Author Topic: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’  (Read 916 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« on: August 11, 2018, 04:40:03 pm »
American Greatness
Michael Walsh
Aug. 11, 2018

The #NeverTrumpumpkins define themselves by their visceral distaste for the president. He offends their fastidious sensibilities, outrages them with his unfiltered Twitter musings, and violates their sense of propriety with his secular hedonism and sheer joy in his own vulgarity. That he’s also delivering the most conservative administration in history is, to them, beside the point—because Trump neither represents nor embodies “movement” conservatism. And therein, for them, lies the problem.

Movements are, almost by definition, attractive to the young and the emotionally immature. Followers love to follow; even more, they love to memorize catechisms and rote talking points, which they parrot on the air and in column inches, as if by simply asserting their “principles” they are proving them as well.

Eventually, though, both content and context are lost and only the talking points remain. The argument from authority becomes as circular and self-referential as any obscure religious contretemps, and of interest only to the anointed. Which is why they fall upon each other with the glee of zealots who have been given orders to purge the heretics by any means necessary.

More... https://amgreatness.com/2018/08/10/farewell-to-the-conservative-movement/

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2018, 04:53:23 pm »
my argument is that conservatism isn’t a movement at all. Nor should it be. Rather, it’s a simple acknowledgement of timeless verities and a willingness to defend them against malevolent faddishness masquerading as “progress,” whose object is the destruction of our culture and its replacement with… well, nothing.

I'll buy this. "Conservatism" is just a label anyone can appropriate. Even decidedly non "conservative" Mitt Romney called himself one.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2018, 04:55:25 pm »
Well Mr Walsh, REAL Conservatism doesn't wrap itself up into a cult of personality and hang its hopes, dreams and purpose upon a single man it would make king/emperor/dictator if it could in order to 'win' either.

Real Conservatism doesn't abandon's principle and spend trillions by incurring new debt in order to get a 'win'.

But we've been told by "real Conservatives" that compromise with the Left is necessary to move 'our ball' down the field.  Even if it means to abandon what we stand for in order to crow 'MAGA!'.

Nope. 

All I have read and witnessed is a whole lot of Trump zealots who have said farewell to Conservatism if it means getting that exuberant feeling of 'winning' by punishing those they hate that do not march in lockstep with them.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2018, 05:05:33 pm »
Well Mr Walsh, REAL Conservatism doesn't wrap itself up into a cult of personality and hang its hopes, dreams and purpose upon a single man it would make king/emperor/dictator if it could in order to 'win' either.


Trump hasn't acted as supreme leader and his supporters know it.


Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2018, 05:06:25 pm »

Trump hasn't acted as supreme leader and his supporters know it.

Oh let him have his fun.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,409
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2018, 05:11:14 pm »
That's quite an admission:  Donald Trump represents the GOP's departure from the conservative movement.  He's not doing the President any favors here.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,700
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2018, 05:15:50 pm »
my argument is that conservatism isn’t a movement at all. Nor should it be. Rather, it’s a simple acknowledgement of timeless verities and a willingness to defend them against malevolent faddishness masquerading as “progress,” whose object is the destruction of our culture and its replacement with… well, nothing.

I'll buy this. "Conservatism" is just a label anyone can appropriate. Even decidedly non "conservative" Mitt Romney called himself one.

And so will I! 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,142
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2018, 05:17:55 pm »
Quote
In short, it’s a recognition of great cultural peril, and the willingness to do something about it.

Other than sitting around talking, dissecting, whining and pointing fingers, few conservatives are willing "to do something about it".  And that is the problem.

The vast majority of conservatives won't mingle with the great unwashed, roll up their shirt sleeves and do the heavy lifting, or ever, ever, ever see a glass as half full rather than empty. 

The art and strategy of politics is beneath them. Give them everything they want in the shape and form they want it, or by golly, they'll continue to sit with all the usefulness of a dust ball in the corner  --- pounding out word after word after word wondering to God why no one is doing what they're telling them to do.

