Author Topic: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School  (Read 18969 times)

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #275 on: May 22, 2018, 03:47:15 pm »
The following is posted at the barn where my kids rodeo coach teaches:



It is an important lesson that too many kids don't know how to accept criticism and failure.  They have to learn to take that in, then move forward in a positive manner.  It isn't automatic but a learned response.  It doesn't have to be sports but something they have to work to succeed is a life lesson everyone needs.

 

@thackney

An important point I think that is too often overlooked is that if you don't learn what you are NOT good at as a kid,how the HELL will you ever come to understand what you might be good at doing so you can plan for a career in a field where you can do well?

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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #276 on: May 22, 2018, 03:57:56 pm »
What's different is that every time something like this happens,  we get wall-to-wall 24/7 news coverage.  In the past, the news usually didn't make it past the local market, and we didn't hear about it.
Do you really expect these things to get brushed under the rug, though? Nobody wants this happening to our children. To an extent, we have to get the word out that there is evil in this world and try to discover the triggers that cause it, so that they might be prevented in the future.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #277 on: May 22, 2018, 04:53:33 pm »
Violent video games played 10 hours per day?   No corporal punishment in schools?

Please leave "our Maker" out of this one.    :whistle:
The intermediary means of grievance settling have been taken out of play. It's either namby pamby words or the nuclear option. A simple punch in the mouth, a fat lip, a bloody nose settled many such conflicts before they developed into some wide eyed psycho looking for a body count. Even if the fight was lost, respect, for standing up for yourself was gained. Now, the participants get expelled, and the only social dominance sorted out is that the school rules all. That doesn't settle pack issues among the kids. While going to a counselor and yakking it up about feelings may work for some, even that must be approached with care or the kid gets a load of dreck in their jacket and no satisfaction.
When the playground was a little more primal, there were means to release pressure, to blow off steam, even if it was just tackling someone hard playing tag or nailing them with a dodge ball.
Now, the pressure builds and some, inevitably, will crack.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline INVAR

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #278 on: May 22, 2018, 05:11:03 pm »
Please leave "our Maker" out of this one.   

Leaving "Our Maker" out, is precisely how and why we have ended up here as a society to begin with.

Get used to more and worse as time goes by.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #279 on: May 22, 2018, 05:15:12 pm »
@mountaineer
Kids today aren't any different then kids from 20, 30, or 50 years ago.   They are just as confused, awkward and prone to making stupid decisions as those way back when before the wheel was invented.

Whats different is families are weaker, morals are weaker, and kids (boys especially) aren't allowed to blow off steam.  So they bottle it up until they break.

heck when I was in high school there was almost a school shooting.  Only stopped by a girl who talked the guy out of it.
The same basic issues apply: status, girls/boys, social jockeying for the top of that heap, or at least being accepted by a group of peers. Hard to be moral when the popular "music" can be measured in f-bombs per minute, when the parents are home watching what would have been considered porn 40 years ago in prime time, and that 'ends justify the means' situational ethics has become the dominant theme.
Moral kids have an easier go if their parents are moral, but that is no guarantee.

As for consequences, every high school yearbook had at least one memorial page for some kid who had been killed doing something stupid or by someone who was. By graduation, between 5% and 10% of the class were volunteer firemen (myself included) so we saw first hand the effects of bad decisions.

Somewhere in the quest for little boys who would sit with their knees together, legs crossed at the ankles, hands folded in their laps (like little girls were supposed to), we've had to deal with the highly probable overmedication of a couple generations for ADD and ADHD, disciplinary constraints and 'talk about it' counselors instead of getting the matter settled, once and for all, as young men (and boys) have settled such matters for millennia. I'm not saying violence is always the answer, but there are times when limited violent acts instill the following: That actions (even words) have consequences. That pain can be the result. That standing up for what is right, even if painful, even if you lose the fight, is still the right thing and a source of satisfaction in itself. That going along to get along is not the best philosophy if the going along is with something wrong.
I have, in my school days, lost the fight but won the war. That happens. I have won my share, too, and the idea that the strong can stand up for the weak, can face down the bullies for those who can't so much fight their own fights is seen in every comic book, but not in our schools (unless the 'strong' is on staff.
We deprive our children from acting heroically, from fighting the good fight against aggressors and tormentors, we stop them from keeping their self-respect, and from defending the weak, things some guys instinctively do.

