Author Topic: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush  (Read 979 times)

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Offline ABX

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Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« on: August 07, 2018, 04:15:19 pm »
If you are going to play the game, don't cry foul when the rules are used against you. I can find dozens of cases like this where so-called Conservatives got private businesses, radio stations, and other institutions to pull speech and thought they didn't like.

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There are a lot worse things in country music than your wife leaving you or your dog dying. There's stations not playing your music because you done gone and said some things against the president.
Music superstars the Dixie Chicks are finding out that criticizing President Bush's plans for war in Iraq can cost you air play, big time.
Country stations across the United States have pulled the Chicks from playlists following reports that lead singer Natalie Maines said in a concert in London earlier this week that she was "ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas." ....

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/03/14/dixie.chicks.reut/



Offline Wingnut

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2018, 05:12:00 pm »
I fail to see your point. 
I am just a Technicolor Dream Cat riding this kaleidoscope of life.

Offline ABX

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2018, 05:39:43 pm »
I fail to see your point.

Replace Alex Jones with Dixie Chicks and replace WRDNK with YouTube and the story is the same. *

Both sides play this game, so the outrage is hypocritical.

*Except the Dixie Chicks didn't make violent statements like Jones, they just expressed a different political opinion.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 05:40:49 pm by AbaraXas »

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2018, 05:41:51 pm »
Replace Alex Jones with Dixie Chicks and replace WRDNK with YouTube and the story is the same. *

Both sides play this game, so the outrage is hypocritical.

*Except the Dixie Chicks didn't make violent statements like Jones, they just expressed a different political opinion.

I fail to see your point.

Offline Wingnut

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2018, 05:47:17 pm »
I fail to see your point.

He is confusing Karma with censorship. 

He has no point.
I am just a Technicolor Dream Cat riding this kaleidoscope of life.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2018, 05:53:35 pm »
He is confusing Karma with censorship. 

He has no point.

You got that right. The Dixie Whores were not censored. Their own fans turned on them and started burning their CD's. Radio stations just went along with what their listeners wanted. It is no different than when Kathy Griffen did her stupid stunt. No one boycotted her shows. Her own fans got pissed and didn't buy tickets and they were cancelled. Way different then this Alex Jones shit where companies are banning him even though he still has a solid fan base.

Offline ABX

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2018, 05:53:59 pm »
He is confusing Karma with censorship. 

He has no point.

So a radio station banning the Dixie Chicks is not censorship but YouTube banning Alex Jones is?

In both cases, a private business is choosing to ban content it doesn't want. In both cases, it was over political speech it disagreed with (albeit Jones was over violent speech, not political speech).

Do we believe the radio station, as a private business has the right to do that? If so, then why do we not believe YouTube as a private business, has the right to do that?

Offline ABX

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2018, 05:55:58 pm »
You got that right. The Dixie Whores were not censored. Their own fans turned on them and started burning their CD's. Radio stations just went along with what their listeners wanted. It is no different than when Kathy Griffen did her stupid stunt. No one boycotted her shows. Her own fans got pissed and didn't buy tickets and they were cancelled. Way different then this Alex Jones shit where companies are banning him even though he still has a solid fan base.

But the left is doing with Jones exactly what the right did with the Dixie Chicks. They are mass reporting content they don't like, just like the Right doing mass call ins and petitions to radio stations. That's how they get these pages on the radar to be pulled. You can go to pages like Occupy Democrats and you can see their mass reporting games- the modern versions of call banks when the Right mass called radio stations. The technology changed, but the actions remain the same. This is a game our side is played so we shouldn't get triggered when it is played against us.

Worse, in this case, we have people on our side, now calling for the same actions Democrats want, which is to nationalize and regulate those pages like utilities. That is the most disturbing site. If it was just consumers being mad and choosing not to use YouTube or Facebook, that's one thing, but in this case, they want the hammer of Big Brother to fix things.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 05:59:06 pm by AbaraXas »

Offline Wingnut

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2018, 05:57:06 pm »
You got that right. The Dixie Whores were not censored. Their own fans turned on them and started burning their CD's. Radio stations just went along with what their listeners wanted. It is no different than when Kathy Griffen did her stupid stunt. No one boycotted her shows. Her own fans got pissed and didn't buy tickets and they were cancelled. Way different then this Alex Jones shit where companies are banning him even though he still has a solid fan base.

Exactly.  The spit in the face of their base with the anti-american rhetoric.  They screwed the pooch and got what they had coming.   Instant karma.  censorship not found. 
I am just a Technicolor Dream Cat riding this kaleidoscope of life.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2018, 05:57:24 pm »
So a radio station banning the Dixie Chicks is not censorship but YouTube banning Alex Jones is?

In both cases, a private business is choosing to ban content it doesn't want. In both cases, it was over political speech it disagreed with (albeit Jones was over violent speech, not political speech).

Do we believe the radio station, as a private business has the right to do that? If so, then why do we not believe YouTube as a private business, has the right to do that?

LOL. Radio stations didn't ban them on their own. The C&W listeners demanded it, but you keep pounding away like a retarded monkey trying to get a round peg into a square hole to fit your absurd meme. It is entertaining Casper the Friendly Ghost and myself.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2018, 06:52:37 pm »
Do we believe the radio station, as a private business has the right to do that? If so, then why do we not believe YouTube as a private business, has the right to do that?

@AbaraXas
Hold on.
DC's ban was of their music content, not their speech. To extend the question to venues, there you might be comparable, because DC's speechifying was from the stage. But the venues quit booking them because they couldn't sell tickets...