The truth is:  There never was a conservative "movement".  And yet so many conservatives flatter themselves still that it will --- in the fullness of time --- rise in total victory.

Delusion.  And lazy.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,700
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2018, 05:20:34 pm »
That's quite an admission:  Donald Trump represents the GOP's departure from the conservative movement.  He's not doing the President any favors here.

The real question is - how much control does government have over the governed? The Queen of England is very popular despite being an actual hereditary monarch who lives in actual castles, etc., because she doesn’t have any real control. Mugabe, Castro, Kim Jong Un, etc., all different stories.

Strong institutions make up the administrative state. Agency Organization and culture determine how independent they are of the president. They can be corrupt, or just partisan, or just have their own good faith positions about how things should be done. But what ultimately matters is how much effective control they have over the governed.

Unfortunately, in America, the administrative state exercises tremendous amounts of control. So, then we have to ask, do we want a strong president (who is politically accountable but also presents a single-point-of-failure—I.e., pick a bad president and you have a big problem), or a strong administrative state (that is not politically accountable but is more stable over time)? I think I’d prefer the stronger president, knowing I have two branches of government to check a bad president, but that’s a judgment call and others may prefer something different.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,409
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2018, 05:32:07 pm »
@Bigun  Is "neither" a legitimate response?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2018, 05:43:21 pm »
That's quite an admission:  Donald Trump represents the GOP's departure from the conservative movement.  He's not doing the President any favors here.

The writer's point about 'movements' is a good one. Politicians have gotten away with alot of crap over the past 100 years using rubrics and labels.

If we relied less on them many voters would actually have to start using their heads.

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2018, 05:47:58 pm »
The writer's point about 'movements' is a good one. Politicians have gotten away with alot of crap over the past 100 years using rubrics and labels.

If we relied less on them many voters would actually have to start using their heads.

I agree, but it's just not human nature.  They have to feel something for their candidate or he/she isn't their candidate.  We like to think we act out of thoughtfulness, and some of us do at least some of the time, but mostly people act on emotion.  If they don't like the candidate, they generally won't vote for 'em.

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2018, 06:10:01 pm »
I agree, but it's just not human nature.  They have to feel something for their candidate or he/she isn't their candidate.  We like to think we act out of thoughtfulness, and some of us do at least some of the time, but mostly people act on emotion.  If they don't like the candidate, they generally won't vote for 'em.

A great deal of a candidate's appeal is visceral, and that is human nature. Can't avoid it.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,700
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2018, 06:17:57 pm »
@Bigun  Is "neither" a legitimate response?

@Cyber Liberty

At this point, I don't think so.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2018, 06:19:52 pm »

Trump hasn't acted as supreme leader and his supporters know it.

You completely and totally missed what I said.  I did not say a thing about Trump's actions.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2018, 07:29:19 pm »
Other than sitting around talking, dissecting, whining and pointing fingers, few conservatives are willing "to do something about it". 

Some of us have done plenty about it.  Everything from pounding pavement and knocking on doors to talking about our core principles with family, friends, co-workers and neighbors.

Sadly - we've been told to shut up about it; by the very people we once thought were fellows.  People who once argued for the things we used to agree on.  People who now don't want to hear about those things that animate our worldview.  They have transformed themselves into an 'us' or 'them' dynamic.   Vote Republican or go away;  Don't remind us of your lofty principles - they lose elections; shove your morality - we're sick of hearing about it and it's a loser in elections.'

Trying to wake a people who have forgotten and abandoned our heritage and foundations is necessary because the next step is the recognition that we no longer have a commonality - but rather a hostility that will result in kicking the dust from our feet and to move on lest our own foundations also become as corrupted.

Some of us are already past that point in terms of party. 

The vast majority of conservatives won't mingle with the great unwashed, roll up their shirt sleeves and do the heavy lifting, or ever, ever, ever see a glass as half full rather than empty. 

