Former Presidential Candidate Proposes Executive Order Declaring Obama Ineligible

[Fantasywriter]

Nope.  A juror is not obligated under the law to believe a witness, especially not a defendant.  That's true even if there is no direct, irrrefutable proof that he is most certainly lying.

You are missing the point. The point being that Obama could put a slew of reputable witnesses on the stand to swear that he BELIEVED he was born in HI. He can't be convicted of a fraud for simply believing something that LATER was shown to be untrue.

[Elderberry]

You are missing the point. The point being that Obama could put a slew of reputable witnesses on the stand to swear that he BELIEVED he was born in HI. He can't be convicted of a fraud for simply believing something that LATER was shown to be untrue.

I find it very hard to believe that a jury would buy that Obama thought he was born in HI after his half-brother Malik testifies that Obama was born in Kenya.

[darroll]

This whole thread just shows how organized crime works.

[Fantasywriter]

I find it very hard to believe that a jury would buy that Obama thought he was born in HI after his half-brother Malik testifies that Obama was born in Kenya.

Malik has never stated as fact that Obama was born in Kenya. He tweeted an unauthenticated Kenyan BC professing to be that of Obama. [Malik has an ax to grind with his rich 1/2 brother. Malik has had 12 wives  (iirc, all but 1 still living) and refuses to divulge the # children he has. When Obama became a millionaire Malik expected to live off his 1/2 brother's largesse.  In typical narcissistic fashion Obama refused to share the wealth. Malik has been gunning for him ever since.] [Edit: evidently all 12 of Malik's wives are still alive.]

One of Obama's other brothers, Mark, has stated definitively that Obama was NOT born in Kenya. That interview was still up on YouTube, last time I checked.

I will say it again. If there were a house or hut in Kenya that could lay claim to having accommodated Stanley Ann Dunham during her pregnancy, we would know about it.  Obama's Kenyan family is dirt poor. If they could identify a house occupied by the mother of a US President, they'd have exploited it long ago.

[Sanguine]

This whole thread just shows how organized crime works.

How so?

[darroll]

How so?

If you have the backing, they will show you are a girl if it suits the corrupt leaders agenda.
ISIS runs deep in our government.

[the_doc]

You are missing the point. The point being that Obama could put a slew of reputable witnesses on the stand to swear that he BELIEVED he was born in HI. He can't be convicted of a fraud for simply believing something that LATER was shown to be untrue.

LOL.  Witnesses for Obama would have almost no credibility, because Obama is a known liar surrounded by known liars--and his witnesses would have to be lying to swear to such a crazy notion that Obama had definitely come to believe that he was born in Hawaii after all.  (Besides, Obama might have just told his buddies that.)   

***

Anyway, please quit moving the goalposts by now theorizing a slew of liars that the jurors would surely have to believe.  (That's not the way you started out.  You started out be insinuating that jurors would have to believe a defendant if he made a given sworn statement that the prosecution could not completely refute.  But as I pointed out in a previous post, the law does not work so simplistically.  I will grant that your theory of a defense might be the one they wind up trying--because it would be Obama's only hope--but it would get crushed.  Military judges will not be impressed.)   

This is not an interesting, much less fruitful line of discussion. 

[roamer_1]

Sinkspur and I exchange texts every now in then....when something in the news REALLY upsets him.

Wish I could say he'd be great here... still love the guy.   

But he's not softened up on The Man one bit.

He's our @roamer_1  on steroids.    (hat tip)

@DCPatriot
Me and Sink always got along.

[Quix]

No, I have been lucky in that regard and I recognize that because some of my family members (not close ones) have not been as lucky.

I guess I should show more compassion to those that cannot fight their addictions.  I also blame the people responsible for pushing drugs, including some in the medical community.

But I find it hard to excuse evil actions even if drug induced.

At least he recognizes his part in troubling his own life. Many times he rises above it. Sometimes, not.

[Sanguine]

If you have the backing, they will show you are a girl if it suits the corrupt leaders agenda.
ISIS runs deep in our government.

Sorry, not getting it.  I am a girl.  Whether it suits anyone's agenda or not.

[LegalAmerican]

It will be a big mess to untangle the legal mess of illegal appointments and illegal executive orders and illegal legislations, but we definitely need to slog through the whole mess.

Besides, we need to mete out retributive justice against Obama and everyone else who was complicit in every facet of the overall conspiracy to ruin our Republic--the birthplace fraud necessarily included.





