This Is Why We Will Never Register Our Guns Or Cooperate With Government Mandates

[txradioguy]

It works in the case of automobile registration.  Almost all transfers of ownership, and dispositions, are documented.

What difference is one new law or regulation going to do to stop illegal gun violence that the other 16,000 haven't?

[driftdiver]

INVAR conveniently left out a link in his opening post.   But if the authorities seized both Mr. Kirschenmann's legal firearms as well as the illegal ones, then I agree an injustice was done, and quite possibly an unconstitutional infringement.  But wait until the case plays out before jumping to the absurd conclusion that registration amounts to confiscation.   This is America, where the rule of law means something.

@Jazzhead
How does registration reduce crime?   You've said it lets the govt track firearms.   How does that reduce crime?   Because an owner would be less likely to let their property be stolen?   Like gun owners line up for that.

No you want to punish the law abiding and the victims while ignoring the criminal.

[driftdiver]

What difference is one new law or regulation going to do to stop illegal gun violence that the other 16,000 haven't?

@txradioguy
The right person just hasn't been in charge of those laws.  yeah thats the answer

[thackney]

INVAR conveniently left out a link in his opening post.   But if the authorities seized both Mr. Kirschenmann's legal firearms as well as the illegal ones, then I agree an injustice was done, and quite possibly an unconstitutional infringement.  But wait until the case plays out before jumping to the absurd conclusion that registration amounts to confiscation.   This is America, where the rule of law means something.

Since in every country where that registration was successful done, eventual confiscation of many of the firearms, is certainly reason to expect it once again.

In others like Canada, the government eventually realized registration was a failure itself.

[txradioguy]

@txradioguy
The right person just hasn't been in charge of those laws.  yeah thats the answer

@driftdiver that always seems to be the Liberal answer to why failed programs implemented by other leftist regimes will work this time.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead
How does registration reduce crime?   You've said it lets the govt track firearms.   How does that reduce crime?   Because an owner would be less likely to let their property be stolen?   Like gun owners line up for that.

No you want to punish the law abiding and the victims while ignoring the criminal.

Does registration "punish" the law-abiding car owner?   It's an imposition, an inconvenience, but not a punishment, and certainly not an unconstitutional "infringement".

C'mon, sir, the community does have an interest in curbing the black market in guns.   

[thackney]

INVAR conveniently left out a link in his opening post.

The title was a hot link in his post.  It does not show it has been modified.

The text include information of the confiscation.  How is he part of your refusal to answer until asked several times?

[thackney]

C'mon, sir, the community does have an interest in curbing the black market in guns.

Registration would grow the black market in guns.  I believe many of the posters on this thread would move to illegal trade if registration was required.

[Jazzhead]

Since in every country where that registration was successful done, eventual confiscation of many of the firearms, is certainly reason to expect it once again.

In others like Canada, the government eventually realized registration was a failure itself.

America is not "every other country".  We have a Constitution with a Second Amendment and a guarantee against seizure of property without just compensation, or the due process of law.

The answer cannot be that you have the "right" to decide for yourself which laws you will ignore.  That is anarchy.   

[Cyber Liberty]

Does registration "punish" the law-abiding car owner?   It's an imposition, an inconvenience, but not a punishment, and certainly not an unconstitutional "infringement".

C'mon, sir, the community does have an interest in curbing the black market in guns.

The auto registration canard always comes out eventually, even though it's been proven many times it's not analogous.  My question about auto registration is:  Has that prevented one theft of an auto?

[Jazzhead]

Registration would grow the black market in guns.  I believe many of the posters on this thread would move to illegal trade if registration was required.

That's a rather startling admission that folks here are not fundamentally law-abiding.

I don't believe it.   

[driftdiver]

Does registration work?

Gun laws in Brazil. In Brazil, all firearms are required to be registered with the minimum age for gun ownership being 25. It is generally illegal to carry a gun outside a residence, and a special permit granting the right to do so is granted to certain groups, such as law enforcement officers.

According to most sources, Brazil possesses high rates of violent crimes, such as murders and robberies; depending on the source (UNDP or World Health Organization), Brazil's homicide rate is 20-30 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants according to the UNODC, placing Brazil in the top 20 countries by intentional homicide   (source wiki) 

They had nearly 60,000 murders in Brazil last year.

America has about 5,500 firearm murders.

