Manchin: Trump's Right. China's to Blame.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Manchin: Trump's Right. China's to Blame.
Townhall, Mar 4, 2018, Cortney O'Brien

Last week President Trump announced a new 25 percent tariff on steel imports and a 10 percent hike on aluminum imports. Foreign leaders like Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called the move "unacceptable" and the European Union threatened to respond to the U.S. with their own tariff.

***

At least one person sees where Trump is coming from.

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV), one of Congress's more moderate Democrats, is siding with the president in his explanation of China's trade practices.

“When you look at who produces the steel in the world, 50 percent of the steel produced in the world comes from China. The United States is the largest importer of the steel,” Manchin said.  “Connect the dots. Even though they’re saying it might not come directly from China, it comes ... through other countries.”

Knowing China's M.O., Manchin "welcomes" Trump's plan.


Read more: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2018/03/04/manchin-trumps-right-chinas-to-blame-n2457298

[TomSea]

Yes, we need to battle back ground we've given up in the past. I'm no expert but for all we know, giving China "most favored nation" status was a dumb thing to do.

[Right_in_Virginia]

[txradioguy]

Instead of killing our economy with destructive tariffs...how about recoming their permanent most favored nation status.

That was a Clinton era move as a way to thank them for all of the campaign cash given to him for the 1996 election.

That's how you hurt China and their unfair business practices with the U.S. 

[edpc]

What if I told you Trump is a fraud who, in his great negotiations, purchased Chinese steel for his buildings and took steps to conceal it?

[txradioguy]

Anyone who thinks this is the first time the US has ever fought back in a trade war has a knowledge of history that would fit on the head of a pin.

[edpc]

Anyone who thinks this is the first time the US has ever fought back in a trade war has a knowledge of history that would fit on the head of a pin.

Not even that long ago.  The 2002 imported steel tariffs (interestingly enough, signed on March 5th) were higher at 30%.

[txradioguy]

Not even that long ago.  The 2002 imported steel tariffs (interestingly enough, signed on March 5th) were higher at 30%.

History repeating itself.

[Right_in_Virginia]

What if I told you Trump is a fraud who, in his great negotiations, purchased Chinese steel for his buildings and took steps to conceal it?

I'd say you're stretching the facts to fit your political worldview.

Having said this, it sounds like he made the best decision for his private sector business.  Now he'll make the best decisions for his new business:  the American worker.   

[Concerned]

I'd say you're stretching the facts to fit your political worldview.

Having said this, it sounds like he made the best decision for his private sector business.  Now he'll make the best decisions for his new business:  the American worker.   

Helping relatively few American workers while likely hurting many more others.  In other words, picking winners and losers just like Obama did (and many of us criticized him over).  From Fox News:

Trump last week said he would impose tariffs on imported steel to protect a U.S. industry that employs about 140,000 Americans. Still, analysts say that by raising the price of steel, those same tariffs stand to hurt a far larger group of U.S. workers: the 6.5 million who work in industries that buy steel — from automakers to aircraft manufacturers to suppliers of building materials.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/04/as-tariff-battle-heats-up-trump-says-us-steel-aluminum-industries-dead.html

[edpc]

I'd say you're stretching the facts to fit your political worldview.

What about the meme you posted that's patently false?  Stretching facts?  Sure.  They're irritating facts, especially for the 'it only matters what Trump does' crowd. 

Trump opted to purchase his steel and aluminum from Chinese manufacturers rather than United States corporations based in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin.

****************************

Of Trump’s last three construction projects, the first to use Chinese steel was Trump International Hotel Las Vegas, which opened in 2008. That the manufacturer is from China is not immediately evident; this fact is hidden within a chain of various corporate entities, including holding companies registered in the British Virgin Islands. That micro-state is a popular site for obscure off-shore entities that exist only on legal documents, limiting the potential liability of real businesses while obscuring their true owners.

