Author Topic: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD  (Read 34627 times)

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Offline dfwgator

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #150 on: June 12, 2018, 02:26:32 pm »
Part of the deal should be getting back the USS Pueblo.

The Norks have been using it as a museum to humiliate us.   

Offline Restored

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #151 on: June 12, 2018, 02:29:32 pm »
Obama was worried about the political ramifications of smacking that tarbaby. North Korea was contained so why even bring it up?
Trump obviously isn't a politician. His tweets make that obvious. Kim was ready to come into the 21st century and Trump was going to make it happen.
But this whole thing has the markings of Xi Jinping. He and Trump must have worked something out. North Korea calms down. The rest of Asia calms down. China keeps building up its military while everyone else happily makes shoes and toys.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #152 on: June 12, 2018, 02:29:50 pm »
So, what concrete verifiable steps did NK agree to take toward permanent denuclearization?  What time frame did they agree to?  What penalties did they agree to if they fail to carry through on concrete verifiable terms?

Very likely, none.  Nor was that anything that could possibly be accomplished during a personal meeting between Trump and Un.

First step is to get the leaders together to get an agreement in principle.  That's been accomplished.

Second step is to have underlings start hashing out the details you just mentioned.  So that's the next step.  Obviously, if that doesn't happen, then the first step is for naught.  But expecting something this huge to basically start with the second step is a (deliberately?) unrealistic expectation of the critics.


Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #153 on: June 12, 2018, 02:29:56 pm »
/snicker

Fancy German vocab wont save you.

Save me? I'm not the one circling the drain on this thread trying to convince people that the Trump/Rocket Man meeting wasn't a big effing deal.

Offline Restored

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #154 on: June 12, 2018, 02:31:08 pm »
Part of the deal should be getting back the USS Pueblo.

The Norks have been using it as a museum to humiliate us.

If we ask for it back, it proves they were right that we are humiliated. If you watch some videos from people touring the North, almost all never heard of the Pueblo until they went to it.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #155 on: June 12, 2018, 02:31:40 pm »
Trump decided that you can't negotiate unless you talk.  Obama apparently was given the asinine advice that playing the stern, silent father type was the way to proceed.  That is a negotiating strategy that has failed magnificently for decades.

It was no small matter to have gained Dennis Rodman and Kanye West (among others) to the president’s side bringing prospects of narrowing the black/white divide in American politics. An event that, in my opinion, could never have happened under any other of the republican presidential candidates Trump beat for the nomination.

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #156 on: June 12, 2018, 02:33:28 pm »
The North has to drop their nuclear program. It represents a threat to China. They have no choice. Plus I believe they did it as a proxy for Iran.
The North needs food. If we can get North Koreans eating again, Kim can take credit for it. In return, everyone in that region quits worrying about North Korea and they may see some investment.

???

NK's nuclear program represents ZERO risk to  China.

In face, President Trump convinced them that being under the Chinese Nuclear Umbrella will be much better for the long term prospects for NK and its development, than continuing to pursue nukes themselves.

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Offline thackney

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #157 on: June 12, 2018, 02:34:21 pm »
Line item 3, is more than a simple sentence.

Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

- - - - - -

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-northkorea-southkorea-summit-statemen/panmunjom-declaration-for-peace-prosperity-and-unification-of-the-korean-peninsula-idUKKBN1HY193

During this momentous period of historical transformation on the Korean Peninsula, reflecting the enduring aspiration of the Korean people for peace, prosperity and unification, President Moon Jae-in of the Republic of Korea and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea held an Inter-Korean Summit Meeting at the ‘Peace House’ at Panmunjom on April 27, 2018.

The two leaders solemnly declared before the 80 million Korean people and the whole world that there will be no more war on the Korean Peninsula and thus a new era of peace has begun.

The two leaders, sharing the firm commitment to bring a swift a swift end to the Cold War relic of longstanding division and confrontation, to boldly approach a new era of national reconciliation, peace and prosperity, and to improve and cultivate inter-Korean relations in a more active manner, declared at this historic site of Panmunjom as follows:

1. South and North Korea will reconnect the blood relations of the people and bring forward the future of co-prosperity and unification led by Koreans by facilitating comprehensive and groundbreaking advancement in inter-Korean relations. Improving and cultivating inter-Korean relations is the prevalent desire of the whole nation and the urgent calling of the times that cannot be held back any further.

