Author Topic: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’  (Read 58252 times)

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Offline INVAR

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #800 on: April 08, 2018, 06:32:54 pm »
I presume...

That's your problem.  You presume.  You already had members who listed places in this country where registration led directly to confiscation - and you ignored them wholesale in order to keep pushing your insipid ideas.

Yes,  guns can be confiscated from someone who is adjudged to be mentally unsound.   But that requires that he receive due process.

I think Trump has stated that they should 'grab the guns now, due process later'. And of course 'due process' is a joke and sickening farce in this country.  Unless you got wads of cash to burn in legal fees and court costs - your chances of getting justice are about the same as a snowflake in a blast furnace.  You have to 'pay' for justice - as we learned firsthand when dealing with a corrupt court and law enforcement system.

The reality of 'due process' in this country today - is that unless you have a SJW jury and you are the right ethnicity - you are guilty of whatever charges are levied until you prove your innocence beyond a reasonable doubt.  And even then, when exonerated and charges dropped, miraculously the charges are still on your record and you have pay more big bucks to supposedly have them stricken from your record.  And yet, it is amazing that even after that - if a cop punches in the info from one or both of my daughters, the charges still show up on his computer in his squad car.

But licensure and registration seems like common sense to me

It will be regarded as confiscation and subjugation to us.  You have to decide if you really want to go there, because the consequences will be very real.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #801 on: April 08, 2018, 06:44:10 pm »
Quote
But licensure and registration seems like common sense to me

And it flies in the face of over 100 years of history showing that one leads to the other. 

I'm sure it was pitched as "common sense" to the people that allowed their weapons to be registered...then confiscated in the a countries (ad two U.S. states so far) where registration led almost immediately to confiscation.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #802 on: April 08, 2018, 06:46:35 pm »
I'm not here to do homework assignments,  SJ.   It is a simple matter to google the number of jurisdictions in America (which cover somewhat less than half of the population) that have some variety of gun registration.  New York requires the registration of handguns, for example.  A number of places have restrictions on certain "assault" weapons,  and have grandfathered in prior owners as documented by registration.    I presume in those jurisdictions registration has not led to confiscation.  If you care to cite exceptions, go ahead.   The rest support my point.

 But we have in this nation a couple of pillars that I choose to rely on before grabbing my AR-15 and threatening to shoot peace officers.    One is the Constitution,  and not just because of the flawed but nevertheless currently-protected status of gun ownership under the 2A.  The other is the rule of law and the right to due process.   Yes,  guns can be confiscated from someone who is, say, adjudged to be mentally unsound.   But that requires that he receive due process.   I applaud the NRA's opposition to laws that might short-circuit due process rights.

But licensure and registration seems like common sense to me,  and I haven't the slightest desire to take your guns away.  I just want you to accept and practice responsibility, just as you do with your car.   

   
Let me put it this way. You made the assertion, this isn't about me assigning something to you, it is about you putting up the information you claim to have for review.

There is a salient and significant difference between that and someone dispatching you to find something you don't claim to know. So, this isn't about homework, it is about proving your point that registration does not lead to confiscation.

In your example, New York, yes, registration has led to confiscation, as cited earlier in this thread by another poster. In another Liberal American bastion, California, registration led to confiscation as well. Even on these shores, confiscation is the outcome (and likely purpose) of registration schemes.  In California, the rifles were registered under the State's registration scheme before it was decided they were no longer legal and had to be confiscated or destroyed (they could not legally be sold out of State, so the owners who had registered their lawful firearms, in good faith, woke up one morning deprived of their property without compensation under color of law).

You have failed to support your statement that there are MANY places which have registration which have not confiscated weapons. Thank you for at least (finally) addressing the issue.

What seems like common sense is often deceptive for those who have incomplete or flawed information.
A study of the matter would indicate that registration is not common sense, but a prelude to confiscation.

