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Author Topic: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow  (Read 4180 times)

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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2018, 04:47:30 am »
Quote from: roamer_1 on July 24, 2018, 04:38:09 am
Which is why I forgive you darlin... But north is above the Mason Dixon Line.. Wouldn't want folks confusing me with a Yankee. Though I ain't a damn Yankee for sure, as I hear tell they're all down in Florida.

I have to drive about an hour and a half north to get to the South.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2018, 05:04:28 am »
Quote from: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on July 24, 2018, 04:47:30 am
I have to drive about an hour and a half north to get to the South.

Oh, so Dade County then....
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Offline thackney

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2018, 11:46:04 am »
Quote from: catfish1957 on July 23, 2018, 07:25:16 pm
You mean I might be able to buy steak for under $8/lb?  Yeah that sucks.  /s

Yes, but only if your steak is made from pork or chicken.
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Offline thackney

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2018, 11:51:03 am »
Quote from: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on July 24, 2018, 04:44:48 am
Is that why the price of feed corn dropped by over 60% shortly after the ethanol mandate was originally established, or why I'm buying sweet corn at about half the price I did this time last year?

Seriously, I hate government mandated ethanol just about as much as anybody.  Almost as much as people repeating BS arguments against it.  There are plenty of REAL arguments against it -- we don't need to water them down with nonsense.

Sweet corn isn't feed corn.  Different crops with different markets.
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Offline thackney

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2018, 11:56:56 am »
Quote from: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on July 24, 2018, 04:44:48 am
Is that why the price of feed corn dropped by over 60% shortly after the ethanol mandate was originally established,...

I am guessing you don't know when the mandate started.





The Energy Policy Act of 2005 mandated the first requirement that renewable fuels be mixed into America’s gasoline supply, and the 2007 Energy Independence and Security Act increased the quotas of the original mandate.

https://www.heritage.org/environment/report/the-ethanol-mandate-dont-mend-it-end-it

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Offline thackney

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2018, 12:01:04 pm »
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2018, 12:23:53 pm »
Quote from: thackney on July 24, 2018, 11:56:56 am
I am guessing you don't know when the mandate started.





The Energy Policy Act of 2005 mandated the first requirement that renewable fuels be mixed into America’s gasoline supply, and the 2007 Energy Independence and Security Act increased the quotas of the original mandate.

https://www.heritage.org/environment/report/the-ethanol-mandate-dont-mend-it-end-it
George W Bush, the original bushwhacker when it comes to ethanol mandates.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2018, 01:02:05 pm »
I don't care who started it, it's wrong.  It's yet another government-induced market distortion with all sorts of unintended (and intended) negative economic effects.  It's real corporate welfare, not the tax incentives liberals love to whine about. 

I've had liberal friends ask me, "Hey, how about that ethanol?  Ain't it great we can have energy without drilling for oil?"  I always reply, "Sure, if you don't mind burning our food and driving the prices of it up for poor people."
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2018, 07:07:16 pm »
Aren't these trade wars fun! /s
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Offline corbe

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2018, 07:12:53 pm »
   Trade Wars are easy ~ DJT
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2018, 07:16:22 pm »
This isn't really about trade wars (at least my objection isn't).  It's about forcing a commodity to be used in a fashion that is sub-optimal to the economy, then subsidizing it to prop up the price.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 07:18:55 pm by Cyber Liberty »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2018, 07:32:15 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on July 24, 2018, 07:16:22 pm
This isn't really about trade wars (at least my objection isn't).  It's about forcing a commodity to be used in a fashion that is sub-optimal to the economy, then subsidizing it to prop up the price.

They come up with a great notion...force it on people and then scratch their heads in confusion when people don't buy it and they have to toss good money after bad to support a losing endeavor.

There is a law of intended consequences with using corn for fuel that goes beyond just steaks on the grill and the price we pay for them at the store that a lot of people don't seem to get.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2018, 07:44:43 pm »
We tax people who want to buy products from China and give the money to people who make products that China won't buy.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2018, 08:53:31 pm »
Oh, Cap'n' Redneck is back telling us what it's about, too bad, he doesn't quite go along with how the people in the most red part of the nation voted...

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2018, 09:58:00 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on July 24, 2018, 08:53:31 pm
Oh, Cap'n' Redneck is back telling us what it's about, too bad, he doesn't quite go along with how the people in the most red part of the nation voted...