1) South and North Korea affirmed the principle of determining the destiny of the Korean nation on their own accord and agreed to bring forth the watershed moment for the improvement of inter-Korean relations by fully implementing all existing agreements and declarations adopted between the two sides thus far.

2) South and North Korea agreed to hold dialogue and negotiations in various fields including at high level, and to take active measures for the implementation of the agreements reached at the Summit.

3) South and North Korea agreed to establish a joint liaison office with resident representatives of both sides in the Gaeseong region in order to facilitate close consultation between the authorities as well as smooth exchanges and cooperation between the peoples.

4) South and North Korea agreed to encourage more active cooperation, exchanges, visits and contacts at all levels in order to rejuvenate the sense of national reconciliation and unity. Between South and North, the two sides will encourage the atmosphere of amity and cooperation by actively staging various joint events on the dates that hold special meaning for both South and North Korea, such as June 15, in which participants from all levels, including central and local governments, parliaments, political parties, and civil organizations, will be involved. On the international front, the two sides agreed to demonstrate their collective wisdom, talents, and solidarity by jointly participating in international sports events such as the 2018 Asian Games.

5) South and North Korea agreed to endeavour to swiftly resolve the humanitarian issues that resulted from the division of the nation, and to convene the Inter-Korean Red Cross Meeting to discuss and solve various issues including the reunion of separated families. In this vein, South and North Korea agreed to proceed with reunion programs for the separated families on the occasion of the National Liberation Day of August 15 this year.

6) South and North Korea agreed to actively implement the projects previously agreed in the 2007 October 4 Declaration, in order to promote balanced economic growth and co-prosperity of the nation. As a first step, the two sides agreed to adopt practical steps towards the connection and modernization of the railways and roads on the eastern transportation corridor as well as between Seoul and Sinuiju for their utilization.

2. South and North Korea will make joint efforts to alleviate the acute military tension and practically eliminate the danger of war on the Korean Peninsula.

1) South and North Korea agreed to completely cease all hostile acts against each other in every domain, including land, air and sea, that are the source of military tension and conflict. In this vein, the two sides agreed to transform the demilitarized zone into a peace zone in a genuine sense by ceasing as of May 2 this year all hostile acts and eliminating their means, including broadcasting through loudspeakers and distribution of leaflets, in the areas along the Military Demarcation Line.

2) South and North Korea agreed to devise a practical scheme to turn the areas around the Northern Limit Line in the West Sea into a maritime peace zone in order to prevent accidental military clashes and guarantee safe fishing activities.

3) South and North Korea agreed to take various military measures to ensure active mutual cooperation, exchanges, visits and contacts. The two sides agreed to hold frequent meetings between military authorities, including the defence Ministers Meeting, in order to immediately discuss and solve military issues that arise between them. In this regard, the two sides agreed to first convene military talks at the rank of general in May.

3. South and North Korea will actively cooperate to establish a permanent and solid peace regime on the Korean Peninsula. Bringing an end to the current unnatural state of armistice and establishing a robust peace regime on the Korean Peninsula is a historical mission that must not be delayed any further.

1) South and North Korea reaffirmed the Non-Aggression Agreement that precludes the use of force in any form against each other, and agreed to strictly adhere to this Agreement.

2) South and North Korea agreed to carry out disarmament in a phased manner, as military tension is alleviated and substantial progress is made in military confidence-building.

3) During this year that marks the 65th anniversary of the Armistice, South and North Korea agreed to actively pursue trilateral meetings involving the two Koreas and the United States, or quadrilateral meetings involving the two Koreas, the United States and China with a view to declaring an end to the war and establishing a permanent and solid peace regime.

4) South and North Korea confirmed the common goal of realizing, through complete denuclearisation, a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula. South and North Korea shared the view that the measures being initiated by North Korea are very meaningful and crucial for the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula and agreed to carry out their respective roles and responsibilities in this regard. South and North Korea agreed to actively seek the support and cooperation of the international community for the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula.

The two leaders agreed, through regular meetings and direct telephone conversations, to hold frequent and candid discussions on issues vital to the nation, to strengthen mutual trust and to jointly endeavour to strengthen the positive momentum towards continuous advancement of inter-Korean relations as well as peace, prosperity and unification of the Korean Peninsula.