Then there's Chicago, Baltimore, DC, California.  All lead the US in murders but also strictly control firearms.

It sorta worked in England and Australia, in the sense it reduced gun crime.   However, other forms of violent crime went up by over 80%

[driftdiver]

That's a rather startling admission that folks here are not fundamentally law-abiding.

I don't believe it.   

@Jazzhead
Believe it.

An armed populace is essential to freedom.  If your govt doesn't trust its citizens to be armed then you should fear that govt.

[thackney]

America is not "every other country".  We have a Constitution with a Second Amendment and a guarantee against seizure of property without just compensation, or the due process of law.

And over and over and over, we see that guarantee broken.  No way I'll ever agree to expand that power for the government in firearms.

The answer cannot be that you have the "right" to decide for yourself which laws you will ignore.  That is anarchy.

Consent of the governed.  It is clear to me (but I understand not you) that this topic would never receive consent for a very large portion of the governed.

And anarchy is not the only other option.  Isn't it clear to you yet the population has greatly pushed back on gun control laws even BEFORE the laws are cast.  That is part of legal political process.

[Oceander]

So much guff and bravado.  All of which will evaporate like the morning dew if registration ever becomes law. 

[driftdiver]

America is not "every other country".  We have a Constitution with a Second Amendment and a guarantee against seizure of property without just compensation, or the due process of law.

The answer cannot be that you have the "right" to decide for yourself which laws you will ignore.  That is anarchy.   

@Jazzhead
So its ok to confiscate them as long as a law is passed and people are paid a pittance for their property.

Once again you reveal yourself and your agenda.

BTW, every single day you decide which laws you are going to abide by.  Every single day, every single one of us goes through that same process.

[skeeter]

America is not "every other country".  We have a Constitution with a Second Amendment and a guarantee against seizure of property without just compensation, or the due process of law.

The answer cannot be that you have the "right" to decide for yourself which laws you will ignore.  That is anarchy.   

http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapons/news/2018/05/04/congressman-calls-for-confiscation-of-assault-weapons.aspx

[thackney]

That's a rather startling admission that folks here are not fundamentally law-abiding.

I don't believe it.   

Yeah, the folks that pushed Prohibition thought that crap too.

We are fundamentally law-abiding.  That is why we take larger risks get carry permits and the like.  But there is a limit to how much we will accept.  It is foolish to ignore history and believe otherwise.

[driftdiver]

So much guff and bravado.  All of which will evaporate like the morning dew if registration ever becomes law.

@Oceander
I would invite you to personally start the process.

[Oceander]

@Oceander
I would invite you to personally start the process.

/snicker

Guff and bravado.  Tell me, did you refuse to buy Obamacare-compliant insurance, and did you pay the Obamacare penalty, or did you dutifully sign up for qualifying insurance?

[thackney]

So much guff and bravado.  All of which will evaporate like the morning dew if registration ever becomes law.

So how do explain the wide-spread failures of existing gun registration laws in California and New York?

It is ignorant to claim those isolated situations that won't be repeated by more freedom cherishing states.

[catfish1957]

When you see liberal areas like California and New York with significant non-compliance, how do you think it will be received in Texas and Kentucky?

You have your opinion.  But you continue to ignore the original topic of the thread.  It most certainly limits gun ownership and leads to confiscation.

Here in Texas if there ever was a federal mandate on registration, I think you would see a universal "blissful ignoring" all the way from legislators to local law enforcement.  Jaywalking would see more enforcing.

[skeeter]

So much guff and bravado.  All of which will evaporate like the morning dew if registration ever becomes law.

My state will require registration of a certain popular firearm beginning next month. So we'll soon see how accurate your forecast is, at least among the Californian members here.

I'm thinking the Oracle of Delphi has nothing to worry about.

[Oceander]

So how do explain the wide-spread failures of existing gun registration laws in California and New York?

It is ignorant to claim those isolated situations that won't be repeated by more freedom cherishing states.

Failure in what way?  That people have not registered?  Have lawbreakers been caught and prosecuted?  Then the law is working as intended. 

I simply doubt that most of the cockerels here have the courage of their own words. 

[thackney]

/snicker

Guff and bravado.  Tell me, did you refuse to buy Obamacare-compliant insurance, and did you pay the Obamacare penalty, or did you dutifully sign up for qualifying insurance?

Strawman.  Most of the population already had insurance before the Obamacare rules.  Most adults understand the need for insurance.