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Author Topic: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law  (Read 1233 times)

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Offline endicom

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Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« on: July 31, 2018, 05:52:55 pm »
National Review
Victor Davis Hanson
July 31, 2018

What is disturbing about the Mueller investigation is not per se that a special counsel is looking into charges of wrongdoing known as “collusion,” but that he is indicting or leveraging suspects, amid a larger landscape of related perceived wrongdoers, who so far have not been subject to the same federal zeal.

We do not know all the details, but the public wonders exactly why Michael Flynn was leveraged to confess about lying to federal authorities (in theory, in part due to surveillance obtained by questionable FISA warrants), while, for example, Clinton aides Human Abedin and Cheryl Mills were given partial immunity for their reported misleading statements about their knowledge of the Clinton email server.

People rightly wonder whether there will be consequences facing Andrew McCabe for allegedly lying about leaking to federal investigators, or for the flagrant way that John Brennan has so serially prevaricated under oath to Congress (about Senate staff computers, drone collateral damage, and the seeding of the Steele dossier).

More... https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/robert-mueller-investigation-perception-inequality/


Once again, it is necessary to state the obvious.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2018, 05:56:44 pm »
And the obvious must be restated over and over again until it sinks in!
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline endicom

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2018, 07:19:15 pm »
Quote from: Bigun on July 31, 2018, 05:56:44 pm
And the obvious must be restated over and over again until it sinks in!


That seems to be so. All eyes are on what surrounds Trump while a variety of dirty Dems laugh.

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Offline edpc

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2018, 07:31:54 pm »
I’m not certain what Mueller, or any prosecutor, is supposed to do when actions predate them or fall outside their purview.  He was in the private sector during the Clinton scandal.  Tony Podesta was not part of the campaign.  Both are not part of the SC scope.  If any action is to be taken, that now falls on Sessions.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2018, 07:36:15 pm »
@Bigun   What size tee shirt do you wear? .. This just might be an early Christmas present.   happy77
 






(it was an ad included with this article )
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2018, 07:44:09 pm »
Those who hope to benefit by setting an IC on this administration don't care what public perception exists as long as they get the political results they want.

And they probably do not much care that they are doing immense damage to collective confidence in our governmental system. Totalitarians rarely care what anyone else thinks as long as they end up calling the shots.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2018, 08:33:37 pm »
Quote from: skeeter on July 31, 2018, 07:44:09 pm
Those who hope to benefit by setting an IC on this administration don't care what public perception exists as long as they get the political results they want.

And they probably do not much care that they are doing immense damage to collective confidence in our governmental system. Totalitarians rarely care what anyone else thinks as long as they end up calling the shots.

Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a winner here folks!  @skeeter nailed it!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 08:34:15 pm by Bigun »
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline edpc

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2018, 11:51:35 pm »
Quote from: endicom on July 31, 2018, 05:52:55 pm
What is disturbing about the Mueller investigation is not per se that a special counsel is looking into charges of wrongdoing known as “collusion,” but that he is indicting or leveraging suspects, amid a larger landscape of related perceived wrongdoers, who so far have not been subject to the same federal zeal.

***********************************

By all means press, again, Paul Manafort to the fullest extent of the law if he violated statutes and unlawfully lobbied for foreign interests, but surely, we must treat the possibly same exposure of Tony Podesta in the same manner.


Since the spring, Mueller has referred matters to SDNY involving longtime Democratic lobbyist Tony Podesta and his work for his former firm, the Podesta Group, and former Minnesota Republican Rep. Vin Weber and his work for Mercury Public Affairs, the sources said.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/31/politics/mueller-investigation-foreign-agent-referrals-new-york/index.html


Well.....how about that.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2018, 12:54:25 am »
Quote from: endicom on July 31, 2018, 05:52:55 pm
National Review
Victor Davis Hanson
July 31, 2018

What is disturbing about the Mueller investigation is not per se that a special counsel is looking into charges of wrongdoing known as “collusion,” but that he is indicting or leveraging suspects, amid a larger landscape of related perceived wrongdoers, who so far have not been subject to the same federal zeal.

We do not know all the details, but the public wonders exactly why Michael Flynn was leveraged to confess about lying to federal authorities (in theory, in part due to surveillance obtained by questionable FISA warrants), while, for example, Clinton aides Human Abedin and Cheryl Mills were given partial immunity for their reported misleading statements about their knowledge of the Clinton email server.

People rightly wonder whether there will be consequences facing Andrew McCabe for allegedly lying about leaking to federal investigators, or for the flagrant way that John Brennan has so serially prevaricated under oath to Congress (about Senate staff computers, drone collateral damage, and the seeding of the Steele dossier).

More... https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/robert-mueller-investigation-perception-inequality/


Once again, it is necessary to state the obvious.

I don't think Mueller and Weissguy give a rat's patootie about the public's perception.  They know about half the country will ignore any improprieties and cheer anything they think leads to impeachment of the dreaded Trump.  The ends justify the means.  Inequality is irrelevant.  Zeal in irrelevant.  Damaging the country is irrelevant.

