Author Topic: The good populism  (Read 1035 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
The good populism
« on: July 12, 2018, 02:57:23 am »
The good populism by Victor Davis Hanson

   
June 2018


Populism is today seen both as a pejorative and positive noun. In fact, in the present age, there are two sorts of populism. Both strains originated in classical times and persisted in the West until today.


One in antiquity was known as the base populism. It involved the unfettered urban “mob,” or what the Athenians disapprovingly dubbed the ochlos and the Romans disparagingly called the turba. Such popular movements were spearheaded by the so-called demagogoi (“leaders of the people”) or in Roman times the more radical popular tribunes.

These were largely urban movements. Protesters focused on the redistribution of property, radical democratization, taxes on the wealthy, the cancellation of debts, vast increases in public entitlements, and civic employment. The French Revolution and European upheavals of 1848 reflect some of the same themes. Today, Occupy Wall Street, Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and the Bernie Sanders phenomenon all stand in the same current. Often, urban intellectuals, aristocrats, and elites—from the patrician Roman Republican street agitator Publius Clodius Pulcher and the Jacobin Maximilien Robespierre, to present-day billionaires like George Soros and Tom Steyer—have sought to assist the urban protesters. Perhaps these gentleman- agitators thought they could offer money, prestige, or greater wisdom, thereby channeling and elevating shared populist agendas. The antithesis to such radical populism was likely thought by ancient conservative historians to be the “good” populism of the past—and what the contemporary media might call the “bad” populism of the present: the push-back of small property owners and the middle classes against the power of oppressive government, steep taxation, and internationalism, coupled with unhappiness over imperialism and foreign wars and a preference for liberty rather than mandated equality. Think of the second century B.C. Gracchi brothers rather than Juvenal’s “bread-and-circuses” imperial Roman underclass, the American rather than the French Revolution, or the Tea Party versus Occupy Wall Street. The mesoi, or “middle guys,” both predated and remained somewhat at odds with contemporary radical Athenian democracy. Yet these agrarian property-owning classes were also originally responsible for the Greek city-state and thus for Western civilization itself.

The Jeffersonian idea of preserving ownership of a family plot, and passing on farms through codified inheritance laws and property rights, were the themes of the constitutions of the early polis. The citizen—neither a peasant nor a subject—remained rooted to a particular plot of ground, and thereby enjoyed the tripartite rights of citizenship: military service, voting rights in the assembly, and the ability to be self-supporting and autonomous. The mesoi, then, lent stability to otherwise often volatile consensual politics. Edmund Burke is often referenced as the archetypical sober and judicious conservative. Despite the difficulty of finding a systematic political orthodoxy in Burke’s vast body of largely forensic speeches and pamphlets, we are told that Burke serves as a model of modern conservatism in our own uncertain age. Burke, of course, saw through the French Revolution, while earlier having appreciated elements of the American cause. It is also understandable that Burke can be sourced to refute the current dangerous relativism of the radical Left, while defending classical liberalismfrom the excesses of populist nationalists and mindless mobs on the right.
But Burke often emphasized the stability of the property-owning middle classes and their custodianship of custom and tradition: the “unchanging constancy” that Burke argued ensures that “in what we improve we are never wholly new; in what we retain we are never wholly obsolete.” An ample property-owning class serves as a bulwark against confiscatory anarchy and revolutionary nihilism, as well as the excesses of monarchial and aristocratic insider and client autocracy. Likewise, that keen observer of early-nineteenth-century Americanism, the French nobleman Alexis de Tocqueville, in his Democracy in America, saw America’s unique strength in the populist influence of a nation of small agrarians. Such property owners were suspicious of both hereditary aristocracy and monarchy, and yet were economically autonomous enough to resist radical calls for government-enforced equality.Yet somehow the contemporary conservative movement and the Republican Party have confused a traditionally destabilizing populism with the ancient restorative populism, or clumsily feared both equally.Obviously, we are no longer, as was true at our founding, a nation largely composed of yeomen farmers. But in modern terms, the ownership of a house, a business, or perhaps even a retirement savings plan is the equivalent of Burke’s stewardship of property and tradition. Ancient American ideas like the right to bear arms and an end to inheritance taxes still reflect Tocqueville’s interest in maintaining the viability of a large middle class suspicious of both rich and poor. But in our modern context, the trajectory of contemporary Republicanism has been largely to downplay culture, especially the effects of globalization and de-industrialization on traditional small communities of property-owning citizens. That neglect led to startling political repercussions in 2016.
Illegal immigration and open borders were accepted as an unpreventable—or even an almost natural occurrence, with largely positive results for both the Left and Right. In collective fashion liberals championed the poor arriving on their own terms from Central America and Mexico in expectation of their permanent political support. They sought and received the changing of the Electoral College demography of the American Southwest. Many Republicans, foolishly, either wished for cheap labor or deluded themselves into thinking that amnestied impoverished illegal immigrants would soon vote for family-values conservatives. Neither party worried much about the insidious destruction of immigration law, much less how federal laws that were otherwise applicable to most Americans could be arbitrarily ignored by a select few or how wages of entry-level workers were driven down by imported labor. Few conservatives raised the objection that mass influxes of illegal aliens, mostly non-diverse, poorly educated, and without skills, were difficult enough to assimilate quickly under the old culture of the melting pot, but even more so now, given the current paradigm of the tribal salad bowl.