Chosen is wrong. It was Hillary Clinton who started the birther thing, as she KNOWS, obama is a fraud.  Then the two, demon-rats, kissed and made up.

Offline GrouchoTex
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Re: Former Presidential Candidate Proposes Executive Order Declaring Obama Ineligible
« Reply #83 on: August 16, 2018, 10:15:17 AM »
Quote
Quote from: LegalAmerican on August 15, 2018, 10:28:49 PM


No claim,,fact.  Even a book by obama says, born in Kenya, and they are all so proud! Then he says it, In Kenya and manchells on video. It seems this site is protected from truth.  So much information on this.  That is why obama sued Joe on trumped up charge.

Sure it is, just like the tooth fairy.

I thought that it might be at one time, then I wized up.

It was well over a year ago the Joe Arpiao was going to Washington and was going release this information"Any day now".
His definition of "any day" and mine are years apart.
That's why I joke and say he must be taking it by Wagon Train, because it hasn't managed to find its way there yet.

I'll say this:

Everyone who is convinced of this, and claims the truth is out there, Like Scully and Mulder, I have a couple of questions:

What is taking Sheriff Joe, Orly, Apuzzo, etc., so long to release this?
What are they waiting for?

Don't tell me the midterms, because that would be B.S.
With the Trump Clinton race so tight, that would have been the time to release it, but, no.
Are they scared?
Of what?
Not very patriotic, if the are.
There's no "Give me Liberty or Give Me Death" in this crowd.
Wimps?
Maybe.

They just don't have the goods.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 10:16:01 AM by GrouchoTex »
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[the_doc]

@LegalAmerican

You need to read my #103 responding to GrouchoTex's #83.  Then read his response #104 and our chat from #105 through #107.  Everything's cool.  (I am the Dale Carnegie of peacemaking and polemics. )

[bigheadfred]

This whole thread just shows how organized crime works.

Bingo


I would bet there isn't any member of Congress, a substantial part of the judiciary, and ALL of the intelligence community-DOJ, NSA, FBI, etc., that would throw their hat in the ring to prove obama as the fraud he is.

[bigheadfred]

@LegalAmerican

You need to read my #103 responding to GrouchoTex's #83.  Then read his response #104 and our chat from #105 through #107.  Everything's cool.  (I am the Dale Carnegie of peacemaking and polemics. )

Yet the whole matter rests on the "infamy" of Ron Popeil...set it and forget it...

[Fantasywriter]

LOL.  Witnesses for Obama would have almost no credibility, because Obama is a known liar surrounded by known liars--and his witnesses would have to be lying to swear to such a crazy notion that Obama had definitely come to believe that he was born in Hawaii after all.  (Besides, Obama might have just told his buddies that.)   

***

Anyway, please quit moving the goalposts by now theorizing a slew of liars that the jurors would surely have to believe.  (That's not the way you started out.  You started out be insinuating that jurors would have to believe a defendant if he made a given sworn statement that the prosecution could not completely refute.  But as I pointed out in a previous post, the law does not work so simplistically.  I will grant that your theory of a defense might be the one they wind up trying--because it would be Obama's only hope--but it would get crushed.  Military judges will not be impressed.)   

This is not an interesting, much less fruitful line of discussion.

You appear to be unaware of how courts proceed. In your view, a judge and jury would simply pronounce Obama guilty. I.e.: "There is no need for this defendant to call witnesses. We know a priori that neither he nor his witnesses have any credibility. Rather than bothering with a show trial, let's simply pronounce Obama guilty and move to the penalty stage."

Here in America that's not how a trial works. Just fyi.

[the_doc]

You appear to be unaware of how courts proceed. In your view, a judge and jury would simply pronounce Obama guilty. I.e.: "There is no need for this defendant to call witnesses. We know a priori that neither he nor his witnesses have any credibility. Rather than bothering with a show trial, let's simply pronounce Obama guilty and move to the penalty stage."

Here in America that's not how a trial works. Just fyi.

You are not looking real good in this spat, friend.  Bye.

[bigheadfred]

You appear to be unaware of how courts proceed. In your view, a judge and jury would simply pronounce Obama guilty. I.e.: "There is no need for this defendant to call witnesses. We know a priori that neither he nor his witnesses have any credibility. Rather than bothering with a show trial, let's simply pronounce Obama guilty and move to the penalty stage."

