is there a possibility, with human urges, in modern times with sex everywhere, that it was just too difficult a standard to abide by?

It may play a role, but I am not sure of this being the totality of the problem.

If it were only that, why the pedophilia?
Why not just sex between adults?

Something is still amiss here.

@GrouchoTex

You put your finger on the pressure point when you wrote "celibacy seems odd to me.". It seems odd to ALL heterosexuals,and those are the ones that want to practice the ONLY church-approved form of sex,so it should be no surprise that damn few heterosexual males under 60  have any interest in being a priest.

On the other hand,it DOES attract those on the deviant side of the ledger because they (rightly) see the role of Priest as being the safest spot on Earth for a pedophile to hide in plain sight and never be arrested. Even parents that might catch him in the act or who have been told by their children he molested them would have a tendency to remain silent because they have been taught since the time they were children that Priests sit at the right hand side of God,and neither they nor "the church" must ever be criticized.

There could be no other possible result than a Priesthood filled with sexual deviants of one type or another. 
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Offline Applewood

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Celibacy seems odd to me.
I've never understood it, but I confess (no pun intended) that I am not Catholic.
I would wonder if it is viewed as a mere inconvenience or formality by today's priest, by those who have violated it.
Obviously, it was ignored.
Is there a possibility, with human urges, in modern times with sex everywhere, that it was just too difficult a standard to abide by?

It may play a role, but I am not sure of this being the totality of the problem.

If it were only that, why the pedophilia?

Why not just sex between adults?

Something is still amiss here.

Celibacy is not a requirement of the Ten Commandments nor did Jesus adocate it.  Iit's a man-made church law that supposedly resuled from the writings of St. Paul. Paul never married and he had opined that it was better to stay single so one could dedicate oneself more to God, whereas a married person would be distracted by the cares of spouse and family.  He did not say a person had to be celibate and in fact, said if one could not be celibate, then it was "better to marry than to burn" in hell. 

But even when celibacy was required of Catholic clergy, many did not follow it.    And for the few priests the church has today, it is indeed a difficult vow to maintain.  I know of a couple of priests who left the priesthood because they could not remain celibate 

Why pedophilia?  Just my dumb opinion, but I'd say it's more convenient.  Priests come into contact with children all the time.  For many in the parishes, ministering to children is one of the priests' duties.  So there is far more contact with young children and teens than with older adults like parents. 

And the children are much easier to seduce.  As kids, we were taught to place our entire trust in our priest and we were required to obey him, no matter what.  If Father told us to do something, even things that made us uncomfortable, we would do it because Father said so.  Father was God's representative on earth and if we disobeyed or told anyone, we were defying and disobeying God.  If we objected, Father could try to inflict guilt on us.  He could even threaten us with God's punishment if we didn't follow orders.  As kids, guilt and the threat of God's punishment was a great way to get us kids to do what adults wanted -- good or bad.

I don't know that lifting the ban against marriage for clergy would make the pedophilia problem go away.  Pedophilia is a sickness. Like rape, it's not really about sex or the attractiveness of one's  partner.  It's about power and dominance.  I think pedophiles have very deep problems with personal relationships with adults -- and it doesn't have to be romantic relationships.  These people need to dominate someone and for many, that someone is a young, weak, helpless child.

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Celibacy seems odd to me.
I've never understood it, but I confess (no pun intended) that I am not Catholic.
@GrouchoTex

Remember that it's not just Catholicism, but all Bible-believing Chistianity, that has Scripture indicating that's what God wants of us (I Corinthians 7:1).  But also, He knows we're not perfect, and most of us can't follow His way, so He gives a fall-back position (I Corinthians 7:2).

There's something to be said for trying to follow God's path, and remember that some -- such as Paul -- can do it.  But if one can't, then he should admit that RCC priesthood isn't for him.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 07:39:10 pm by Suppressed »
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Offline Applewood

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Meanwhile, the Vatican has nothing to say:

Pressure mounts on Pope Francis to address sexual abuse detailed in Pennsylvania grand jury report

Quote
The Vatican has declined to respond to an explosive grand jury report detailing decades of sexual abuse and cover-ups by priests and bishops in Pennsylvania, refusing even to say whether church officials in Rome have read the damaging documents.

“We have no comment at this time,” Paloma Ovejero, deputy director of the Vatican’s press office, said Wednesday.

But in the United States and elsewhere, pressure is mounting on Pope Francis to address a rapidly escalating crisis that has spread across several continents, from Australia to Latin America.

...

Read more at:

https://fox43.com/2018/08/15/pressure-mounts-on-pope-francis-to-address-sexual-abuse-detailed-in-pennsylvania-grand-jury-report/




Offline mountaineer

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Pittsburgh's former bishop - now Cardinal Donald Wuerl - is being soundly criticized for the cover-ups in these cases. The question is whether the pope will do anything about him. I'm not Roman Catholic, but read with interest some tweets by actress Patricia Heaton, who is Catholic:
Quote
Patricia Heaton  Verified account @PatriciaHeaton
24h24 hours ago

The PA report is disgusting and stomach-churning. And mentioned more than 200 times is @Cardinal_Wuerl , who currently resides in his luxury DC penthouse. He is @Pontifex 's man in Washington, and only @Pontifex can get rid of him. Get to work, Francis.

Patricia Heaton added,

And let's not forget - this is just ONE state. Tip of the iceberg. Which means there are thousands of more victims, and hundreds of more priests, bishops and cardinals complicit in rape and sexual assault.  #CatholicChurch

In a CBS report, @Cardinal_Wuerl refers to the sexual abuse of children as priests’ “failures.“ Failures?! Are you kidding me?! They are sex crimes! Zero repentance from this horrific man. #WuerlMustGo @Pontifex
LOTS of supportive comments ensued.
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Offline dfwgator

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@jmyrlefuller

 

The Catholic Church has been dwindling in my neck of the woods for a number of years.  This report will drive more Catholics away.