We did your homework for you.
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Offline Axeslinger

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #803 on: April 08, 2018, 06:47:56 pm »
If you all agree, I will

Only if we ban @Jazzhead from posting to all 2A threads because he pollutes all of them with the same tired talking points...register and insure...blah, blah, blah. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum

 :chairbang:
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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #804 on: April 08, 2018, 07:06:51 pm »
The other is the rule of law and the right to due process.   Yes,  guns can be confiscated from someone who is, say, adjudged to be mentally unsound.   But that requires that he receive due process.   

I think you and I have different ideas about what constitutes "due process."  The California rule permitting the weapons of Veterans to be seized can be done by a Prosecutor and Judge with the defendant not present to defend himself.  That's not "due process," that's "Star Chamber."

The case of Hawaii, confiscating the guns of people who appear on both Registered Guns and Medical Marijuana lists don't even have a Judge deciding, just bureaucrats.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 07:21:11 pm by Cyber Liberty »
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #805 on: April 08, 2018, 07:15:58 pm »
I think you and I have different ideas about what constitutes "due process."  The California rule permitting the weapons of Veterans to be seized can be done by a Prosecutor and Judge with the defendant not present to defend himself.  That's not "due process," that's "Star Chamber."

So you are saying that you do not trust the government?

Why... that's unAmerican and a profound insult to our magnificent system!
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #806 on: April 08, 2018, 07:20:33 pm »
So you are saying that you do not trust the government?

Why... that's unAmerican and a profound insult to our magnificent system!

Indeed it is, and I will gladly insult it again when I want to.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #807 on: April 08, 2018, 07:24:18 pm »
You just stated the absurdity of gun control.

Assault weapons are indeed those which can used for the assault on people and can take any number of examples, from knives to guns to box cutters to hammers.

To demand one be controlled and not the others is the whole point that is being made in these threads:  it does not work as something else will take its place.

Why are policemen, always allowed to carry gun not more frequently mass-murderers?  Because it is NOT the weapon which causes harm, it is the one carrying it.

You need to change your way of thinking and direct it towards the individual, not an inanimate object.

If you look you’ll see I haven’t taken a position on this gun control debate other than to agree we need to bulletproof the second amendment from people who want to limit it to militias instead of where it belongs, as an individual right to keep and bear arms.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #808 on: April 08, 2018, 07:27:56 pm »
Only if we ban @Jazzhead from posting to all 2A threads because he pollutes all of them with the same tired talking points...

"The same tired talking points" pretty much applies to all sides of the gun debate.

Now if a new strategy should break through .... this would be interesting.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #809 on: April 08, 2018, 07:33:56 pm »
"The same tired talking points" pretty much applies to all sides of the gun debate.

Now if a new strategy should break through .... this would be interesting.

@Right_in_Virginia

New strategy?  Make murder illegal?  Make criminals illegal?  Removing sin from humanity?

The reality is we don't have a gun problem.  We have a problem in a very small % of this country where criminals run amok.   Nearly all murders occur in about 3% of the counties in this country.
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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #810 on: April 08, 2018, 07:36:49 pm »
"The same tired talking points" pretty much applies to all sides of the gun debate.

Now if a new strategy should break through .... this would be interesting.

That's what we're all waiting for, and is probably why the thread is not going to be locked.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #811 on: April 08, 2018, 07:40:17 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

New strategy?  Make murder illegal?  Make criminals illegal?  Removing sin from humanity?

The reality is we don't have a gun problem. 

The reality is we have a messaging problem ... we're preaching to the choir.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #812 on: April 08, 2018, 07:42:15 pm »
That's what we're all waiting for, and is probably why the thread is not going to be locked.

LOL.  So you're anticipating this thread continuing through the end of the millennium.  Good to know.   :laugh:

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #813 on: April 08, 2018, 07:52:56 pm »
LOL.  So you're anticipating this thread continuing through the end of the millennium.  Good to know.   :laugh:

Pretty much.  I heard somebody suggest Stevens is going to kick the bucket before we give this one a wrap.  :laugh:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline the_doc

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #814 on: April 08, 2018, 08:24:12 pm »
Absolutely untrue.  I have never blocked any member from contacting me by PM.  Hell, I've never placed another member on ignore, period.   You likely tried to PM me when I was under a temporary ban.   