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Offline Bigun

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2018, 01:08:30 am »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on August 01, 2018, 12:54:25 am
I don't think Mueller and Weissguy give a rat's patootie about the public's perception.  They know about half the country will ignore any improprieties and cheer anything they think leads to impeachment of the dreaded Trump.  The ends justify the means.  Inequality is irrelevant.  Zeal in irrelevant.  Damaging the country is irrelevant.



If we can't be the ones running things we tear it all down!
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline endicom

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2018, 01:15:28 am »
Quote from: edpc on July 31, 2018, 11:51:35 pm

Since the spring, Mueller has referred matters to SDNY involving longtime Democratic lobbyist Tony Podesta and his work for his former firm, the Podesta Group, and former Minnesota Republican Rep. Vin Weber and his work for Mercury Public Affairs, the sources said.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/31/politics/mueller-investigation-foreign-agent-referrals-new-york/index.html


Well.....how about that.


How about what? Are homes and offices being raided? Are Hillary, Obama or their henchpersons being tarred through association?

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2018, 01:35:45 am »
Quote from: endicom on August 01, 2018, 01:15:28 am

How about what? Are homes and offices being raided? Are Hillary, Obama or their henchpersons being tarred through association?

There does seem to be a difference in effort.  Also publicity, but I think we expected that.
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Offline edpc

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2018, 01:36:43 am »
Quote from: endicom on August 01, 2018, 01:15:28 am

How about what? Are homes and offices being raided? Are Hillary, Obama or their henchpersons being tarred through association?


Lots of people here said the prosecution of Manafort on FARA was unfair, since he had worked with Podesta in Ukraine.  Some even swore Podesta would get immunity to testify in the trial.  The scope of the investigation was to investigate those associated with the Trump campaign who may have had Russian contacts and other crimes discovered in process.  Now it’s been referred to SDNY.  It’ll be up to them what to do with the info.  He has no authority to do anything with Hillary or Obama.
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Offline endicom

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2018, 01:40:45 am »
Quote from: edpc on August 01, 2018, 01:36:43 am

The scope of the investigation was to investigate those associated with the Trump campaign who may have had Russian contacts and other crimes discovered in process.


Is that right? It was never about Russian interference in the election but just about Trump?

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Offline Bigun

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2018, 01:43:47 am »
Quote from: edpc on August 01, 2018, 01:36:43 am

Lots of people here said the prosecution of Manafort on FARA was unfair, since he had worked with Podesta in Ukraine.  Some even swore Podesta would get immunity to testify in the trial.  The scope of the investigation was to investigate those associated with the Trump campaign who may have had Russian contacts and other crimes discovered in process.  Now it’s been referred to SDNY.  It’ll be up to them what to do with the info.  He has no authority to do anything with Hillary or Obama.

When I see any current or former democrat brought to justice by a SDNY court I'll recall your post and give proper credit.   So far I can't recall ever having seen such a thing.
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline edpc

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2018, 01:47:07 am »
Quote from: endicom on August 01, 2018, 01:40:45 am
Is that right? It was never about Russian interference in the election but just about Trump?


No.  Like I said, it was about investigating people associated with the Trump campaign who may have had Russian contacts.  The appointment letter clearly stated that.


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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2018, 01:49:21 am »
Quote from: endicom on August 01, 2018, 01:40:45 am

Is that right? It was never about Russian interference in the election but just about Trump?

I was always under the impression that Law Enforcement (and Prosecutors) aren't supposed to ignore crimes because they are beyond the scope of their immediate work.  If an Detective is investigating a car theft, say, and while he's examining the scene a woman runs by with blood all over her head, and a man is chasing her with a hammer, I think the Detective is required to chase down hammer-man, not ignore the assault and battery and resume taking fingerprints.

This is the unfairness VDH is driving at.  Mueller and company appear to be ignoring greater crimes as they go about the work of investigating Trump, a situation that has existed sinve Strzock and Page first learned how to operate cell phones.

I'm probably wrong about this, and will find out in due time....
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Offline edpc

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2018, 01:51:08 am »
Quote from: Bigun on August 01, 2018, 01:43:47 am
When I see any current or former democrat brought to justice by a SDNY court I'll recall your post and give proper credit.   So far I can't recall ever having seen such a thing.


How about Cohen.  He was a Democrat until after the inauguration.  He helped the Dukakis campaign and interned for Joe Moakley.  Now, he’s back to his true self, hiring a Clinton attorney.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2018, 01:52:08 am »
Quote from: Bigun on August 01, 2018, 01:43:47 am
When I see any current or former democrat brought to justice by a SDNY court I'll recall your post and give proper credit.   So far I can't recall ever having seen such a thing.

Giving proper credit won't matter.  If you do that, you will be mocked for weeks for being wrong.
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I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline endicom

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Re: Mueller’s Problem Is Not Trumpers’ Zeal — but the Perception of Inequality under the Law
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2018, 01:57:18 am »
Quote from: edpc on August 01, 2018, 01:47:07 am

No.  Like I said, it was about investigating people associated with the Trump campaign who may have had Russian contacts.  The appointment letter clearly stated that.





Then Podesta, Craig, et al must have been matters arisen.

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