Increasing sea ice is a result of human-caused global warming

[rangerrebew]

Increasing sea ice is a result of human-caused global warming
March 23, 2018 by Robert   

Here we go again.
Apparently, the warmer it gets, the icier it gets.
And we’re supposed to believe it.

“Ships plying the North Atlantic Ocean in spring are facing increased hazards from floating Arctic sea ice as a result of human-caused global warming.” says Discover Magazine.

https://www.iceagenow.info/increasing-sea-ice-is-a-result-of-human-caused-global-warming/#more-25162

[Oceander]

The article points out that the issue is not an increase in the ice mass per se, but an increase in the mobility of the ice, which would imply more icebergs floating around, which could certainly be caused by warming temperatures causing more ice to calve off the main ice masses. 

[240B]

I'm just asking a question. Did anthropogenic Global Warming cause the Ice Age 10,000 years ago?
Did anthropogenic Global Warming cause the continents to separate?
Did anthropogenic Global Warming make my gum bleed and my right upper tooth to hurt when I drink cold water?

[The_Reader_David]

I'm just asking a question. Did anthropogenic Global Warming cause the Ice Age 10,000 years ago?
Did anthropogenic Global Warming cause the continents to separate?
Did anthropogenic Global Warming make my gum bleed and my right upper tooth to hurt when I drink cold water?

No, no and yes.  /AGW-hysteric-mode

According to the AGW hysterics everything that's currently wrong with the world from ISIS to Putin's aggressive policies to the nor'easters on the East Coast and the "Beast from the East" in Europe, floods, droughts, . . . . is due to AGW, so surely your bleeding gums and toothache with cold water are due to AGW.

BTW, levity aside, for the sensitive tooth, order some European Synsodyne Repair and Protect toothpaste on Amazon.  Unlike the US product with the same name, it actually works.  I had horrible cold-sensitivity in a tooth hit while I was on sabbatical the UK, picked up a tube of the stuff at Boots, and the problem vanished within a week.  It came back when I bought the US version after returning to the States.  Fortunately Amazon has the useful version (from resellers in the UK and Spain), so I didn't have to bother my daughter who lives in the UK to send me some.  Be sure the version you get mentions "Novamin" in the formula.  The American version is just like old Crest, stannous fluoride toothpaste, the European is sodium fluoride toothpaste with an extra ingredient, brandnamed "Novamin", something called a "bioglass" that binds to exposed dentin and essentially makes new enamel (not chemical identical to tooth-enamel, but it does the same job).

[Cyber Liberty]

No, no and yes.  /AGW-hysteric-mode

According to the AGW hysterics everything that's currently wrong with the world from ISIS to Putin's aggressive policies to the nor'easters on the East Coast and the "Beast from the East" in Europe, floods, droughts, . . . . is due to AGW, so surely your bleeding gums and toothache with cold water are due to AGW.

BTW, levity aside, for the sensitive tooth, order some European Synsodyne Repair and Protect toothpaste on Amazon.  Unlike the US product with the same name, it actually works.  I had horrible cold-sensitivity in a tooth hit while I was on sabbatical the UK, picked up a tube of the stuff at Boots, and the problem vanished within a week.  It came back when I bought the US version after returning to the States.  Fortunately Amazon has the useful version (from resellers in the UK and Spain), so I didn't have to bother my daughter who lives in the UK to send me some.  Be sure the version you get mentions "Novamin" in the formula.  The American version is just like old Crest, stannous fluoride toothpaste, the European is sodium fluoride toothpaste with an extra ingredient, brandnamed "Novamin", something called a "bioglass" that binds to exposed dentin and essentially makes new enamel (not chemical identical to tooth-enamel, but it does the same job).

Wow!  I'm glad I stumbled across this post!  I just ordered a few tubes from Amazon, saw the "Novamin" in the catalog entry....

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The article points out that the issue is not an increase in the ice mass per se, but an increase in the mobility of the ice, which would imply more icebergs floating around, which could certainly be caused by warming temperatures causing more ice to calve off the main ice masses.

Uh, warming temperatures is what happens in the North Altantic during the spring.

Why are you blaming a normal season on earth on anything other than that?

[Oceander]

Uh, warming temperatures is what happens in the North Altantic during the spring.

Why are you blaming a normal season on earth on anything other than that?

Uh, I’m not blaming anything, just pointing out the lack of logic in the statement deriding the article.  And since the article points to increasing amounts of mobile ice, that is circumstantial evidence that it is more than just normal spring warming. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Uh, I’m not blaming anything, just pointing out the lack of logic in the statement deriding the article.  And since the article points to increasing amounts of mobile ice, that is circumstantial evidence that it is more than just normal spring warming.

I read the article, and I'm inclined to go along with what you're saying about too much being read into the conclusions that more icebergs are being calved recently.  There are many factors that would contribute to that.  We have even less historical data on iceberg population than surface temperatures over time because it's an observed phenomenon, subject to what people see, not something objectively measured.

It's just another piece of a puzzle that we don't know where it goes....

Meanwhile, I hope our ability to detect these navigational hazards has improved over the past century or so.

[jpsb]

Uh, I’m not blaming anything, just pointing out the lack of logic in the statement deriding the article.  And since the article points to increasing amounts of mobile ice, that is circumstantial evidence that it is more than just normal spring warming.