I have 3 decades under my belt of mingling with Chicago Democrats, lifting a ton of signs, banners, mailers, yard signs, door hangers, candidate surveys and arguing for the Republican platform in a land of liberal Democrats.  I've been shoved onto Metra tracks and had everything from spit to coffee flung on me.  I've done all you assert the vast majority do not do and assert applies to me because you are as put off by the truth as assuredly as the Left is. 

Some of us have done more than most, only to get stabbed in the back by our own party leadership and party hacks who value power and control to push for their own brand of Statism.  A repudiation and rejection of the very principles that establish what was once the Conservative worldview for the temporary euphoria of 'winning' by losing those values that you now see as a ball and chain to electoral victory.  As if winning elections is all that matters in life.

The art and strategy of politics is beneath them.

Conservatism is not about the art and strategy of politics.  Conservatism is about living by and standing on principles and persuading the immutable value of their adoption and practice for the sake of maintaining liberty in society.  Conservatism works everytime it is tried it used to be said.  Now we are told that it doesn't work at all outside the art of politics.  The politics that insists we compromise bedrock values that society has rejected order to 'win' political power.  Power vested into a single individual whom is venerated as a political savior and champion.

pounding out word after word after word wondering to God why no one is doing what they're telling them to do.

Biblical history is replete with instance after instance of servants of the Lord who wondered the same exact thing after they were told to go and give their wayward people the message they then rejected.

Compromise with a generation that discarded their foundational principles to accept and adopt ideas anathema to their establishment was not an option for those servants.  Warning their society of the consequences to come was their duty, not to play the art of politics to persuade a people who would not be persuaded except by the golden calves they erected before them because they were tangible and instant in providing gratification.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 07:29:51 pm by INVAR »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 384,061
  • Let's Go Brandon!
Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’ By Michael Walsh
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2018, 11:31:21 pm »
Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
By Michael Walsh| August 10th, 2018

The #NeverTrumpumpkins define themselves by their visceral distaste for the president. He offends their fastidious sensibilities, outrages them with his unfiltered Twitter musings, and violates their sense of propriety with his secular hedonism and sheer joy in his own vulgarity. That he’s also delivering the most conservative administration in history is, to them, beside the point—because Trump neither represents nor embodies “movement” conservatism. And therein, for them, lies the problem.

Movements are, almost by definition, attractive to the young and the emotionally immature. Followers love to follow; even more, they love to memorize catechisms and rote talking points, which they parrot on the air and in column inches, as if by simply asserting their “principles” they are proving them as well.

Eventually, though, both content and context are lost and only the talking points remain. The argument from authority becomes as circular and self-referential as any obscure religious contretemps, and of interest only to the anointed. Which is why they fall upon each other with the glee of zealots who have been given orders to purge the heretics by any means necessary.

I have coined a portmanteau term for this state of affairs: “preenciples.” You know what they are: smaller government, less regulation, free trade, federalism, etc. It’s a creed, constantly professed, acolytes of (fill in the blank: Mises, Hayek, Strauss, Buckley) reassuring each other that by consulting the sacred texts they will always have the correct views on the issues, and thus ensure their place among the elect.

more
https://amgreatness.com/2018/08/10/farewell-to-the-conservative-movement/
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2018, 11:37:45 pm »
Topics merged.

Offline Absalom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,375
Re: Farewell to the ‘Conservative Movement’
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2018, 05:28:44 am »
my argument is that conservatism isn’t a movement at all. Nor should it be. Rather, it’s a simple acknowledgement of timeless verities and a willingness to defend them against malevolent faddishness masquerading as “progress,” whose object is the destruction of our culture and its replacement with… well, nothing.

I'll buy this. "Conservatism" is just a label anyone can appropriate. Even decidedly non "conservative" Mitt Romney called himself one.
---------------------------------------------
Skeeter is on the mark.
Burke considered it an amalgam of attitudes, behaviors,
impulses and sentiments about human nature.