snip




https://www.newcriterion.com/issues/2018/6/the-good-populism-9842
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 0
Re: The good populism
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 03:21:38 am »
I really do hope President Robespierre is successful at destroying the GOPe, before the masses turn on him and his sycophants. 
It is likely the purge of the alt-right and their families during the backlash will be lamentable yet sickeningly satisfying.

Offline Frank Cannon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,097
  • Gender: Male
Re: The good populism
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 03:32:17 am »
I really do hope President Robespierre is successful at destroying the GOPe, before the masses turn on him and his sycophants. 
It is likely the purge of the alt-right and their families during the backlash will be lamentable yet sickeningly satisfying.

Now on is turning on Donny. He has your pals in the Rockefeller wing by the balls. Just ask Charlie Dent and Jeff Flake.

Online kevindavis007

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,418
  • Gender: Male
Re: The good populism
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 12:21:10 pm »
Populism is not a conservative value....
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/

Online kevindavis007

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,418
  • Gender: Male
Re: The good populism
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 12:23:52 pm »
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: The good populism
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 03:03:02 pm »
Populism Is Not Conservatism -- Rush Limbaugh 2008
https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2008/01/04/populism_is_not_conservatism2/


That was then, BEFORE Trump.  When principles supposedly mattered.

Now that there is Trump - Populism is A-OTAY Panky according to Limbaugh and the other talking heads, along with the bulk of the Republican "It's-okay-when-OUR-GUY-does-it!" crowd.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online kevindavis007

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,418
  • Gender: Male
Re: The good populism
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 09:42:01 pm »
That was then, BEFORE Trump.  When principles supposedly mattered.

Now that there is Trump - Populism is A-OTAY Panky according to Limbaugh and the other talking heads, along with the bulk of the Republican "It's-okay-when-OUR-GUY-does-it!" crowd.


That is true..
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/

Offline EasyAce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,385
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Blue, 2012-2020---my big, gentle friend.
Re: The good populism
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2018, 02:13:18 am »
Populism is described fairly, thanks to William Jennings Bryan, as seeing what "the people" want and therefore wanting what "the people" want, while agreeing to learn the details of what "the people" want later. Which may explain something of why Mr. Bryan ran for president thrice, lost big enough thrice, and was reduced to making a monkey out of himself in Tennessee.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 02:14:19 am by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 0
Re: The good populism
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2018, 03:20:52 am »
Now on is turning on Donny. He has your pals in the Rockefeller wing by the balls. Just ask Charlie Dent and Jeff Flake.

Flake is getting out.  He is leaving you with the blame.

Offline Frank Cannon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,097
  • Gender: Male
Re: The good populism
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2018, 03:26:43 am »
Flake is getting out.  He is leaving you with the blame.

Flake is running away like the limp wrested fairy with frosted highlights he is because his own state hates him. I guess you missed the part where his approvals have been under water for 2 or 3 years because he lied about everything he campaigned on when he ran for that seat.

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: The good populism
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2018, 03:28:53 am »
With minority unemployment at all time lows or near all time lows, one has to commend Trump on his caring for all Americans.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 0
Re: The good populism
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2018, 03:44:40 am »
Flake is running away like the limp wrested fairy with frosted highlights he is because his own state hates him. I guess you missed the part where his approvals have been under water for 2 or 3 years because he lied about everything he campaigned on when he ran for that seat.
Approvals underwater for two years?  He and Trump have a lot in common.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: The good populism
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2018, 03:51:46 am »
With minority unemployment at all time lows or near all time lows, one has to commend Trump on his caring for all Americans.

Oh yes.... Dear Leader Cares...

Sometimes it really is like reading what the propagandists on NORK radio have to say about their divine ruler.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Frank Cannon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,097
  • Gender: Male
Re: The good populism
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2018, 03:53:14 am »
Approvals underwater for two years?  He and Trump have a lot in common.

LOL. Yeah. Show me all the mega stadium rallies that are being held for Flake. Hell, most of his party hates him because he is a spineless freak. That is why is relegated to showing his stupidity on low rated MSNBC.

Take note of the date of this piece. Donny was still doing the Apprentice when your fairy friend was being called the biggest loser in the Senate....

How Jeff Flake Became the Most Unpopular Senator in America

Alexander Abad-Santos
Apr 29, 2013


Quote
It wasn't easy dethroning Mitch McConnell as America's least favorite Senator, but Jeff Flake has done that in just three short months, a new poll out Monday reveals — and his fall from rising-star grace is not quite the head-scratcher you might think. In November, Flake won his Arizona Senate seat by almost 5 percentage points, but it was a lot closer than "the double-digit lead he held earlier in the year," ABC News reported at the time. Flake, a popular six-time Congressman who won previous elections with as much as 74 percent of the vote, strode into the seat of former Minority Whip Jon Kyl as a face of turnaround for the state and the Republican party. But, oh, how the mighty can fall in a time of guns, immigration, and constant polling.
The Numbers

Public Policy Polling, in their latest survey on the fallout of the recent vote on gun legislation, explains just how much people don't like Mr. Flake:

    Just 32% of voters approve of him to 51% who disapprove and that -19 net approval rating makes him the most unpopular sitting Senator we've polled on, taking that label from Mitch McConnell.

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: The good populism
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2018, 10:13:58 am »
That was then, BEFORE Trump.  When principles supposedly mattered.

Now that there is Trump - Populism is A-OTAY Panky according to Limbaugh and the other talking heads, along with the bulk of the Republican "It's-okay-when-OUR-GUY-does-it!" crowd.

Your values are what you thrown in a trash can when you abandon the unborn.

As usual, your criticism has to do with criticizing voters of a man. Shallow, weak and absolute rubbish.

People exercise their right to a vote,  it is then slandered as a cult in so few words.

Oh, I'm so upset about who voted for Hillary, who voted for Reagan, who voted for Obama. Yeah, criticize voters, that is the ticket. Nonsense.

Such a view benefits liberalism:

Quote
Rush Limbaugh: Elections are the ‘only thing standing’ in the left’s way
Calvin Freiburger

July 12, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) – The king of conservative talk radio delivered a dire warning Wednesday about what he said are the anti-democratic aims of the modern Democratic Party.

“It’s becoming clear to the left that the only thing standing in their way now is elections,” Rush Limbaugh said during his show, WorldNetDaily reports.

“If they can find a way around that, then they don’t need to worry about appealing to people or getting out the vote or coming up with ways to convince people to vote,” he explained. “If you look at the way the radical left is going with this intolerant bullying and intimidation of anybody who disagrees with ’em, and the desire to stop any expression of any alternative view or way of thinking?”

Read more at: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/rush-limbaugh-only-thing-standing-in-lefts-way-now-is-elections

@INVAR
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 10:38:36 am by TomSea »