The current temperature at the North Pole is -36C

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ca/weather/nunavut/the-north-pole

The current temperature at the South Pole is -56F

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/antarctica/south-pole

-36C = -32.8F


The USS Little Rock was commissioned back in December 2017 in Buffalo, New York, and will remain stuck in Montreal Quebec, Canada until the ice melts.

http://www.mlive.com/news/us-world/index.ssf/2018/03/uss_little_rock_in_canada.html

[Oceander]

The current temperature at the North Pole is -36C

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ca/weather/nunavut/the-north-pole

The current temperature at the South Pole is -56F

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/antarctica/south-pole

-36C = -32.8F


The USS Little Rock was commissioned back in December 2017 in Buffalo, New York, and will remain stuck in Montreal Quebec, Canada until the ice melts.

http://www.mlive.com/news/us-world/index.ssf/2018/03/uss_little_rock_in_canada.html

So?

None of that, even if true, saves the original response to the article from being nonsense. 

[catfish1957]

It should have been a clue to normal sane people of this scam when the term "global warming" magically became "climate change".

[dfwgator]

So?

None of that, even if true, saves the original response to the article from being nonsense.

So how they reach the conclusion that the "warming" is caused by humans?    Climates have always cooled or warmed over time,   humans have nothing to do with it.

[jpsb]

So?

None of that, even if true, saves the original response to the article from being nonsense.

Fresh water freezes at 32 degrees Fahrenheit but seawater freezes at about 28.4 degrees Fahrenheit

I'd say the Arctic is plenty cold enough to be making sea ice. Dido the Antarctic. I haven't checked
in a few weeks but last time I did check ice coverage and extent were in near "normal" range what
ever near normal means for the short period of time we have been able to observer accurately. 

We've had several big storm cross the N Atlantic recently I'm sure those storms pushed a bunch
of sea ice south. IMHO this has got zero to do with AGW.

[Oceander]

Fresh water freezes at 32 degrees Fahrenheit but seawater freezes at about 28.4 degrees Fahrenheit

I'd say the Arctic is plenty cold enough to be making sea ice. Dido the Antarctic. I haven't checked
in a few weeks but last time I did check ice coverage and extent were in near "normal" range what
ever near normal means for the short period of time we have been able to observer accurately. 

We've had several big storm cross the N Atlantic recently I'm sure those storms pushed a bunch
of sea ice south. IMHO this has got zero to do with AGW.

Maybe so, but that still doesn’t vitiate the fact that the original Nyah-Nyah response to the article was illogical.  Assuming arguendo the globe was warming, that warming probably would lead to increased calving of ice, which would result in greater mobile ice being seen in the water, which is what the article hypothesizes.  It is no response to that hypothesis to say “ geez, what morons; they’re blaming more ice on warming temperatures.”

[jpsb]

Well the big ice bergs the ones that can sink a ship come from Greenland. And yes via calving. But
Greenland is a bowl so warming there would not increase calving much. Maybe a little at first but
gravity will keep most of the ice on Greenland.

[Free Vulcan]

For ice to calve, there needs to be ice in the first place, something the warmists are claiming has went away. It indeed does seem counterintuitive.

[roamer_1]

The article points out that the issue is not an increase in the ice mass per se, but an increase in the mobility of the ice, which would imply more icebergs floating around, which could certainly be caused by warming temperatures causing more ice to calve off the main ice masses.

I can't speak exactly to anything except mountain glaciers - but the reason they calve is indeed due to mobility - but that mobility is always due to increased snowfall - the weight of the extra snow 'upstream', causes the shifting, which increases flow, thus more calving at the foot of the glacier.
 
So more snow causing more weight... Hardly a recipe for global warming.

[Cyber Liberty]

I can't speak exactly to anything except mountain glaciers - but the reason they calve is indeed due to mobility - but that mobility is always due to increased snowfall - the weight of the extra snow 'upstream', causes the shifting, which increases flow, thus more calving at the foot of the glacier.
 
So more snow causing more weight... Hardly a recipe for global warming.

Sort of goes to my point:  It's difficult to draw any conclusions WRT "Climate Change" because of an apparent increase in the number of icebergs.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Uh, I’m not blaming anything, just pointing out the lack of logic in the statement deriding the article.  And since the article points to increasing amounts of mobile ice, that is circumstantial evidence that it is more than just normal spring warming.

I do not understand your logic.  Spring is when ice melts that accumulates during the colder winter months.

And a 'normal' spring warming is exactly what? Are you saying that all spring thaws are the same and anything out of the 'normal' is ___?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

For ice to calve, there needs to be ice in the first place, something the warmists are claiming has went away. It indeed does seem counterintuitive.

Good point.

Those who say the ice areas are shrinking now say more ice is floating around the ocean.

Trying to have it both ways.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Maybe so, but that still doesn’t vitiate the fact that the original Nyah-Nyah response to the article was illogical.  Assuming arguendo the globe was warming, that warming probably would lead to increased calving of ice, which would result in greater mobile ice being seen in the water, which is what the article hypothesizes.  It is no response to that hypothesis to say “ geez, what morons; they’re blaming more ice on warming temperatures.”

The article clearly says that humans caused global warming.  No support for that assertion, just a blanket statement.

That is worthy of the biggest , in your words 'Nyah-Nyah', and makes the article illogical or at the least extremely unconvincing.