Death penalty for drug dealers? Count Trump in

[DB]

Just a little factual input.

Trump's brother died of alcoholism.

While only 1 in 10 that drink, will develop serious problems (alcoholism), most WILL have problems with heroin, opioids, methamphetamine, etc..

So comparing dangerous drugs, with alcohol and coffee seems clever, is ridiculous.

https://www.vox.com/2014/5/19/5727712/drug-alcohol-deaths

According to the above, alcohol kills about 88,000 a year (2015). Other than tobacco, all other drugs result in fewer deaths. So alcohol comparisons are not "ridiculous".

[corbe]

   First, they came for the drug dealers, I didn't care because I no longer dealt drugs, Then they came for the #Nevers and I realized I was the only one left on their $hit list.

[LauraTXNM]

I know that punishing drug dealers is the topic here, but I feel more importantly, in fact I feel it critical that we need to get those addicted some help. Drug use/addiction has risen dramatically and we now have an epidemic.  What we've done in the past as far as drug abuse hasn't worked. Cost is one of the main factors of addiction; many addicts don't have health insurance making it virtually impossible for them to go through any sort of rehabilitation program as the cost of successful rehabilitation programs is astronomical.  Portugal has had some success:

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/portugal-heroin-decriminalization/

@libertybele I agree with you!  Now, to make things REALLY exciting, this is why we need nationalized healthcare ;).

[LauraTXNM]

   First, they came for the drug dealers, I didn't care because I no longer dealt drugs, Then they came for the #Nevers and I realized I was the only one left on their $hit list.

@corbe I'm sure you'll always be first on SOMEONE'S $hitlist 

[corbe]

    No doubt, especially around here, but I love this place, regardless @LauraTXNM

[Fantom]

Drug dealers... would that include bartenders and starbucks baristas? They dispense recreational drugs to the masses don't they?

Yes, yes... I am sure that is where this is going.

They are the same as anyone distributing tons of meth.

[TomSea]

https://www.vox.com/2014/5/19/5727712/drug-alcohol-deaths

According to the above, alcohol kills about 88,000 a year (2015). Other than tobacco, all other drugs result in fewer deaths. So alcohol comparisons are not "ridiculous".

We tried prohibition, we could try it again. One could write their congressman.

DWI deaths have come way down.

[DB]

    No doubt, especially around here, but I love this place, regardless @LauraTXNM

You'll have to work a whole lot harder if you want to be on my shit list...

[Fantom]

We tried prohibition, we could try it again. One could write their congressman.

DWI deaths have come way down.

There is that. Everyone who has ever been born, has died.

The thing is, decriminalize the user. We do not put rape victims in jail... usually... maybe the Clintons do.

But I digress, for drugs... really addictive ones, cocaine, meth, opiods... yes... take out the networks providing them. Including the death penalty.. promptly administered. Otherwise legalize the lessor ones.

[DB]

We tried prohibition, we could try it again. One could write their congressman.

DWI deaths have come way down.

Prohibition gave us the first "drug lords"... Hell no.

[Fantom]

Prohibition gave us the first "drug lords"... Hell no.

Prohibition gave us the Kennedy's... which gave us a turd world invasion.

[libertybele]

@libertybele I agree with you!  Now, to make things REALLY exciting, this is why we need nationalized healthcare ;).

Well, if we take the example of Portugal, (and I first heard of their success on the Glenn Beck program), from my understanding those that are 'busted' or arrested with drugs and are under the influence are given a choice.  They can either elect to be incarcerated and do their time or they can go through a government funded detox and rehabilitation program.  Our government funds our state and federal prisons and in essence what I am stating is rather than using the funds to incarcerate people and then putting them back on the streets, use those funds to detox and rehabilitate.

The other issue are those that are addicted to prescription drugs. They usually have some sort of health insurance and can be treated through their physicians, and/or treatment centers. 

So, I don't consider nationalized healthcare as the answer.

