Update: 6-10 reported killed. At least 6 injured in Florida International University bridge collap

[thackney]

Yeah, it could be those things too.  But I'm going by Myst's info that the center support was not installed.  I've read through several articles and can't find that information, but that is what I was basing my guess on; the center support not being installed.

The missing support is for the tower which holds suspension cables.  That provides additional support to the trusses of the span.

In my post earlier, I included a rendering of the final design that shows it.  The collapse pictures shows it was not yet installed.

Likely the design included additional temporary supports that are not as obvious until the tower and suspension cables are installed.

Every component cannot be built first.  It has to be designed for that reality.

[RoosGirl]

The missing support is for the tower which holds suspension cables.  That provides additional support to the trusses of the span.

In my post earlier, I included a rendering of the final design that shows it.  The collapse pictures shows it was not yet installed.

Likely the design included additional temporary supports that are not as obvious until the tower and suspension cables are installed.

Every component cannot be built first.  It has to be designed for that reality.

This picture tells me that the base of the center support was installed.  You can see it at the right. I wouldn't think the cable supports were in yet. But if you look at the rendering the center support was in the right of way, nothing in the road because there's no, or very little, median to put it in.

[thackney]

This picture tells me that the base of the center support was installed.  You can see it at the right. I wouldn't think the cable supports were in yet. But if you look at the rendering the center support was in the right of way, nothing in the road because there's no, or very little, median to put it in.

When I said missing support, I mean the tower and associated cables, not the foundation which also provides some support from underneath.

[driftdiver]

When I said missing support, I mean the tower and associated cables, not the foundation which also provides some support from underneath.

According to foxnews they were doing a stress test and at the time of the collapse were tightening the cables which had loosened.

[RoosGirl]

When I said missing support, I mean the tower and associated cables, not the foundation which also provides some support from underneath.

Haha, if anyone is still reading this besides us enginerds it's an insight for why engineers need to be so precise and accurate with how things are worded, and a reminder for us enginerds.

[austingirl]

The span was put in place with the road closed last weekend.

Complete construction is more than a year.  The road cannot be closed that long.

Thanks for the info.
I'd like to learn more about what the stress test they were supposedly performing consisted of.

[mountaineer]

Haha, if anyone is still reading this besides us enginerds it's an insight for why engineers need to be so precise and accurate with how things are worded, and a reminder for us enginerds.

I once had a civil engineer roommate and received quite an education on proper construction practices. I find the discussion interesting.

[thackney]

Haha, if anyone is still reading this besides us enginerds it's an insight for why engineers need to be so precise and accurate with how things are worded, and a reminder for us enginerds.

 

[thackney]

State: Voicemail About Cracks 2 Days Before Bridge Fell
http://kstp.com/national/state-voicemail-about-cracks-2-days-before-bridge-fell/4829398/?cat=1

An engineer left a voicemail two days before a catastrophic bridge failure in Miami to say some cracking had been found at one end of the concrete span, but the voicemail wasn't picked up until after the collapse, Florida Department of Transportation officials said Friday.

The voicemail left on a landline wasn't heard by a state DOT employee until Friday because the employee was out of the office on an assignment, the agency said in an email.

In a transcript released Friday night, Denney Pate with FIGG Bridge Group says the cracking would need repairs "but from a safety perspective we don't see that there's any issue there so we're not concerned about it from that perspective."

At a news conference Friday night, officials from the National Transportation Safety Board said they have just begun their investigation, and cannot yet say whether that cracking contributed to the collapse. They also said workers were trying to strengthen a diagonal member on the pedestrian bridge at Florida International University when it collapsed....

...When finished, the span would have been supported from above, with a tall, off-center tower and cables attached to the walkway. That tower had not yet been installed, and it was unclear what builders were using as temporary supports.

[DB]

State: Voicemail About Cracks 2 Days Before Bridge Fell
http://kstp.com/national/state-voicemail-about-cracks-2-days-before-bridge-fell/4829398/?cat=1

An engineer left a voicemail two days before a catastrophic bridge failure in Miami to say some cracking had been found at one end of the concrete span, but the voicemail wasn't picked up until after the collapse, Florida Department of Transportation officials said Friday.

The voicemail left on a landline wasn't heard by a state DOT employee until Friday because the employee was out of the office on an assignment, the agency said in an email.

In a transcript released Friday night, Denney Pate with FIGG Bridge Group says the cracking would need repairs "but from a safety perspective we don't see that there's any issue there so we're not concerned about it from that perspective."

At a news conference Friday night, officials from the National Transportation Safety Board said they have just begun their investigation, and cannot yet say whether that cracking contributed to the collapse. They also said workers were trying to strengthen a diagonal member on the pedestrian bridge at Florida International University when it collapsed....

...When finished, the span would have been supported from above, with a tall, off-center tower and cables attached to the walkway. That tower had not yet been installed, and it was unclear what builders were using as temporary supports.

I wonder if their "strengthening" efforts pushed it beyond its limits? For example they tightened a tension cable they thought was too loose but was in fact too tight.

[mountaineer]

Senator demands docs about collapsed Florida bridge as reports of cracks surface
By Paulina Dedaj | Fox News

As reports emerged about an engineer's warning of cracks days before Thursday's calamitous collapse of a pedestrian bridge in Florida, a U.S. senator wants to find out exactly who was behind the construction that may have led to the structure's fatal failure.

Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., ranking member of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, is “demanding” documents related to oversight of the construction of the bridge at Florida International University in Miami, according to a statement from his office.  ...

Florida’s Department of Transportation said Friday that an engineer left a voicemail just two days before the bridge failure, notifying the department of cracking in the concrete.