How can that possibly have a good outcome?

At some point, even without psychological problems, the pressure of constant derision, of rejection, of the inability to even try to establish status in the pack will make the kid go rogue and turn on the whole structure.

Just watch dogs, they are more human than humans sometimes.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #280 on: May 22, 2018, 05:52:49 pm »
I noticed that as soon as this shooter's name was revealed, some commenters (NOT HERE!) began speculating about where he came from.  Was his name Muslim?  Etc., etc., etc.  More than one person commented that "he didn't sound like he came from here."

His family is first generation immigrant.  His mother is very religious; both parents seem very "traditional". 

Santa Fe is a very conservative town, almost entirely white. 

Santa Fe population: 18,000   Greek: .52%. It appears his family was the only Greek family in the town.

Galveston population: 59,000    Greek: .38%. Still a pretty small group of people.  There are two Orthodox churches in Galveston, one Greek and one Serbian.  Here's a list of Orthodox churches in the Houston area.

I can imagine this kid stuck out like a sore thumb for many reasons.  For some of his peers, the name would have sounded foreign.  His church was different from theirs.  In fact, I can think of a zillion ways to turn "Pa-GOR-cheese" into a nasty nickname.  He was involved in Greek dancing -- I can imagine some kids saying, "How gay!"  His parents' expectations of teen culture and behavioral norms were probably a bit skewed from those of his peers. 
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #281 on: May 22, 2018, 05:55:19 pm »
I noticed that as soon as this shooter's name was revealed, some commenters (NOT HERE!) began speculating about where he came from.  Was his name Muslim?  Etc., etc., etc.  More than one person commented that "he didn't sound like he came from here."

His family is first generation immigrant.  His mother is very religious; both parents seem very "traditional". 

Santa Fe is a very conservative town, almost entirely white. 

Santa Fe population: 18,000   Greek: .52%. It appears his family was the only Greek family in the town.

Galveston population: 59,000    Greek: .38%. Still a pretty small group of people.  There are two Orthodox churches in Galveston, one Greek and one Serbian.  Here's a list of Orthodox churches in the Houston area.

I can imagine this kid stuck out like a sore thumb for many reasons.  For some of his peers, the name would have sounded foreign.  His church was different from theirs.  In fact, I can think of a zillion ways to turn "Pa-GOR-cheese" into a nasty nickname.  He was involved in Greek dancing -- I can imagine some kids saying, "How gay!"  His parents' expectations of teen culture and behavioral norms were probably a bit skewed from those of his peers.
Funny thing about emphasizing 'diversity' is that it often diminishes the things we all have in common.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline thackney

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #282 on: May 22, 2018, 06:02:51 pm »
Santa Fe population: 18,000   Greek: .52%. It appears his family was the only Greek family in the town.

Do you think there are 93 people in his family?

Quote
I can imagine this kid stuck out like a sore thumb for many reasons.

No, I don't agree.



I live about 20 miles away.  Aside from the trenchcoat he usually wore, what I've read about him and was described by others says he wouldn't stand out at all.



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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #283 on: May 22, 2018, 06:08:33 pm »
The intermediary means of grievance settling have been taken out of play. It's either namby pamby words or the nuclear option. A simple punch in the mouth, a fat lip, a bloody nose settled many such conflicts before they developed into some wide eyed psycho looking for a body count. Even if the fight was lost, respect, for standing up for yourself was gained. Now, the participants get expelled, and the only social dominance sorted out is that the school rules all. That doesn't settle pack issues among the kids. While going to a counselor and yakking it up about feelings may work for some, even that must be approached with care or the kid gets a load of dreck in their jacket and no satisfaction.
When the playground was a little more primal, there were means to release pressure, to blow off steam, even if it was just tackling someone hard playing tag or nailing them with a dodge ball.
Now, the pressure builds and some, inevitably, will crack.

Interesting take, @Smokin Joe !

Eliminating 'Dodge Ball' during recess is the culprit!    :laugh:
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #284 on: May 22, 2018, 06:15:38 pm »
Interesting take, @Smokin Joe !