 My apologies for thinking you had blocked me.  (That's what the pop-up said next to your name in the address block, though.)

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #815 on: April 08, 2018, 09:24:19 pm »
INVAR is right.

Aaarrrggghhh!  It's the end of the world.
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Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #816 on: April 08, 2018, 09:27:31 pm »
Only if we ban @Jazzhead from posting to all 2A threads because he pollutes all of them with the same tired talking points...register and insure...blah, blah, blah. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum

 :chairbang:
 :rolling:

Why not just ban 2A threads altogether?  None of you all ever say anything new ;).
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #817 on: April 08, 2018, 09:29:48 pm »
@the_doc
Trust but verify.  Send him a test PM and see if he responds.  I sent him one a while back checking on his rehab.  Got a similar message.  I figured I was blocked too. We ain't exactly what you would call "Buds"


This the message I get.  Someone has some splaining to do.
User 'Jazzhead' has blocked your personal message.

@Jazzhead @Wingnut  I receive the same message, too.  I think there's something wrong with Jazz's PMs.
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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #818 on: April 08, 2018, 09:30:06 pm »
Why not just ban 2A threads altogether?  None of you all ever say anything new ;).

Nobody has for hundreds of posts, @LauraTXNM.  Be fair.
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Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #819 on: April 08, 2018, 09:31:47 pm »
Nobody has for hundreds of posts, @LauraTXNM.  Be fair.

@Cyber Liberty   Absolutely!  That's what I meant ;).  Not taking sides here.
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #820 on: April 08, 2018, 09:34:50 pm »
@Cyber Liberty   Absolutely!  That's what I meant ;).  Not taking sides here.

I'm glad to hear that.  This thread is a tar-baby.  But that PM thingy is a bit of a curiosity...
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #821 on: April 08, 2018, 09:35:47 pm »
@Jazzhead @Wingnut  I receive the same message, too.  I think there's something wrong with Jazz's PMs.

I bet it's a selection on his Message Preferences

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #822 on: April 08, 2018, 09:35:48 pm »
@Jazzhead @Wingnut  I receive the same message, too.  I think there's something wrong with Jazz's PMs.

Nope..just checked..his pm's work
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #823 on: April 08, 2018, 09:46:34 pm »
And it flies in the face of over 100 years of history showing that one leads to the other. 

I'm sure it was pitched as "common sense" to the people that allowed their weapons to be registered...then confiscated in the a countries (ad two U.S. states so far) where registration led almost immediately to confiscation.

To what extent does man have a natural or God-given right to self-preservation and protection of his property?  This question has been bandied about for thousands of years, and that issue, not guns (which are an instrument of self-preservation), is at the heart of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.

The United States is the only nation in the annals of mankind to be established on the basis of a political and social philosophy centered on natural, or God-given, rights.  Among these are self-preservation and property.  Property rights are the bedrock of the American political system; without that foundation, there is no freedom.  The Founders held that property rights encompass not just physical property, but also one's life, labor, speech, and livelihood, as individuals own their own lives; therefore, they must own the products of those lives, which can be traded in free exchange with others.  Further, as there is a natural right of self-preservation, man has the right and duty to defend himself against transgressors, including the state, who would deny, abrogate, or unlawfully seize his property.

However, over the past 150 years, the statists, including the current iteration of the American left, have marched in lockstep to what Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels espoused in their Communist Manifesto: "The Theory of Communism may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."  They contended that one's labor or livelihood (and by extension, one's life) is not private property and is thus subordinate to the common good as determined by the state.  Therefore, the individual has no God-given and unconstrained right of self-defense, as that right can be utilized to counter or oppose the common good.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,311287.msg1653016.html#msg1653016

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #824 on: April 08, 2018, 09:56:37 pm »
Well that could be or he is just anti-social and is blocking everyone.

Myst's PM came through.  I have no idea what the problem is.
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