[LauraTXNM]

Well, if we take the example of Portugal, (and I first heard of their success on the Glenn Beck program), from my understanding those that are 'busted' or arrested with drugs and are under the influence are given a choice.  They can either elect to be incarcerated and do their time or they can go through a government funded detox and rehabilitation program.  Our government funds our state and federal prisons and in essence what I am stating is rather than using the funds to incarcerate people and then putting them back on the streets, use those funds to detox and rehabilitate.

The other issue are those that are addicted to prescription drugs. They usually have some sort of health insurance and can be treated through their physicians, and/or treatment centers. 

So, I don't consider nationalized healthcare as the answer.

The issue I've seen here, re incarceration vs drug court/treatment, is that we need to allocate a LOT more money for rehab facilities and beds and longer treatment programs. 

[edpc]

Name something Trump has taken an absolute stand on in the last 30 years...

Chasing tail.

[Fishrrman]

Weird wrote:
"Trump is sounding like Duerte..."

That's fine with me.
I -like- the idea.
Sorry if that offends you. Or anyone else.
I couldn't care less.

[INVAR]

Weird wrote:
"Trump is sounding like Duerte..."

That's fine with me.
I -like- the idea.
Sorry if that offends you. Or anyone else.
I couldn't care less.

By that reckoning, sorry if you are offended that we would liken such thinking and cheerleading to fanatics saluting despots from the 30's.

I also can care less if that offends.

Isn't it great?  A board that allows everyone to be offended equally!

[DB]

Weird wrote:
"Trump is sounding like Duerte..."

That's fine with me.
I -like- the idea.
Sorry if that offends you. Or anyone else.
I couldn't care less.

You'll really like it when they skip the due process part like Duerte has... Sucks to be you if the locals don't like you...

[truth_seeker]

The issue I've seen here, re incarceration vs drug court/treatment, is that we need to allocate a LOT more money for rehab facilities and beds and longer treatment programs.

We already have a lot more money for rehab. Anybody in the nation,, is eligible for health insurance, regardless of ability to pay, per Obamacare.

There are recruiters that will pick addicts up at parks, take them to insurance sign up brokers. The coverage they get entitles them to first class treatment, as one of the Essential Healthcare Benefits

https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/what-marketplace-plans-cover/

This includes detox, hospitalization, sober living, daily treatment including "one-on-one," "group," drug testing, trips to the gym, trips to the beach, trips to AA and/or NA meetings.

There are many, many already availing themselves of trips to California, Florida, etc. for fun times.

There is a shortage of serious willingness, not of money or programs.

[GtHawk]

Drug dealers... would that include bartenders and starbucks baristas? They dispense recreational drugs to the masses don't they?

It should definitely include star*ucks baristas, anyone that pushes that crap on another human being deserves to die!

[LauraTXNM]

We already have a lot more money for rehab. Anybody in the nation,, is eligible for health insurance, regardless of ability to pay, per Obamacare.

There are recruiters that will pick addicts up at parks, take them to insurance sign up brokers. The coverage they get entitles them to first class treatment, as one of the Essential Healthcare Benefits

https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/what-marketplace-plans-cover/

This includes detox, hospitalization, sober living, daily treatment including "one-on-one," "group," drug testing, trips to the gym, trips to the beach, trips to AA and/or NA meetings.

There are many, many already availing themselves of trips to California, Florida, etc. for fun times.

There is a shortage of serious willingness, not of money or programs.

The link is to the plans offered through the marketplace -- you do have to pay, even if you get the subsidy.  In some states I don't think there are any companies operating in the market any more.  And the help offered under Medicaid is pretty minimal. 

I'm curious to see, if the President's plan to deal with opioids will include a lot of money for facilities and beds.  I know people in Ohio, for example, have to wait at least six months for a placement. 

[truth_seeker]

The link is to the plans offered through the marketplace -- you do have to pay, even if you get the subsidy.  In some states I don't think there are any companies operating in the market any more.  And the help offered under Medicaid is pretty minimal. 

I'm curious to see, if the President's plan to deal with opioids will include a lot of money for facilities and beds.  I know people in Ohio, for example, have to wait at least six months for a placement.

There was an extensive article in the OC Register, within the last year, stating the facts as I state them. I go to 2-3 AA meetings per week, and there are typically  vanloads of new people, from all across the land. They come in Mercedes Benz vans. The treatment business is vey lucrative. I can drive you to their facilities. All this in OC.