In this context, President Moon Jae-in agreed to visit Pyongyang this fall.

April 27, 2018

Done in Panmunjom

Moon Jae-in

President

Republic of Korea

Kim Jong Un

Chairman

State Affairs Commission

Democratic People’s

Republic of Korea

- - - - - - - - - -

https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/file/resources/collections/peace_agreements/n_skorea10042007.pdf

Declaration on the Advancement of South-North Korean Relations, Peace and Prosperity

October 4, 2007

In accordance with the agreement between President Roh Moo-hyun of the Republic of Korea and
Chairman Kim Jong Il of the National Defense Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of
Korea, President Roh visited Pyongyang from October 2-4, 2007.

During the visit, there were historic meetings and discussions.

At the meetings and talks, the two sides have reaffirmed the spirit of the June 15 Joint Declaration
and had frank discussions on various issues related to realizing the advancement of South-North
relations, peace on the Korean Peninsula, common prosperity of the Korean people and unification
of Korea.

Expressing confidence that they can forge a new era of national prosperity and unification on their
own initiative if they combine their will and capabilities, the two sides declare as follows, in order to
expand and advance South-North relations based on the June 15 Joint Declaration:

1. The South and the North shall uphold and endeavor actively to realize the June 15
Declaration.

The South and the North have agreed to resolve the issue of unification on their own
initiative and according to the spirit of "by-the-Korean-people-themselves."

The South and the North will work out ways to commemorate the June 15 anniversary of the
announcement of the South-North Joint Declaration to reflect the common will to faithfully
carry it out.

2. The South and the North have agreed to firmly transform inter-Korean relations into ties of
mutual respect and trust, transcending the differences in ideology and systems.

The South and the North have agreed not to interfere in the internal affairs of the other and
agreed to resolve inter-Korean issues in the spirit of reconciliation, cooperation and
reunification.
The South and the North have agreed to overhaul their respective legislative and institutional
apparatuses in a bid to develop inter-Korean relations in a reunification-oriented direction.

The South and the North have agreed to proactively pursue dialogue and contacts in various
areas, including the legislatures of the two Koreas,in order to resolve matters concerning the
expansion and advancement of inter-Korean relations in a way that meets the aspirations of
the entire Korean people.

3. The South and the North have agreed to closely work together to put an end to military
hostilities, mitigate tensions and guarantee peace on the Korean Peninsula.

The South and the North have agreed not to antagonize each other, reduce military tension,
and resolve issues in dispute through dialogue and negotiation.

The South and the North have agreed to oppose war on the Korean Peninsula and to adhere
strictly to their obligation to nonaggression.

The South and the North have agreed to hold talks between the South’s Minister of Defense
and the North’s Minister of the People’s Armed Forces in Pyongyang in November to discuss
ways of designating a joint fishing area in the West Sea to avoid accidental clashes and
turning it into a peace area and also to discuss measures to build military confidence,
including security guarantees for various cooperative projects.

4. The South and the North both recognize the need to end the current armistice regime and
build a permanent peace regime. The South and the North have also agreed to work together
to advance the matter of having the leaders of the three or four parties directly concerned to
convene on the Peninsula and declare an end to the war.

With regard to the nuclear issue on the Korean Peninsula, the South and the North have
agreed to work together to implement smoothly the September 19, 2005 Joint Statement and
the February 13, 2007 Agreement achieved at the Six-Party Talks.

5. The South and the North have agreed to facilitate, expand, and further develop inter-Korean
economic cooperation projects on a continual basis for balanced economic development and
co-prosperity on the Korean Peninsula in accordance with the principles of common
interests, co-prosperity and mutual aid.

The South and the North reached an agreement on promoting economic cooperation,
including investments, pushing forward with the building of infrastructure and the
development of natural resources. Given the special nature of inter-Korean cooperative
projects, the South and the North have agreed to grant preferential conditions and benefits to
those projects.

The South and the North have agreed to create a “special peace and cooperation zone in the
West Sea” encompassing Haeju and vicinity in a bid to proactively push ahead with the
creation of a joint fishing zone and maritime peace zone, establishment of a special economic
zone, utilization of Haeju harbor, passage of civilian vessels via direct routes in Haeju and
the joint use of the Han River estuary.