Eliminating 'Dodge Ball' during recess is the culprit!    :laugh:
We called it "murder ball". There were some impressive arms in our class. But it was a means to take out aggressions in a limited fashion, and to target specific individuals in doing so. More subtle and less certain than a poke in the snout, but gratifying, nonetheless.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #285 on: May 22, 2018, 06:15:41 pm »
Do you think there are 93 people in his family?

No, I don't agree.



I live about 20 miles away.  Aside from the trenchcoat he usually wore, what I've read about him and was described by others says he wouldn't stand out at all.

@thackney Thank you for responding!  I was hoping you all in the area would have more info -- All I have is internet research ;).  You're right about the numbers; I accidentally added a 0 ;(.

I'm really glad I'm wrong -- I was so shocked to see people really focused on his name and ethnicity.  So his family's culture wouldn't have been considered unusual? 
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

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Online mountaineer

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #286 on: May 22, 2018, 06:23:26 pm »
What's different is that every time something like this happens,  we get wall-to-wall 24/7 news coverage.  In the past, the news usually didn't make it past the local market, and we didn't hear about it.
That, and today the media act like firearms are some mysterious evil entity, possessed of supernatural powers all by themselves. The mass stabbing a kid carried out at Franklin Regional H.S. near Pittsburgh a few years ago got a tiny fraction of the coverage of the average near-a-school shooting of one or two people.
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Offline thackney

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #287 on: May 22, 2018, 06:31:34 pm »
@thackney Thank you for responding!  I was hoping you all in the area would have more info -- All I have is internet research ;).  You're right about the numbers; I accidentally added a 0 ;(.

I'm really glad I'm wrong -- I was so shocked to see people really focused on his name and ethnicity.  So his family's culture wouldn't have been considered unusual?

@LauraTXNM

This is the greater Houston area, a major international city with nearly every ethnicity around.  So while Santa Fe and my little Rosharon are not urban areas, we are not that far from it.  We do end up interacting with all types in our lives.  It isn't the sheltered area like where I grew up in Rural Ohio.

From what I've read and heard through my kids, it isn't like he went around dancing at weddings all the time breaking plates.  I don't think his "culture" would have been a major identifying aspect.

While a Greek church group isn't going to be as common as the Baptists or even the Methodists or Catholics, they have quite a few in the area.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS751US751&tbm=lcl&ei=a2EEW8nNMMT0swXbj4n4Dg&q=greek+church&oq=greek+church&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i7i30k1j0i20i264k1j0j0i20i264k1j0i7i30k1l6.5883.5883.0.6605.1.1.0.0.0.0.92.92.1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.91....0.Gu_FfnIuaSQ#rlfi=hd:;si:,29.31144994569747,-94.35872138444518;mv:!1m3!1d479237.52379180404!2d-95.14699579183196!3d29.738071482285815!3m2!1i744!2i415!4f13.1
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Online Elderberry

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #288 on: May 22, 2018, 06:44:38 pm »
We called it "murder ball". There were some impressive arms in our class. But it was a means to take out aggressions in a limited fashion, and to target specific individuals in doing so. More subtle and less certain than a poke in the snout, but gratifying, nonetheless.

Dodge Ball was my favorite sport! What was "murder ball" was playing dodge ball with basketballs.

My senior year I would only suit up in gym on rainy days, because we'd play dodge ball. On all other days I'd skip out of class and drive over to the Taco Bell for lunch.
I ended up having to take a gym final to bring up my gym grade so I could graduate.

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #289 on: May 22, 2018, 06:54:07 pm »
Dodge Ball was my favorite sport! What was "murder ball" was playing dodge ball with basketballs.

My senior year I would only suit up in gym on rainy days, because we'd play dodge ball. On all other days I'd skip out of class and drive over to the Taco Bell for lunch.
I ended up having to take a gym final to bring up my gym grade so I could graduate.