A transcript released Friday shows Denney Pate with FIGG Bridge Group saying the cracking would need repairs "but from a safety perspective we don't see that there's any issue there so we're not concerned about it from that perspective.”  ... Full article

[Bigun]

Senator demands docs about collapsed Florida bridge as reports of cracks surface
By Paulina Dedaj | Fox News

As reports emerged about an engineer's warning of cracks days before Thursday's calamitous collapse of a pedestrian bridge in Florida, a U.S. senator wants to find out exactly who was behind the construction that may have led to the structure's fatal failure.

Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., ranking member of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, is “demanding” documents related to oversight of the construction of the bridge at Florida International University in Miami, according to a statement from his office.  ...

Florida’s Department of Transportation said Friday that an engineer left a voicemail just two days before the bridge failure, notifying the department of cracking in the concrete.

A transcript released Friday shows Denney Pate with FIGG Bridge Group saying the cracking would need repairs "but from a safety perspective we don't see that there's any issue there so we're not concerned about it from that perspective.”  ... Full article

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that before this is over they are going to find that corners were cut in both engineering standards and materials.  We shall see.  Or perhaps we won't should they decide to cover it all up and deal with it administratively later.

[RoosGirl]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that before this is over they are going to find that corners were cut in both engineering standards and materials.  We shall see.  Or perhaps we won't should they decide to cover it all up and deal with it administratively later.

The Florida Board sends out quarterly newsletters.  Any individual engineer or engineering firm who has been disciplined is listed in a Disciplinary section of the newsletter.  If it happens I'll know about it.

[Bigun]

The Florida Board sends out quarterly newsletters.  Any individual engineer or engineering firm who has been disciplined is listed in a Disciplinary section of the newsletter.  If it happens I'll know about it.

@RoosGirl

Would you be so kind as to pass any such information along?

[RoosGirl]

@RoosGirl

Would you be so kind as to pass any such information along?

Will do if I remember by the time it happens.  I'm going to have to make a note to myself somewhere of the name of the engineering firm and the engineer involved.  Anyone recall the name of the engineer that left the voicemail with the FDOT?

Nevermind, Denney Pate.

[Bigun]

Will do if I remember by the time it happens.  I'm going to have to make a note to myself somewhere of the name of the engineering firm and the engineer involved.  Anyone recall the name of the engineer that left the voicemail with the FDOT?

Nevermind, Denney Pate.

 

[RoosGirl]

Huh, well that's an interest.  I just searched at MyFloridaLicense.com and Denney Pate is not listed as an engineer.

[Bigun]

Huh, well that's an interest.  I just searched at MyFloridaLicense.com and Denney Pate is not listed as an engineer.

I have attended a few contract awards over the years by state agencies.  That day people with ALL the proper creds are there.  Rarely, if ever, see those people again.   

[RoosGirl]

I have attended a few contract awards over the years by state agencies.  That day people with ALL the proper creds are there.  Rarely, if ever, see those people again.

That's common.  Contract award type stuff is attended by the Principles, Managers, etc.  Day to day work is done by lower level engineers.  They're still either PEs or EIs overseen by a PE.  Not a big deal.

[Bigun]

That's common.  Contract award type stuff is attended by the Principles, Managers, etc.  Day to day work is done by lower level engineers.  They're still either PEs or EIs overseen by a PE.  Not a big deal.

Except when they aren't.  And I KNOW that for a fact!  Not just engineers either.  Most of the "skilled" craftsmen on those jobs are not even licensed and are not working under the supervision of anyone who is.

[RoosGirl]

Except when they aren't.  And I KNOW that for a fact!  Not just engineers either.  Most of the "skilled" craftsmen on those jobs are not even licensed and are not working under the supervision of anyone who is.

That is illegal in Florida.  The Board, via Florida law, is very strict about who can call themselves an engineer and what type of work can be done with and without a PE license.  I do see firms and people disciplined for it, though it is not common because, imo, it's not worth the penalty.  For example, although I am a PE my area of practice is "water resources".  I cannot legally perform any structural work or any other type of engineering that falls outside the water resources area. 

I don't really know what the requirements are on job sites for what kind of "education" is required for installation, particularly when it comes to bridge work, other than companies required to be Certified General Contractors or such.

[Bigun]

That is illegal in Florida.  The Board, via Florida law, is very strict about who can call themselves an engineer and what type of work can be done with and without a PE license.  I do see firms and people disciplined for it, though it is not common because, imo, it's not worth the penalty.  For example, although I am a PE my area of practice is "water resources".  I cannot legally perform any structural work or any other type of engineering that falls outside the water resources area. 

I don't really know what the requirements are on job sites for what kind of "education" is required for installation, particularly when it comes to bridge work, other than companies required to be Certified General Contractors or such.

Yeah!  It's technically against the law here as well but since no one ever checks it makes little difference.

Here' just one example of what I'm talking about.  The law in Texas says that "ANY new construction or renovation of a habitation in this state that is connected to a public water supply system must be inspected by a licensed plumbing inspector."   That never happened on any project that I was involved with in 22.5 years and it is the same for everything else as well.. 

[mountaineer]

My friend who was a civil engineer worked in construction management - but never got her P.E. certification.
Perhaps the reference to Pate as an engineer didn't mean P.E., or the writer just didn't know the difference.

[RoosGirl]

My friend who was a civil engineer worked in construction management - but never got her P.E. certification.
Perhaps the reference to Pate as an engineer didn't mean P.E., or the writer just didn't know the difference.

Yep, could be an inspector for the company and not necessarily a PE.  In fact, I think most inspectors are not PEs.

[truth_seeker]

What about the required building inspection signoffs, by city/county/state agencies?

Seems to be a huge failure by "government,," yet again.

--licensing
--apprval of plans
--inspection of physical aspects during construction