The South and the North have agreed to complete the first-phase construction of the
Gaeseong Industrial Complex at an early date and embark on the second-stage development
project. The South and the North have agreed to open freight rail services between Munsan
and Bongdong and promptly complete various institutional measures, including those related
to passage, communication, and customs clearance procedures.

The South and the North have agreed to discuss repairs of the Gaeseong-Sinuiju railroad and
the Gaeseong-Pyongyang expressway for their joint use.

The South and the North have agreed to establish cooperative complexes for shipbuilding in
Anbyeon and Nampo, while continuing cooperative projects in various areas such as
agriculture, health and medical services and environmental protection.

The South and the North have agreed to upgrade the status of the existing Inter-Korean
Economic Cooperation Promotion Committee to a Joint Committee for Inter-Korean
Economic Cooperation to be headed by deputy prime minister-level officials.

6. The South and the North have agreed to boost exchanges and cooperation in the social areas
covering history, language, education, science and technology, culture and arts, and sports to
highlight the long history and excellent culture of the Korean people.

The South and the North have agreed to carry out tours to Mt. Baekdu and open nonstop
flight services between Seoul and Mt. Baekdu for this purpose.

The South and the North have agreed to send a joint cheering squad from both sides to the
2008 Beijing Olympic Games. The squad will use the Gyeongui Railway Line for the firstever
joint Olympic cheering.

7. The South and the North have agreed to actively promote humanitarian cooperation projects.
The South and the North have agreed to expand reunion of separated family members and
their relatives and promote exchanges of video messages.

To this end, the South and the North have agreed to station resident representatives from each
side at the reunion center at Mt. Geumgang when it is completed and regularize reunions of
separated family members and their relatives.

The South and the North have agreed to actively cooperate in case of emergencies, including
natural disasters, according to the principles of fraternal love, humanitarianism and mutual
assistance.

8. The South and the North have agreed to increase cooperation to promote the interests of the
Korean people and the rights and interests of overseas Koreans on the international stage.

9. The South and the North have agreed to hold inter-Korean prime ministers’ talks for the
implementation of this Declaration and have agreed to hold the first round of meetings in
November 2007 in Seoul.

10. The South and the North have agreed that their highest authorities will meet frequently for
the advancement of relations between the two sides.

Oct. 4, 2007
Pyongyang

Roh Moo-hyun
President
Republic of Korea

Kim Jong Il
Chairman, National Defense Commission
Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #158 on: June 12, 2018, 02:34:46 pm »
It's historic even if we get nothing because we already have nothing. If Kim gets some gravitas, it means nothing to us. If Trump goes in and builds 10 casinos, it's better than what we have now. There is no "lose" in this situation. Everyone but Putin wants this. Win-win.

This is absolute, 100% correct.  The hand-wringing over "optics" and "propaganda victories" is ridiculous.  Who freaking cares?  If NK fails to follow through, nobody is going to think this "propaganda victory" is worth a bucket of warm spit, because we'll be right back to where we were when military action seemed quite possible.


Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #159 on: June 12, 2018, 02:35:27 pm »
Part of the deal should be getting back the USS Pueblo.

The Norks have been using it as a museum to humiliate us.

Yeah, because no enemies we normalized relations with does that.....

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2015/09/24/remnants-of-the-vietnam-war-wrecks-captured-aircraft/3

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #160 on: June 12, 2018, 02:36:12 pm »

How about they give up their nuclear program and we don't throw our Allies (South Korea and Japan) under the bus.

Do you realize that South Korea wanted this meeting to happen very, very badly?

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #161 on: June 12, 2018, 02:37:08 pm »
Very likely, none.  Nor was that anything that could possibly be accomplished during a personal meeting between Trump and Un.

First step is to get the leaders together to get an agreement in principle.  That's been accomplished.

Second step is to have underlings start hashing out the details you just mentioned.  So that's the next step.  Obviously, if that doesn't happen, then the first step is for naught.  But expecting something this huge to basically start with the second step is a (deliberately?) unrealistic expectation of the critics.


Agreed.   The first step is just that - a first step.   But the genie's out of the bottle.    Every North Korean citizen will see the photo of Kim and Trump, and read the Joint Statement.   
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Offline edpc

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #162 on: June 12, 2018, 02:38:14 pm »
They’ll never acknowledge that Donald Trump built his career on his negotiation skills.