Newport Beach and Costa Mesa spent $ millions to keep sober living homes out, to no avail.

Most residents are livid, not prone to getting lectures from liberals that insult them, for not wanting criminals and addicts, in their otherwise pristine neighborhoods.

I am speaking about Obamacare as implemented in California- "Covered California," not in Ohio. 

[LauraTXNM]

There was an extensive article in the OC Register, within the last year, stating the facts as I state them. I go to 2-3 AA meetings per week, and there are typically  vanloads of new people, from all across the land. They come in Mercedes Benz vans. The treatment business is vey lucrative. I can drive you to their facilities. All this in OC.

Newport Beach and Costa Mesa spent $ millions to keep sober living homes out, to no avail.

Most residents are livid, not prone to getting lectures from liberals that insult them, for not wanting criminals and addicts, in their otherwise pristine neighborhoods.

I am speaking about Obamacare as implemented in California- "Covered California," not in Ohio.

Yikes, what a mess!  I looked into some treatment homes for my younger sister a couple of years ago.  She has Writer's Guild insurance but couldn't afford any of the longer programs.  Go figure.

Ugh, if this is the article you mentioned, it's very thorough!   https://www.ocregister.com/2017/05/21/how-some-southern-california-drug-rehab-centers-exploit-addiction/

[Smokin Joe]

I know that punishing drug dealers is the topic here, but I feel more importantly, in fact I feel it critical that we need to get those addicted some help. Drug use/addiction has risen dramatically and we now have an epidemic.  What we've done in the past as far as drug abuse hasn't worked. Cost is one of the main factors of addiction; many addicts don't have health insurance making it virtually impossible for them to go through any sort of rehabilitation program as the cost of successful rehabilitation programs is astronomical.  Portugal has had some success:

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/portugal-heroin-decriminalization/

There is no single solution to the problem, but so long as the drugs are available, the users will find a way to get them, if that means stripping the sluminum siding off your house and selling it for scrap. I know a guy who worked in Singapore, where the dealers are summarily executed. They seem to be having far fewer problems there than we have here, where in virtually any town in the US you can get meth, heroin, etc.

The problem goes far beyond the simple dealing/use of these drugs, but well into everything from armed robbery to turf battles (drive-by shootings) to petit and grand larceny to fund the addicts and the stolen goods and human trafficking rings that pick up those goods.

The question is one of where the weak link is in that chain, what choke point would bring the works grinding to a halt,. and without being able to control the importation or manufacture of the drugs, the dealers are the link which could most likely be broken, if the will is there to make dealing so serious a crime that it is effectively deterred.

Otherwise, play pattycake with the problem by focusing on the users rather than the supply, and you are fighting a battle by going hand to hand with each individual soldier instead of cutting off the supplies that keep the war going and the transport/distribution networks that make the problem possible.

That said, a fair trial, observe the Constitution, get a conviction following due process, and eliminate the critical link in the supply chain once and for all. Not only will there be much lower rates of repeat offenders, others might be deterred from taking up that particular vocation.

[DB]

Singapore is a police state.

Prohibition doesn't work unless you are willing to live in a police state.

I believe the problem starts with the user. If our culture can't raise children with the tools to avoid becoming drug addicts our culture is doomed in terms of liberty and self determination.

[Fishrrman]

DB wrote:
"Singapore is a police state.
Prohibition doesn't work unless you are willing to live in a police state.
I believe the problem starts with the user. If our culture can't raise children with the tools to avoid becoming drug addicts our culture is doomed in terms of liberty and self determination."

So.. you are willing to accept the death of the culture, all out of the fear that heavy-handed tactics against those who deal death in the form of drugs will lead to a police state?

One of "the tools" of which you speak above is to remove the dealers who provide access to the drugs. And to "remove" them with "extreme moral prejudice", so to speak.

I'll take "the police state" tactics over cultural death, thank you very much. I really mean that.

Smokin' Joe struck a good balance above.
1. Give 'em their "due process", then...
2. ... Get 'em OUT OF here!