AJ's content and speech are indivisible.

I agree with you in principle, but the example is flawed. The two are not the same.

Offline ABX

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2018, 07:14:57 pm »
@AbaraXas
Hold on.
DC's ban was of their music content, not their speech. To extend the question to venues, there you might be comparable, because DC's speechifying was from the stage. But the venues quit booking them because they couldn't sell tickets...

AJ's content and speech are indivisible.

I agree with you in principle, but the example is flawed. The two are not the same.

Actually, DC's ban was because when they were in Europe on a tour, they said they were 'ashamed of our President'. (the argument was it was during war, post 9/11 and they were undermining our war effort).

Technically, AJ's ban was for calls for violence, not political speech.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2018, 07:19:07 pm »
Actually, DC's ban was because when they were in Europe on a tour, they said they were 'ashamed of our President'. (the argument was it was during war, post 9/11 and they were undermining our war effort).

Technically, AJ's ban was for calls for violence, not political speech.

Technicalities aside, both were condemned for speech. And speech (as in soapbox) is the only part of it that I care about.

Offline ABX

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2018, 07:36:25 pm »
Technicalities aside, both were condemned for speech. And speech (as in soapbox) is the only part of it that I care about.

The right of a business to choose what products it serves to its customers is what I care about. (also first amendment, freedom of association). A right to free speech doesn't give you a right to someone else's platform.

Remember, forums are also considered social media..

And the Democrats are proposing a plan (that is now being cheered on by Republicans) to regulate and even go so far as nationalize some aspects of social media.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2018, 07:59:58 pm »
The right of a business to choose what products it serves to its customers is what I care about. (also first amendment, freedom of association).

Oh, me too.

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A right to free speech doesn't give you a right to someone else's platform.

Agreed.

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Remember, forums are also considered social media..

I know.

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And the Democrats are proposing a plan (that is now being cheered on by Republicans) to regulate and even go so far as nationalize some aspects of social media.

I am not a Republican (*spit*)
As I said, I agree with you.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2018, 09:51:57 pm »
Replace Alex Jones with Dixie Chicks and replace WRDNK with YouTube and the story is the same. *
Not even close.

I suppose you think payola laws don't exist. That's just one of many restrictions music radio has on its content. The equal-time rules and Fairness Doctrine, while no longer enforced, were considered constitutional as well. Furthermore, music radio stations are linear, and thus the amount of content any given station can broadcast is finite, unlike non-linear social media and the Internet, which can host however much they want. In a scarce environment, you end up with curation, and almost all curation is based on popularity. The Dixie Chicks nosedived in popularity after their statement, ergo, country radio was justified in not playing them anymore.

Radio is not open to everyone. The social media sites in question advertise themselves as being open to anyone. They can accommodate anyone. So it's not comparable to radio at all.

Now, one could make the case that at the time, country radio was operating as a cartel (Billboard relied on radio play alone to measure music popularity), but it doesn't invalidate the basic premise.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 09:52:58 pm by jmyrlefuller »
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Flashback- Dixie Chicks pulled from air after bashing Bush
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2018, 02:34:07 pm »
So a radio station banning the Dixie Chicks is not censorship but YouTube banning Alex Jones is?

In both cases, a private business is choosing to ban content it doesn't want. In both cases, it was over political speech it disagreed with (albeit Jones was over violent speech, not political speech).

There's a huge difference I think you're overlooking.

The Dixie Chicks are not professional political commentators whose role is to disseminate their views.  They're musicians who chose to mix politics in with their music, and it was the mixing of their product with politics -- making overt political statements in the middle of concerts -- that caused problems for them with consumers of music, and with businesses that were in the music -  not politics -- business.  And here's the key point -- lots and lots of other people -- including professional commentators, other activists, etc.., were able to get those same views at to the public without issue.  The Chicks were able to do that as well -- just not in concerts to paying customers who boycotted them.  In other words, what happened to the Dixie Chicks was not part of an effort to prevent a particular viewpoint from being heard at all.  They remained completely free to get their political message out in any number of ways unrelated to music.  And that's exactly what they did.


But Jones is a professional political commentator, in the business of political commentary.  Youtube -- and all those other platforms that seek to ban him -- are in the business of disseminating the views of their customers.  There's no disconnect between what Jones was doing, and the business of those companies.  And again, here's the key difference -- the goal in knocking Jones off those platforms is to prevent him from being heard at all.  Or to put it differently -- the Chicks are perfectly free to go to the forum of Youtube, Twitter, or Facebook, and disseminate their political views to anyone who cares to listen.  Jones isn't.  They are supposedly neutral providers who are trying to suppress political views from being heard at all.  That's why they colluded in this action.  To try to silence Jones period.

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Do we believe the radio station, as a private business has the right to do that? If so, then why do we not believe YouTube as a private business, has the right to do that?

Yes.  At least, I believe that both the radio stations and the social media companies were within their legal rights to do what they did, and the government shouldn't get involved (although elected Democrats pressuring them to silence views with which the Democrats do not agree may be a different matter).  But just because they have the legal right to do that doesn't make it wrong for conservatives to point out the bias, and attempt boycotts and pressure of their own against those same media companies.

And I don't like Jones -- I think he's vermin.  But it's not going to stop with Jones, and it is important for conservatives to hammer those businesses at every turn to point out their political bias as a way to help counter it.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 02:40:43 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »