Author Topic: Separating Children From Parents at Border Is ‘Un-American’ and ‘on All of Us,’  (Read 2756 times)

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Offline dfwgator

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Offline GrouchoTex

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When Radar O'Reilly loses his race to Ted Cruz, that'll be a good day, in my book.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Here's a novel idea...if you don't want to have your kid separated from you...don't enter the country illegally.

Common Sense!

(Nah, it'll never work in D.C.)

Offline txradioguy

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Common Sense!

(Nah, it'll never work in D.C.)

Nope it never will.  Too many pols on both sides of the aisle view the illegals as potential voters.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline WingNot

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When Radar O'Reilly loses his race to Ted Cruz, that'll be a good day, in my book.

That must be like when the German's bombed pearl harbor.
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

Offline GrouchoTex

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That must be like when the German's bombed pearl harbor.

Exactly!

 :beer:

Offline thackney

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If you think wanting to see the actual language in the law that requires these children be separated from their parents is being obtuse, I suppose you're entitled to that opinion.  I call it curious. 

Note:  I’m an actual law and order guy.  I say if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.  If the law requires separation, we should separate and I’m 100% fine with that.  If that’s really the case, if you don’t want to be separated, don’t cross illegally.  Simple.  I’m just trying to understand what the language REALLY is in the Federal statute and to figure out which side is lying because one side has to be.  Either the law requires this separation or it doesn’t.

https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17443198/children-immigrant-families-separated-parents

...there is is a policy that all adults caught crossing into the US illegally are supposed to be criminally prosecuted — and when that happens to a parent, separation is inevitable.

Typically, people apprehended crossing into the US are held in immigration detention and sent before an immigration judge to see if they will be deported as unauthorized immigrants.

But migrants who’ve been referred for criminal prosecution get sent to a federal jail and brought before a federal judge a few weeks later to see if they’ll get prison time. That’s where the separation happens — because you can’t be kept with your children in federal jail....

- - - - - - - - -

The alternatives are not to prosecute for the federal crime and not send them to jail, or to send the children to jail as well.
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Silver Pines

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A noble try at inserting some facts here, Catherine, but this entire farce is way past that already.

@skeeter
@txradioguy

You guys are both right, but it would be nice to see the damn Republicans at least try to push back with some facts.

This thread is full of photos (too many to post here) but take a look at the shelter conditions in 2014 under Obama.



https://twitter.com/brandondarby/status/1008500591914573824

Silver Pines

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Amen .

Also previous administrations are to blame for incentivizing child trafficking by providing “free passes” to adults who try to cross the border with children.

@Wingnut

Yep, exactly.  And it's pissing me off to no end that the only people saying so are on internet forums.  Where's Paul Ryan?

Offline WingNot

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@Wingnut

Yep, exactly.  And it's pissing me off to no end that the only people saying so are on internet forums.  Where's Paul Ryan?
@CatherineofAragon
Last I heard he was looking for a new home outside of Madison...or was it a summer cabin on Lake Wisconsin near Lodi.
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

Offline Concerned

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https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17443198/children-immigrant-families-separated-parents

...there is is a policy that all adults caught crossing into the US illegally are supposed to be criminally prosecuted — and when that happens to a parent, separation is inevitable.

Typically, people apprehended crossing into the US are held in immigration detention and sent before an immigration judge to see if they will be deported as unauthorized immigrants.

But migrants who’ve been referred for criminal prosecution get sent to a federal jail and brought before a federal judge a few weeks later to see if they’ll get prison time. That’s where the separation happens — because you can’t be kept with your children in federal jail....

- - - - - - - - -

The alternatives are not to prosecute for the federal crime and not send them to jail, or to send the children to jail as well.

Thanks.  From your link above:

Quote
President Trump has responded to criticisms of family separation by claiming that a “Democratic law” requires him to do it, and that if Congress doesn’t like it, they can change the law.


"Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
 Separating families at the Border is the fault of bad legislation passed by the Democrats. Border Security laws should be changed but the Dems can’t get their act together! Started the Wall.

7:58 AM - Jun 5, 2018"


This is not true. There is no law that requires immigrant families to be separated. The decision to charge everyone crossing the border with illegal entry — and the decision to charge asylum seekers in criminal court rather than waiting to see if they qualify for asylum — are both decisions the Trump administration has made.

I just wanted to understand where ground truth was.
I adore facts and data and abhor lies and liars.

Silver Pines

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@CatherineofAragon
Last I heard he was looking for a new home outside of Madison...or was it a summer cabin on Lake Wisconsin near Lodi.

@Wingnut

I think he must be headed somewhere, because this chick got out in front of him.  Guess I have to eat my words...

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,320828.0.html

Offline thackney

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Thanks.  From your link above:

I just wanted to understand where ground truth was.

I think the following link provides a good summary and history:

Why Are families Being Separated at the Border? An Explainer
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/why-are-families-being-separated-at-the-border-an-explainer/
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Offline thackney

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Thanks.  From your link above:

Quote
There is no law that requires immigrant families to be separated.

I just wanted to understand where ground truth was.

Note:  That is only the case when you choose not to criminally prosecute those breaking the law.  If you follow the law, charge the adults with the crime, they go to jail.

The point is you can choose NOT to charge the law breakers with a crime.  As is the case with all crime.  Deal making is common in the legal system.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline goatprairie

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Remember, these are the same Dems who have no problem with live or partial-birth abortion. They don't mind one bit infants being ripped out of the womb and their skulls crushed or skewered.
But some migrant kid their parents leave at the border they're sobbing hysterically about.
All a cynical ploy. It's all about the votes as far as they're concerned.

Offline WingNot

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@Wingnut

I think he must be headed somewhere, because this chick got out in front of him.  Guess I have to eat my words...

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,320828.0.html

@CatherineofAragon

If the rumors are true, and he plans to run in 2020, he will not utter/udder (mooo)  a peep on this subject.  He is your perfect liberal milquetoast Wisconson RINO who really should change party affiliation and  run like the cheese eating rat that he is.  .
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

Offline goatprairie

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What kind of parent drags their kids to a foreign country where they know their kids will be separated from them?
:thumbsup:

Offline goatprairie

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@CatherineofAragon

If the rumors are true, and he plans to run in 2020, he will not utter/udder (mooo)  a peep on this subject.  He is your perfect liberal milquetoast Wisconson RINO who really should change party affiliation and  run like the cheese eating rat that he is.  .
"the cheese eating rat that he is."

As a loyal Wisconsinite I resent your inference that I eat a lot of cheese.   9999hair out0000 Besides, we're badgers, not rats.

Well......there are some rats here. But I haven't dived on the floor for a piece of cheese in at least a week.   Okay........so it was a few days ago.  .

Offline WingNot

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I come from a long line of Green County cheesemakers.  I have limburger running thu my viens.  :beer:
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

Offline Concerned

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I think the following link provides a good summary and history:

Why Are families Being Separated at the Border? An Explainer
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/why-are-families-being-separated-at-the-border-an-explainer/

@thackney

Thanks again.  So my read of the above link is that the primary difference here is that the Trump Administration is using their prosecutorial discretion to criminally charge the parents rather than using civil immigration detention and removal, which would allow families to stay together.  Again, I'm fine with criminally charging them and separating the families, I just wish the Administration would own that change in policy. 

Thanks again.  Very helpful. 

 :thumbsup:
I adore facts and data and abhor lies and liars.

Offline thackney

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@thackney

Thanks again.  So my read of the above link is that the primary difference here is that the Trump Administration is using their prosecutorial discretion to criminally charge the parents rather than using civil immigration detention and removal, which would allow families to stay together.  Again, I'm fine with criminally charging them and separating the families, I just wish the Administration would own that change in policy. 

Thanks again.  Very helpful. 

 :thumbsup:

Agreed on all points.  Past administrations have done the same, but to a lesser degree, such as those re-entering after past deportation.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Silver Pines

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@CatherineofAragon

If the rumors are true, and he plans to run in 2020, he will not utter/udder (mooo)  a peep on this subject.  He is your perfect liberal milquetoast Wisconson RINO who really should change party affiliation and  run like the cheese eating rat that he is.  .

@Wingnut

Lol, yeah, if he speaks up, I'll pass out from shock.

Offline Jazzhead

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The law (actually, I understand it is a decades-old court settlement) says migrant minors cannot be jailed.   That, of course, causes a practical problem - the adult caregiver couldn't be jailed without separating the child.  So, until recently, families crossing the border seeking asylum were typically released together into the U.S. pending a hearing on their asylum claim.

Now the Trump administration has a "zero-tolerance" policy that indeed incarcerates the adults - and, by operation of law, causes the kids to be separated.  So this is a change in enforcement, not a change in the law - although the law's restrictions were probably the main reason previous administrations didn't jail adults as frequently as the Trump administration does. 

The Dems, of course, would much rather seize on the optics of the situation for political purposes than change the law and permit parent and child to be confined together.   I suppose one solution might be to give arriving families a choice - waive their right to an asylum hearing in exchange for a plane ticket back home,  or move forward with the asylum claim with the knowledge that parent and child will be separated until the claim can be heard.

Or change the law.   But that's the last thing the Dems want.     
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Offline skeeter

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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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I come from a long line of Green County cheesemakers.  I have limburger running thu my viens.  :beer:

Blessed are the cheesemakers!