Here in America that's not how a trial works. Just fyi.

Stick with fantasy writing.

[bigheadfred]

If you've not been hit by flying lead...

[GrouchoTex]

@GrouchoTex

Some of the so-called birthers were genuine loons, and unfortunately they gave the entire issue a bad name.  Setting aside all that, here are the basic questions that anyone who believes Obama was born in HI needs to answer:

1: Where in Hi/Honolulu did Stanley Ann Dunham (SAD) live during her pregnancy? Several Obama-friendly biographers have beaten the bushes down there and come up empty.  There isn't a living soul in HI who claims to have seen her on the island subsequent to the conclusion of the 1960 fall term.

2: Why wasn't SAD living with her parents during her pregnancy? That is where she lived during the fall semester. Why did she move out and where did she go?

3: Why was the first (documented) sighting of SAD with a newborn 2,677 from Honolulu?  Why/when did she leave Honolulu? How did she get to Seattle? What possible motivation could she have for spending the exorbitant amount of money plane tickets to and from Honolulu and Seattle cost in the early 60s? Her parents were just scraping by in those days and SAD had zero  $ of her own.

I could add a dozen trenchant questions to the list, but those will do for a start. The truth is out there.

I'm going to keep an open mind, but those who take it to the courts a batting about .000 now.
I think @the_doc has my figured out right. I am just suffering from birther fatigue.

I'll keep checking in and rail"now dammit!" Now and again.

[LegalAmerican]

Ok, Doc. Thanks.  I saw them.

Everything I posted is old news, and verified. YEARS AGO,  I did not want to re-create the wheel for Tex.

[GrouchoTex]

Ok, Doc. Thanks.  I saw them.

Everything I posted is old news, and verified. YEARS AGO,  I did not want to re-create the wheel for Tex.

I'm not sure what to say.
My first vote in a Presidential election was cast for Ronald Reagan, so this ain't my first rodeo.
I know you'd like to think so, but trust me,you are not telling me anything I hadn't heard before.
YEARS AGO.

[Fantasywriter]

@the_doc
@bigheadfred

I must have wormholed back to TOS. There, it is standard to substitute insults, ad hominem and other snark for rational discussion.  That's the reason I don't spend one nanosecond missing that place; it is an intellectual wasteland.

[Bigun]

@the_doc
@bigheadfred

I must have wormholed back to TOS. There, it is standard to substitute insults, ad hominem and other snark for rational discussion.  That's the reason I don't spend one nanosecond missing that place; it is an intellectual wasteland.

Wasn't always that way but now yes.

[the_doc]

@GrouchoTex

I'm going to keep an open mind, but those who take it to the courts a batting about .000 now.
I think @the_doc has my figured out right. I am just suffering from birther fatigue.

I'll keep checking in and rail"now dammit!" Now and again.

Do you remember how many of the court cases were immediately thrown out on the grounds that the plaintiff had no legal standing to sue?  Practically all of them.

And do you remember what happened in the very first case that was filed by someone who was determined by a federal judge to have standing?  The lawsuit involved an Army Major (Reservist) who was called up to go to Iraq--and he refused to go unless Obama could prove that he was the lawful Commander in Chief.  The Los Angeles Federal District Judge (an ex-Marine, I am told) said something to the effect that "We're finally going to get to the bottom of this Birther thing.  The Major has legal standing to sue by virtue of the fact that he is being ordered into a war zone."

The judge immediately started scheduling all of the proceedings for a trial.  But immediately thereafter, the Major received a notice from the U.S. Army that his deployment order had been canceled.  The Major's standing for the lawsuit instantly evaporated, and so also did the court case.

This incident was almost too weird to be believed.  (You don't want to go?  Okay then, you don't have to go.)

***

Over the years, Obama's lawyers were always able to block any meaningful investigation of Obama's eligibility to be POTUS.  It was uncanny.  And although some plaintiff's lawyers made some tactical errors in the legal battles, the deck was always stacked in Obama's favor.

Most of the public eventually got the strong impression that the Birther stuff was nonsense--but that strong impression was the wrong impression.  It was the impression that the public was fed.

[GrouchoTex]

I can't quite recall the Army's answer to the case with the Reserve Major,  but it was something along the lines of reservist don't have to go if they don't want to, which seems really odd at the time, I admit. It wasn't exactly that, of course, but it came off that way.
I'll take a second look at that case.