This Is Why We Will Never Register Our Guns Or Cooperate With Government Mandates

[Jazzhead]

Does Occupy, BLM, or Antifa have the right to be a law unto itself?   I've never seen you speak out against them.

Consider it done.  Occupy, BLM and Antifa don't have the right to be laws unto themselves.  And neither do you.   

You've never "seen me speak out against them" because, as far as I can recall, no members here have defended or asserted Occupy's, BLM's or Antifa's "right" to ignore the law.   But the theme of this entire selfish thread is F*ck-the-Community - even to the point of threatening bloodshed.   

[thackney]

That's preposterous. Prohibition banned the sale of alcohol.  Firearms registration doesn't affect your ability to own a gun - only that you take responsibility for it.

When you see liberal areas like California and New York with significant non-compliance, how do you think it will be received in Texas and Kentucky?

You have your opinion.  But you continue to ignore the original topic of the thread.  It most certainly limits gun ownership and leads to confiscation.

[driftdiver]

That's preposterous.  Prohibition banned the sale of alcohol.  Firearms registration doesn't affect your ability to own a gun - only that you take responsibility for it.

@Jazzhead
Now you know thats just a false argument.  Each and everyone of us is already responsible if we misuse a firearm, knife, pillow, car, or our own hands. 

What you want is to make it more difficult for people to own a firearm.  Which is where the phrase 'shall not infringe' comes into play.

[driftdiver]

Consider it done.  Occupy, BLM and Antifa don't have the right to be laws unto themselves.  And neither do you.   

You've never "seen me speak out against them" because, as far as I can recall, no members here have defended or asserted Occupy's, BLM's or Antifa's "right" to ignore the law.   But the theme of this entire selfish thread is F*ck-the-Community - even to the point of threatening bloodshed.   

@Jazzhead
Of course I don't until the government makes an unjust law.   

You still have never addressed the question of how your proposed changes would make the world safer.   We have a multitude of real world examples where the very changes you propose result in more crime, more deaths and a less safe world.

[txradioguy]

@Jazzhead
Of course I don't until the government makes an unjust law.   

You still have never addressed the question of how your proposed changes would make the world safer.   We have a multitude of real world examples where the very changes you propose result in more crime, more deaths and a less safe world.

@driftdiver good luck on getting a straight answer out of him.  I've asked numerous times how one more gun law on the books in addition to the 16K already in place would change things...and I've gotten nothing that remotely resembles a straight answer.

[driftdiver]

@driftdiver good luck on getting a straight answer out of him.  I've asked numerous times how one more gun law on the books in addition to the 16K already in place would change things...and I've gotten nothing that remotely resembles a straight answer.

@txradioguy
Yeah I know, but I like to keep putting it out there for the lurkers.

[txradioguy]

@txradioguy
Yeah I know, but I like to keep putting it out there for the lurkers.

LOL! Same here 

[Jazzhead]

What you want is to make it more difficult for people to own a firearm.  Which is where the phrase 'shall not infringe' comes into play.

Wrong.  Infringement means the law denies you the right.   Such as D.C.'s law (addressed in Heller) effectively banning handgun ownership that stripped ordinary citizens of their right to defend their homes.   Reasonable regulation - even regulation that may inconvenience you - is perfectly legal, as has been found in case after case, including Heller itself.

Registration does not make it more difficult for you to own a firearm,  it is merely a device for identifying that you are the person who has legal responsibility for it.   Does registration deny you the ability to own a car?  Of course not.  The argument is absurd.   

[driftdiver]

Wrong.  Infringement means the law denies you the right.   Such as D.C.'s law (addressed in Heller) effectively banning handgun ownership that stripped ordinary citizens of their right to defend their homes.   Reasonable regulation - even regulation that may inconvenience you - is perfectly legal, as has been found in case after case, including Heller itself.

Registration does not make it more difficult for you to own a firearm,  it is merely a device for identifying that you are the person who has legal responsibility for it.   Does registration deny you the ability to own a car?  Of course not.  The argument is absurd.

@Jazzhead
uh nope, you lefties argue that requiring a govt issued ID in order to vote is an infringement.   Using that yard stick we shouldn't even have to show a drivers license let alone succumb to a background check to purchase a firearm.

Again, how would registration accomplish whatever goal you have in mind.   Please provide an example of where registration has accomplished said goal.

[Jazzhead]

@driftdiver good luck on getting a straight answer out of him.  I've asked numerous times how one more gun law on the books in addition to the 16K already in place would change things...and I've gotten nothing that remotely resembles a straight answer.

I've been responsive time and again.  You just won't accept my answer, and rather than address the substance you just claim I've been non-responsive.

Registration is a device for assigning a firearm to the person who is legally responsible for it, and for establishing the basis for documented transfers and dispositions.   If your firearm is registered to you,  you will be deterred from selling it off the back of a truck.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead
uh nope, you lefties argue that requiring a govt issued ID in order to vote is an infringement.   

Liar.  I have always supported the requirement of an ID to vote.  It is in no way an infringement of the right to vote. 

[driftdiver]

I've been responsive time and again.  You just won't accept my answer, and rather than address the substance you just claim I've been non-responsive.