Probably because his legendary skills fit the original definition of factoid.

fac·toid (făk′toid)

1. A piece of unverified or inaccurate information that is presented in the press as factual, often as part of a publicity effort, and that is then accepted as true because of frequent repetition.


Trump Says He’s a Great Negotiator, But The Evidence Says Otherwise

It’s easy to identify examples that belie Trump’s claim that he is an excellent deal-maker. The airline he bought in 1988 for roughly $365 million closed down in 1992. The football team he bought in 1984 ended with the demise of United States Football League just two years later. His hotels and casinos have struggled to make money, declaring bankruptcy four times. Ironically, even Trump’s version of how skillfully he renegotiated loan terms with his bankers after going bankrupt has been debunked by those who were at the table.

http://fortune.com/2016/07/19/donald-trump-negotiating-the-art-of-the-deal/
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #163 on: June 12, 2018, 02:38:27 pm »
Sorry, but Trump-worship is just as offensive as Obama-worship, it not moreso given how so many Trumpalos knocked liberals for worshipping Obama.  I object to the worship.

@Oceander
The only worship around here is coming from you NTs
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #164 on: June 12, 2018, 02:40:51 pm »
If we ask for it back, it proves they were right that we are humiliated. If you watch some videos from people touring the North, almost all never heard of the Pueblo until they went to it.

Not all that many here have heard of it.

I heard about it a lot when I started school in the Air Force.  Since the one guy killed had the same job as I was training into.
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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #165 on: June 12, 2018, 02:43:09 pm »
Enough already with the NT's and ET's crap...this thread is about the Summit.
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #166 on: June 12, 2018, 02:43:54 pm »
Enough already with the NT's and ET's crap...this thread is about the Summit.

Oh, you're no fun, anymore.

Offline Concerned

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #167 on: June 12, 2018, 02:50:05 pm »

Probably because his legendary skills fit the original definition of factoid.

fac·toid (făk′toid)

1. A piece of unverified or inaccurate information that is presented in the press as factual, often as part of a publicity effort, and that is then accepted as true because of frequent repetition.


Trump Says He’s a Great Negotiator, But The Evidence Says Otherwise

It’s easy to identify examples that belie Trump’s claim that he is an excellent deal-maker. The airline he bought in 1988 for roughly $365 million closed down in 1992. The football team he bought in 1984 ended with the demise of United States Football League just two years later. His hotels and casinos have struggled to make money, declaring bankruptcy four times. Ironically, even Trump’s version of how skillfully he renegotiated loan terms with his bankers after going bankrupt has been debunked by those who were at the table.

http://fortune.com/2016/07/19/donald-trump-negotiating-the-art-of-the-deal/

Trump's supposedly legendary deal-making/negotiating skills are being exposed as completely bogus.  Since becoming President, there just hasn't been a plethora of great deals.  No Mexico paying for the wall.  No "repeal and replace".  Now North Korea gets something they valued:  meeting with a US President and got the US to suspend "provocative" "war games".  The "great deal-maker" in Singapore sure appears to have been Kim when it comes to concrete, actionable achievements coming out of the summit. 

« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 02:51:38 pm by Concerned »
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Offline aligncare

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #168 on: June 12, 2018, 02:55:03 pm »

Probably because his legendary skills fit the original definition of factoid.

fac·toid (făk′toid)

1. A piece of unverified or inaccurate information that is presented in the press as factual, often as part of a publicity effort, and that is then accepted as true because of frequent repetition.


Trump Says He’s a Great Negotiator, But The Evidence Says Otherwise

It’s easy to identify examples that belie Trump’s claim that he is an excellent deal-maker. The airline he bought in 1988 for roughly $365 million closed down in 1992. The football team he bought in 1984 ended with the demise of United States Football League just two years later. His hotels and casinos have struggled to make money, declaring bankruptcy four times. Ironically, even Trump’s version of how skillfully he renegotiated loan terms with his bankers after going bankrupt has been debunked by those who were at the table.

http://fortune.com/2016/07/19/donald-trump-negotiating-the-art-of-the-deal/

Like I said some folks will never acknowledge Donald Trump is rather talented, rising to the top in real estate, on television, and now in politics. They’ll never accept that Trump made those thing happen, in three different fields in one lifetime, through talent and skill, not luck.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #169 on: June 12, 2018, 03:01:57 pm »
Like I said some folks will never acknowledge Donald Trump is rather talented, rising to the top in real estate, on television, and now in politics. They’ll never accept that Trump made those thing happen, in three different fields in one lifetime, through talent and skill, not luck.

