Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'

[mystery-ak]

Trump: 'I have the absolute right to pardon myself'
Kevin Breuninger   | @KevinWilliamB
Published 23 Mins Ago Updated 4 Mins Ago

President Donald Trump said Monday morning that he has "the absolute right" to pardon himself — but added that he has "done nothing wrong."

Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump

As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to PARDON myself, but why would I do that when I have done nothing wrong? In the meantime, the never ending Witch Hunt, led by 13 very Angry and Conflicted Democrats (& others) continues into the mid-terms!
7:35 AM - Jun 4, 2018

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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/04/trump-i-have-the-absolute-right-to-pardon-myself.html

[montanajoe]

Hmmm...

I guess Obama had the same right...as well as the next Dim POTUS...

[Just_Victor]

Hmmm...

I guess Obama had the same right...as well as the next Dim POTUS...

It would be interesting to see how it played out before the SCOTUS.  Almost guaranteed to end up there.

But in pardoning himself he would be admitting guilt.

[edpc]

It would be interesting to see how it played out before the SCOTUS.  Almost guaranteed to end up there.

But in pardoning himself he would be admitting guilt.

Not necessarily, since a person could always be convicted for something they didn’t do.  It does mean he couldn’t plead the 5th on any questions about the matter afterwards, but could still be found guilty in any potential perjury from statements.

[ABX]

Interesting flashback from the Bill Clinton era.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/1998/12/can_president_clinton_pardon_himself.html

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

 

Then why have any laws or restrictions against the President whatsoever?

I'm regretting my vote again. I want to like this guy too.

[ABX]

Another interesting flashback. From the Justice Department to Richard Nixon, 1974, letting him know he can't pardon himself.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/olc/opinions/1974/08/31/op-olc-supp-v001-p0370_0.pdf

Long document but here is a snip:

....1. Pursuant to Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution, the “Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment,” is vested in the President. This raises the question whether the President can pardon himself. Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, it would seem that the question should be answered in the negative.

2. The necessity doctrine would not appear applicable here. That doctrine deals with the situation in which the sole or all judges or officials who have jurisdiction to decide a case are disqualified because they belong to a class of persons who have some interest in the outcome of the litigation, thus depriving the citizen of a forum to have his case decided. In that situation the disqualification rule is frequently relaxed to avoid a denial of justice. Evans v. Gore, 253 U.S. 245, 247– 48 (1920);** Tumey v. Ohio, 273 U.S. 510, 522 (1927). It is, however, extremely questionable whether that doctrine is pertinent where the deciding official himself would be directly and exclusively affected by his official act. See Tumey, 273 U.S. at 523.......

[edpc]

Then why have any laws or restrictions against the President whatsoever?

The pardon could not prevent Congress from impeaching and removing him for the action, it just means he couldn’t be criminally prosecuted afterwards.  You can believe, however, that action would lead to a case before SCOTUS.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Truth is, the "I can pardon myself" argument is something of a tempest in a teapot.  The people who dislike Trump are hyping it as "yet another example" of how horrible he is.  The reality is that it is being argued primarily as part of a legal argument as to why he doesn't have to respond to a subpoena from Mueller.  And on that, I agree -- I don't think he has to appear, nor should he.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

The pardon could not prevent Congress from impeaching and removing him for the action, it just means he couldn’t be criminally prosecuted afterwards.  You can believe, however, that action would lead to a case before SCOTUS.

Haha bullshit. Let him try that shit.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Truth is, the "I can pardon myself" argument is something of a tempest in a teapot.  The people who dislike Trump are hyping it as "yet another example" of how horrible he is.  The reality is that it is being argued primarily as part of a legal argument as to why he doesn't have to respond to a subpoena from Mueller.  And on that, I agree -- I don't think he has to appear, nor should he.

 

We'll see. It will come down to whether Congress is willing to impeach the guy. I didn't vote for a dictator, sorry.

[jpsb]

We'll see. It will come down to whether Congress is willing to impeach the guy. I didn't vote for a dictator, sorry.

The Constitution gives the President the power to pardon anyone accused or convicted of a federal
crime. It only places one restriction on the pardon power and that is impeachment. He can not
pardon himself out of being impreached. So yes he can pardon himself if is wants to.

How many divisions does the Supreme Court command?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

We'll see. It will come down to whether Congress is willing to impeach the guy. I didn't vote for a dictator, sorry.

Honestly, what has he done that is dictatorial?  I don't get it.  He's never claimed that Congress doesn't have the power to impeach and remove him from office.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Honestly, what has he done that is dictatorial?  I don't get it.  He's never claimed that Congress doesn't have the power to impeach and remove him from office.

If he's pardoning himself then he's a dictator, period.

[driftdiver]

If he's pardoning himself then he's a dictator, period.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure
No a dictator would just change the law so whatever he wanted to do wasn't a crime.

A dictator wouldn't need a pardon.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

How many divisions does the Supreme Court command?

Trump's military commanders swear to the Constitution, not to Trump.

The country is in a state of economic prosperity... so why is Trump threatening constitutional crisis like this?

[driftdiver]

We'll see. It will come down to whether Congress is willing to impeach the guy. I didn't vote for a dictator, sorry.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure
Impeach for what?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

@Weird Tolkienish Figure
No a dictator would just change the law so whatever he wanted to do wasn't a crime.

A dictator wouldn't need a pardon.

I strongly disagree.

A President who can pardon himself is unconstrained by any laws.

But it doesn't matter what I think does it? Nor does it matter what you think. What matters is what the USSC will say (I suspect they will agree with me).

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

@Weird Tolkienish Figure
Impeach for what?

Well what is he pardoning himself for?

[driftdiver]

Trump's military commanders swear to the Constitution, not to Trump.

The country is in a state of economic prosperity... so why is Trump threatening constitutional crisis like this?

@Weird Tolkienish Figure
Perhaps because they have prep-printed up articles of impeachment and are just searching around for anything to charge him with.

Seems to me the people creating a constitutional crisis are the ones trying to subvert a duly elected President.

[driftdiver]

Well what is he pardoning himself for?

As far as I've heard he's committed no high crime or misdemeanor.

So its anyones guess.

[jpsb]

I strongly disagree.

A President who can pardon himself is unconstrained by any laws.

But it doesn't matter what I think does it? Nor does it matter what you think. What matters is what the USSC will say (I suspect they will agree with me).

The USSC has no say in the matter. Read the Constitution. The President right to pardon is unconstrained except for impeachment. The USSC does not rule the county.

[ABX]

@Weird Tolkienish Figure
No a dictator would just change the law so whatever he wanted to do wasn't a crime.

A dictator wouldn't need a pardon.

Why change the law when with the stroke of a pen, you can make yourself immune from it? A pardon is easier than changing the law. He can write a document in a minute or less and sign it in front of a couple of witnesses and bam, done.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

The USSC has no say in the matter.

 

You may believe that, but in reality they do. I understand Marbury vs. Madison and all that, but the reality is that for 200 years the USSC has been the prime interpreter of the USSC and you can expect Congress to go with their recommendation.

[driftdiver]

Why change the law when with the stroke of a pen, you can make yourself immune from it? A pardon is easier than changing the law. He can write a document in a minute or less and sign it in front of a couple of witnesses and bam, done.

Its a silly argument.   By definition a dictator is the law.  If you're above the law then you don't need a pardon.