Registration is a device for assigning a firearm to the person who is legally responsible for it, and for establishing the basis for documented transfers and dispositions.   If your firearm is registered to you,  you will be deterred from selling it off the back of a truck.

@Jazzhead
Except that doesn't work, or at least it hasn't in the dozens of places its been tried.

Regardless you are punishing law abiding citizens and infringing on their rights.   INFRINGE  learn it.

[RoosGirl]

Wrong.  Infringement means the law denies you the right.   Such as D.C.'s law (addressed in Heller) effectively banning handgun ownership that stripped ordinary citizens of their right to defend their homes.   Reasonable regulation - even regulation that may inconvenience you - is perfectly legal, as has been found in case after case, including Heller itself.

Registration does not make it more difficult for you to own a firearm,  it is merely a device for identifying that you are the person who has legal responsibility for it.   Does registration deny you the ability to own a car?  Of course not.  The argument is absurd.

Does registration of a car keep people from using a car in a manner that they shouldn't?  Does it keep the car in safe working order?  Does it keep people from stealing the car?  If I let someone borrow my car and they used the car to run over someone would I be responsible for that death?  No. No. No. No.  Registration allows the county to tax the use of my car to pay for road maintenance.

[thackney]

...Registration does not make it more difficult for you to own a firearm,  it is merely a device for identifying that you are the person who has legal responsibility for it.   Does registration deny you the ability to own a car?  Of course not.  The argument is absurd.

Really?  Try telling that to Jeffrey Scott Kirschenmann.  The guy who tried to follow California's screwed up laws and ended up having ALL his weapons seized.  You know, the original topic of the thread you keep ignoring.

[RoosGirl]

PS Registration of my car does not deter me from selling it off the back of a truck to some guy whose had his license taken for DUI and isn't supposed to be driving.

[txradioguy]

I've been responsive time and again.  You just won't accept my answer, and rather than address the substance you just claim I've been non-responsive.

Registration is a device for assigning a firearm to the person who is legally responsible for it, and for establishing the basis for documented transfers and dispositions.   If your firearm is registered to you,  you will be deterred from selling it off the back of a truck.

No you haven't been responsive.  You've obfuscated...you've offered straw man arguments as a reply.

It's a very simple question to answer.  Here I'll offer it again.


The U.S. at all levels of government has approximately 16,000 laws regarding the regulation and use of guns on the books as of today.

What difference is one new law or regulation going to do to stop illegal gun violence that the other 16,000 haven't?

[thackney]

PS Registration of my car does not deter me from selling it off the back of a truck to some guy whose had his license taken for DUI and isn't supposed to be driving.

And he doesn't have to register it, unless he drives it on the public roads.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead
Except that doesn't work, or at least it hasn't in the dozens of places its been tried.

It works in the case of automobile registration.  Almost all transfers of ownership, and dispositions, are documented. 

[Jazzhead]

PS Registration of my car does not deter me from selling it off the back of a truck to some guy whose had his license taken for DUI and isn't supposed to be driving.

Yes, it does.  Such transactions are very uncommon.  That's because a car that is registered to you remains your legal responsibility.  Documenting the transfer relieves you of that responsibility.   Registration has been very effective in curbing the black market.   

[thackney]

It works in the case of automobile registration.  Almost all transfers of ownership, and dispositions, are documented.

Apples and oranges.  Most vehicles are on a public street every week.  Most firearms spend most of the year in storage.

[thackney]

...Registration has been very effective in curbing the black market.

Oh yeah, almost no cars or trucks ever get stolen...

In the United States, a car is stolen every 45 seconds. California has consistently led the United States in motor vehicle thefts, both in total vehicles stolen and thefts per capita.

https://pocketfinder.myshopify.com/blogs/news/how-many-cars-are-stolen-each-year

[driftdiver]

It works in the case of automobile registration.  Almost all transfers of ownership, and dispositions, are documented.

@Jazzhead

How does it work to reduce crime? 

Ask the 24 year old mother here in Tampa who was run over while pushing her baby across the street.   Two young guys were street racing.  Both driving properly registered cars.

But you've let on what your real goal is.  Documentation.   Yep, govt control and future confiscation.

[driftdiver]

Oh yeah, almost no cars or trucks ever get stolen...

In the United States, a car is stolen every 45 seconds. California has consistently led the United States in motor vehicle thefts, both in total vehicles stolen and thefts per capita.

https://pocketfinder.myshopify.com/blogs/news/how-many-cars-are-stolen-each-year

@thackney
To be fair most of those cars stolen in CA end up in Mexico.    In the case of Firearms the federal govt does it themselves.

[Jazzhead]

Really?  Try telling that to Jeffrey Scott Kirschenmann.  The guy who tried to follow California's screwed up laws and ended up having ALL his weapons seized.  You know, the original topic of the thread you keep ignoring.

INVAR conveniently left out a link in his opening post.   But if the authorities seized both Mr. Kirschenmann's legal firearms as well as the illegal ones, then I agree an injustice was done, and quite possibly an unconstitutional infringement.  But wait until the case plays out before jumping to the absurd conclusion that registration amounts to confiscation.   This is America, where the rule of law means something.   

[skeeter]

It works in the case of automobile registration.  Almost all transfers of ownership, and dispositions, are documented.

Does car registration save lives?