@aligncare
He's got the DNC back on their heels not knowing what to do or say and he's got the best shot at peace in nearly 70 years.

Maybe he's not a good negotiator but he's a heck of a lot better then Bush, Clinton, or Obama.
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Offline Concerned

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #170 on: June 12, 2018, 03:03:49 pm »
Like I said some folks will never acknowledge Donald Trump is rather talented, rising to the top in real estate, on television, and now in politics. They’ll never accept that Trump made those thing happen, in three different fields in one lifetime, through talent and skill, not luck.

I consider Trump to be an absolute master at promoting and marketing.  Whether it was his real estate, his TV program, or his Presidency, he’s masterful at promoting and marketing, especially himself IMO.  When it comes to deal-making though, I just haven’t seen a huge number of great deals that he's brokered since he took over as President.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #171 on: June 12, 2018, 03:10:24 pm »
I consider Trump to be an absolute master at promoting and marketing.  Whether it was his real estate, his TV program, or his Presidency, he’s masterful at promoting and marketing, especially himself IMO.  When it comes to deal-making though, I just haven’t seen a huge number of great deals that he's brokered since he took over as President.

He cut a deal with Congressional Republicans to enact the most sweeping, positive reform of corporate/business taxes ever.  That, alone, is a bigger positive "deal" than anything that has been done since Reagan.

You criticized his failure to make a deal on repealing ObamaCare, etc..  But here's the thing -- not even the greatest dealmaker in the world can bring two sides together if there actually is no solution that both see as better than the status quo.  Some deals just can't be made.

What a great dealmaker can do is bring together parties where there actually is middle ground acceptable to both, but they just haven't been able to get to that point.  The reforms to corporate taxes is a perfect example of that.  For decades, there has been a general acknowledgement that our nominal corporate tax rates were too high, and had too many exceptions.  But despite that acknowledgement -- even Obama agreed they needed reformed -- nobody could cobble together an agreement.  Trump did.  Because for all his foibles, when he sees a deal that is possible, he grabs it like a dog with a bone, and pursues it single-mindedly.

As someone who negotiates professionally for a living, it is very clear to me that Trump understands making deals much, much better than his political predecessors.  For them, it is always about the "optics" and the perceptions in the 24 hour news cycles.  He doesn't care about that.  He just cares about getting the deal done, and screw convention, protocol, and "the way things have always been done."  He's got a bucketload of flaws, but as a businessman, he does understand that dealmaking is about the end result, not the process.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 03:17:54 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline aligncare

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #172 on: June 12, 2018, 03:14:58 pm »
@aligncare
He's got the DNC back on their heels not knowing what to do or say and he's got the best shot at peace in nearly 70 years.

Maybe he's not a good negotiator but he's a heck of a lot better then Bush, Clinton, or Obama.

What his detractors steadfastly refuse to understand is that every top executive had failures on their way to the top. You think Steve Jobs was always Steve Jobs!, the guy who got fired from his own company only to come back stronger, buy back his company and make it the Apple it is today.

The difference in a Steve Jobs and a Donald Trump is they never let the setbacks stop them. That’s true of every successful CEO.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 03:27:34 pm by aligncare »

Offline Concerned

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #173 on: June 12, 2018, 03:15:17 pm »
He cut a deal with Congressional Republicans to enact the most sweeping, positive reform of corporate/business taxes ever.  That, alone, is a bigger positive "deal" than anything that has been done since Reagan.

That's one.  Do you really think any other Republican President couldn't have gotten tax cuts from a Republican House and a Republican Senate?  Of course, there's been plenty of other deals to be had:  "repeal and replace", Mexico paying for the wall, DACA, "irreversible" and "verifiable" denuclearization by North Korea.  Unfortunately, it sure appears to me that in this summit, Kim got more than he gave up.
I adore facts and data and abhor lies and liars.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #174 on: June 12, 2018, 03:21:11 pm »
That's one.  Do you really think any other Republican President couldn't have gotten tax cuts from a Republican House and a Republican Senate?

Bush had control of both houses of Congress for six years, and didn't make any significant changes to corporate taxes.  Trump did it in his very first year in office.