Pope Che, has been doing his best to make it happen as well.

Offline libertybele

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In regard to this whole fiasco, one can't help asking: How did this get so far out of hand? It's not like this is isolated to Pennsylvania: the American Catholic Church has had similar stories popping up almost everywhere!

It does make you wonder whether or not other denominations have similar issues. I do know that a local Methodist church had its pastor caught up in a similar scandal, but that was caught within days of it happening and he was out of the church. Perhaps the Roman Catholic Church had so much clout that it could repress it... but still, how could such a massive scandal be so pervasive?

The only theory I can come up with is this: the church's demand for a vow of celibacy is scaring away those who have normal desires for love and marriage, and instead drawing perverts who don't desire a wife but instead want far more sinister sexual desires fulfilled. An unintended consequence, if you will.

Agreed.  How did this get so out of hand?  7 decades and nothing was done?  I would venture to say that this infects other denominations and groups where children place their trust the most; their clergy, boy scouts, girls scouts, teachers, etc., etc.  As parents we assume that these 'loving' role models for our children are outstanding citizens, and we place our precious innocent and most often helpless children in their care.  How does a preschool child or elementary child or perhaps younger know what's going on or how to tell mommy or daddy what happened.

What a vile and disgusting society that we are living in!  God help us.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 12:38:27 am by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

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Offline libertybele

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Throw the predator priests in prison and let the prison population give them a little taste of what these kids have been through!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline sneakypete

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Agreed.  How did this get so out of hand?  7 decades and nothing was done?  I would venture to say that this infects other denominations and groups where children place their trust the most; their clergy, boy scouts, girls scouts, teachers, etc., etc.  As parents we assume that these 'loving' role models for our children are outstanding citizens, and we place our precious innocent and most often helpless children in their care.  How does a preschool child or elementary child or perhaps younger know what's going on or how to tell mommy or daddy what happened.

What a vile and disgusting society that we are living in!  God help us.

@libertybele

Of course they do,but with other churches it's USUALLY some assistant whatever,not the head guy because the head guy is almost always married and his wife is a leader in that church and in contact with all the women. The Catholic Church is the only western religion that REQUIRES the head guy be unmarried and celibate.

IIRC,some Asian religions require all their monks/whatevers to be celibate also,but they rarely have trouble with them because they all live in "monk nunneries" where no women are allowed to even visit. They might spend 24 hours a day humping each other for all we know,but they damn sure aren't raping children.
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Agreed.  How did this get so out of hand?  7 decades and nothing was done?  I would venture to say that this infects other denominations and groups where children place their trust the most; their clergy, boy scouts, girls scouts, teachers, etc., etc.  As parents we assume that these 'loving' role models for our children are outstanding citizens, and we place our precious innocent and most often helpless children in their care.  How does a preschool child or elementary child or perhaps younger know what's going on or how to tell mommy or daddy what happened.

What a vile and disgusting society that we are living in!  God help us.

I think you are on to something here.
Pedophiles would be inclined to take jobs where their victims would be easy to access and manipulate, and, of course, victimize.
Local radio talk show host Michael Berry remembered an article that he'd read a decade or 2 ago about a NAMBLA convention.
How they were able to hold a convention without being thrown in jail is beyond me.
The article said they actually had a job seminar, where they discussed jobs that would put them in the best places to practice their perversion.
The job the article mentioned was school librarian.
Sad to see that the church didn't understand this and take action early on.
This isn't a new problem.


Offline mountaineer

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Quote
American Bishops Have a Chance to Show the World What Repentance Looks Like
The Church's sex scandals could serve as a witness to the power of humility.
By Joshua Charles
Published on August 16, 2018

I recently became Catholic after a lifetime as a Protestant.

One of the things that brought me into the Church was the many amazing stories of its saints. In particular, the public repentance of some of its greatest sons and daughters struck me.  ...

In light of the horrifying scandals, first with Cardinal McCarrick, and now with the disgusting news out of Pennsylvania, it is my humble suggestion that the American Church follow Saint Ambrose’s example — but in reverse. The Bishops who have been implicated should do public penance before the world. They should repent before the victims they have so callously scorned, and before the flocks whose trust they have so viciously violated.

Pope Francis should come to America, and with the various American Bishops who have been played a part in recent scandals, publicly defrock them, administer public admonishment and penance, and have each of them on their knees and faces begging for the forgiveness of their flocks, in a public arena, before the eyes of the entire world.  ... More at The Stream

A little church history in this article, for those interested.
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Offline Applewood

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Pittsburgh's former bishop - now Cardinal Donald Wuerl - is being soundly criticized for the cover-ups in these cases. The question is whether the pope will do anything about him. I'm not Roman Catholic, but read with interest some tweets by actress Patricia Heaton, who is Catholic:LOTS of supportive comments ensued.

Wuerl is the bishop I was talking about previously.  He's more politician than Cardinal -- smarmy, always smiling while he stabs you in the back type.  Never liked or trusted him.  He let this [expletive] go on probably to protect his image and his "turf."  When Pope John Paul II passed, some people thought Wuerl had a shot at being named his successor.  Wishful thinking, but it's rumored Wuerl did lobby for it in some way. 

I do not expect the current pope to do anything meaningful about this scandal.  He's too busy being an SJW and criticizing Americans for not  being generous enough to the poor and not wanting to open our borders to illegals and supposed refugees.  Don't like him at all and I wish Pope Benedict could have stayed on.