@Elderberry Have you tried dodge ball on trampolines?  It's huge out here ;) and so much fun ;)!  The nets help me avoid breaking a hip ;).
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Online mountaineer

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #290 on: May 22, 2018, 07:01:15 pm »
Kids today aren't any different then kids from 20, 30, or 50 years ago.   They are just as confused, awkward and prone to making stupid decisions as those way back when before the wheel was invented.
Maybe, but they sure do seem a lot more convinced of their own significance: WATCH: Five-Year-Old Girl Finds Out She Wasn’t Invited To The Royal Wedding, Bursts Into Tears. 'What, am I not a real princess?' she asks her mom. :silly:
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #291 on: May 23, 2018, 03:48:51 pm »
Violent video games played 10 hours per day?   No corporal punishment in schools?

Please leave "our Maker" out of this one.    :whistle:
you can try to leave him out, but you will fail miserably as that is an unwise decision to make in any case, at any time.

It is wiser to do a 180 degree to your advice and include him even more.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #292 on: May 23, 2018, 06:31:56 pm »
you can try to leave him out, but you will fail miserably as that is an unwise decision to make in any case, at any time.

It is wiser to do a 180 degree to your advice and include him even more.

I only meant it in the context of the post to which I replied.

Have said repeatedly that taking God out of the schools and the public square (war on Christmas), at a young age is necessary to achieve their goal.   That there is only the State.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #293 on: May 24, 2018, 11:43:39 am »
I only meant it in the context of the post to which I replied.

Have said repeatedly that taking God out of the schools and the public square (war on Christmas), at a young age is necessary to achieve their goal.   That there is only the State.

@DCPatriot

Say WHAT? Ever heard of a place named "The Vatican"? They even send Ambassadors all over the world.
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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #294 on: May 24, 2018, 12:14:32 pm »
@DCPatriot

Say WHAT? Ever heard of a place named "The Vatican"? They even send Ambassadors all over the world.

???    @sneakypete

Perhaps you didn't understand my post?    ^-^
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 12:15:06 pm by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #295 on: May 24, 2018, 12:25:16 pm »
Are there members on this thread that believe there's no difference between a 10 year-old child raised on video games such as Teenage Ninja Turtles...than one spending the same hours playing Call of Duty?       :thud:

...garbage in, garbage out.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #296 on: May 24, 2018, 12:37:32 pm »
???    @sneakypete

Perhaps you didn't understand my post?    ^-^

@DCPatriot

The Catholic Church is a government,and the Vatican is their version of a State Department. Church officials  have diplomatic status when they travel,and when they are at their headquarters in every nation. In effect,every Catholic Church is an embassy and Priests have the authority to deny entry to local officials.

There may be other religious sects with these powers,but I am unaware of them.

I KNOW there would be a huge stink if cops or feds raided a US Mosque,but I think that is due to PC nonsense,not legalities.
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Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #297 on: May 24, 2018, 02:12:01 pm »
Leaving "Our Maker" out, is precisely how and why we have ended up here as a society to begin with.

Get used to more and worse as time goes by.

@INVAR

You're 100% correct, of course, but no one seems to want to acknowledge it. This is why we will continue on this path of destruction. I believe the downward spiral will gather speed, and in a few short years, there will be very few things recognizable from the America we once knew. We can get glimpses from old movies, but those will be like life on another planet for upcoming generations.

Praying for revival.  :0001:


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is a government big enough to take away everything you have.


Offline INVAR

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #298 on: May 24, 2018, 03:50:53 pm »
@INVAR

You're 100% correct, of course, but no one seems to want to acknowledge it. This is why we will continue on this path of destruction. I believe the downward spiral will gather speed, and in a few short years, there will be very few things recognizable from the America we once knew. We can get glimpses from old movies, but those will be like life on another planet for upcoming generations.

Praying for revival.  :0001:

When the churches themselves refuse to even discuss the subject of repentance and are embracing things like Chrislam and homosexuality - I am not holding out much hope for 'Revival'.

Besides, it is man's nature to love his own ideas and passions and hate God - especially in institutions of men that claim God for themselves.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School
« Reply #299 on: May 24, 2018, 05:04:46 pm »
???    @sneakypete

Perhaps you didn't understand my post?    ^-^

@DCPatriot

Not only possible,but seems to be likely. So,what were you saying that I misunderstood? Dumb it down a little for me,please.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!