Other than just trying to start a fight...what exactly does your comment or video have to do with the discussion at hand?
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2018, 10:08:18 pm »
"Oh, Cap'n' Redneck is back telling us what it's about, too bad, he doesn't quite go along with how the people in the most red part of the nation voted... "

Some of those people are farmers and ranchers, so......
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2018, 12:52:50 am »
Quote from: thackney on July 24, 2018, 11:56:56 am
I am guessing you don't know when the mandate started.


You are correct.  My memory was in error.  I went back to the data, and it turns out that what I was referring to was not the first year of the mandate, but the several year period in the early 80's when ethanol usage went up about by about 40x and the price of corn dropped by around 60%.

However, I think my basic point still holds.  People state (as fact) that putting corn into our gas tanks causes the price of corn to rise, and therefore drives up the price of other foods.  That's a reasonable economic theory.  But, looking at the data, I don't see any compelling argument.  The price of corn is generally higher today than it was pre-mandate, but then it also jumped up a lot more in the early 70's, which probably had nothing to do with ethanol usage.  If ethanol is driving the price of corn higher, what then explains the 50% price drops from 1984-86 (I got a 70mpg moped in 84 and then my first 8mpg gas guzzler in 86?), 1996-1998 (I got a real job in 96, moved out of IA and started driving vehicles that didn't suck?), 2008-2009 (guessing housing bust, not my bad), and 2012-14 (no clue on this one, not even a smart ask quip)?

Could it be that corn prices are higher today due to ethanol usage?  Sure.  Could it be higher demand from China and India (etc)?  Yeah, that too.   Any of a million other factors?

I just don't see any compelling evidence that shows that increased use of corn for motor CAUSES increased costs for food.  Good theory, but that's it.

https://www.macrotrends.net/2532/corn-prices-historical-chart-data
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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2018, 12:55:07 am »
Eat your pudding.  Or you can't have your meat.  Or how did it go?  Think Pink
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Offline thackney

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2018, 11:27:17 am »
Quote from: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on July 26, 2018, 12:52:50 am
You are correct.  My memory was in error.  I went back to the data, and it turns out that what I was referring to was not the first year of the mandate, but the several year period in the early 80's when ethanol usage went up about by about 40x and the price of corn dropped by around 60%.

However, I think my basic point still holds.  People state (as fact) that putting corn into our gas tanks causes the price of corn to rise, and therefore drives up the price of other foods.  That's a reasonable economic theory.  But, looking at the data, I don't see any compelling argument.  The price of corn is generally higher today than it was pre-mandate, but then it also jumped up a lot more in the early 70's, which probably had nothing to do with ethanol usage.  If ethanol is driving the price of corn higher, what then explains the 50% price drops from 1984-86 (I got a 70mpg moped in 84 and then my first 8mpg gas guzzler in 86?), 1996-1998 (I got a real job in 96, moved out of IA and started driving vehicles that didn't suck?), 2008-2009 (guessing housing bust, not my bad), and 2012-14 (no clue on this one, not even a smart ask quip)?

Could it be that corn prices are higher today due to ethanol usage?  Sure.  Could it be higher demand from China and India (etc)?  Yeah, that too.   Any of a million other factors?

I just don't see any compelling evidence that shows that increased use of corn for motor CAUSES increased costs for food.  Good theory, but that's it.

https://www.macrotrends.net/2532/corn-prices-historical-chart-data

A lot more impacts than just ethanol.  Because of the amount we export, the value of the dollar also makes a big impact.

https://www.agriculture.com/markets/analysis/corn/why-todays-prices-arent-a-repeat-of_9-ar51783

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Offline thackney

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2018, 11:36:52 am »
Quote from: thackney on July 26, 2018, 11:27:17 am
A lot more impacts than just ethanol.  Because of the amount we export, the value of the dollar also makes a big impact.

https://www.agriculture.com/markets/analysis/corn/why-todays-prices-arent-a-repeat-of_9-ar51783

For reference of the size of the ethanol impact on the corn market:

@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer



https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/83512/fds-17e.pdf?v=42867
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Offline edpc

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Re: 2.5 Billion Pounds of Meat Piles Up in U.S. as Production Grows, Exports Slow
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2018, 01:56:15 pm »
Juncker is putting it all in his carry-on.  They're going to have a giant barbecue in Brussels.
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