According to government documents, the Chinese entity chosen by Trump to provide steel for the Las Vegas property is a holding company called Ossen Innovation Co. Ltd.–formerly known as Ultra Glory International Ltd. That British Virgin Islands entity in turn owns a second holding company called Ossen Innovation Materials Group Ltd., which, through a complex legal arrangement, indirectly owns Ossen Innovation Materials Co. Ltd., and through it, Ossen (Jiujiang) Steel Wire & Cable Co. Ltd., the operating business located in Shanghai. With such layers upon layers of corporate shells and divisions, builders like Trump can purchase their steel from less-expensive Chinese suppliers without the ultimate supplier being readily apparent. That steel was then used in the construction of the Las Vegas property.

***************************

Another recent Trump building that has used metal from China is Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago, which opened in 2009.

****************************

The building required tons of aluminum and Trump elected not to purchase the metal from Alcoa or any other similar American producer, but instead turn to a subsidiary of a Chinese aluminum manufacturer. Because American businesses have been turning to cheaper aluminum from overseas, the industry is collapsing. For example, in just the last two years, more than half of the country’s aluminum smelters in states like Ohio, West Virginia and Texas have closed as a result of being undercut on price by competition from overseas.


http://www.newsweek.com/how-donald-trump-ditched-us-steel-workers-china-505717

Having said this, it sounds like he made the best decision for his private sector business.  Now he'll make the best decisions for his new business:  the American worker.   

No, it actually sounds like he's duplicitous and makes decisions he believes will be solely to his benefit, others be damned.

[Concerned]

Even Trump supporters and former Trump advisors (Larry Kudlow and Stephen Moore) are pointing out how many more US workers are likely to be hurt by these tariffs than helped.

But even if tariffs save every one of the 140,000 or so steel jobs in America, it puts at risk 5 million manufacturing and related jobs in industries that use steel. These producers now have to compete in hyper-competitive international markets using steel that is 20 percent above the world price and aluminum that is 7 to 10 percent above the price paid by our foreign rivals.

In other words, steel and aluminum may win in the short term, but steel and aluminum users and consumers will lose. In fact, tariff hikes are really tax hikes.

‎ Some of those 5 million jobs will be put in harm's way. And if they sell less to foreigners, the trade deficit goes up, not down.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/03/kudlow-mr-president-tariffs-are-really-tax-hikes.html

[endicom]

“When you look at who produces the steel in the world, 50 percent of the steel produced in the world comes from China. The United States is the largest importer of the steel,” Manchin said.  “Connect the dots. Even though they’re saying it might not come directly from China, it comes ... through other countries.”

Canada sells more than 80% of its steel to the US. But how much of that steel is truly made in Canada?

Canadian raw materials are shipped to China to be made into steel and then shipped back to Canada.

Manchin is telling us something about what Trump's proposals are really about.

[Right_in_Virginia]

The quote in post #12 is not from me, but from the article @endicom was quoting.

[aligncare]

I'd say you're stretching the facts to fit your political worldview.

Having said this, it sounds like he made the best decision for his private sector business.  Now he'll make the best decisions for his new business:  the American worker.   

 

Exactly!

Despite what the doubters say, Donald Trump is not politically motivated. Republican and democrat ideological issues are only tangential considerations in his desire to do the right things, consistent with the constitution, for achieving America’s successful return to economic greatness.

[Right_in_Virginia]

As I said .... everything must fit your "hate the President" raison d'être. 

Thanks for proving my point.

[endicom]

The quote in post #12 is not from me, but from the article @endicom was quoting.

I thought that would be understood. To anyone having read what you posted, anyway.

[endicom]

No, it actually sounds like he's duplicitous and makes decisions he believes will be solely to his benefit, others be damned.

Competition forces such decisions. Your outputs can't be competitive when your inputs are at a premium to your competitors.

Look to government policy as causing such decisions.

[edpc]

As I said .... everything must fit your "hate the President" raison d'être. 

Thanks for proving my point.

It’s either true, or it’s not.  In this case, there’s documentation to back it.  You're willing to ignore things to maintain your illusion d’optique about the man.

Thanks for proving my point.

[txradioguy]

What about the meme you posted that's patently false?  Stretching facts?  Sure.  They're irritating facts, especially for the 'it only matters what Trump does' crowd. 

Trump opted to purchase his steel and aluminum from Chinese manufacturers rather than United States corporations based in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin.

****************************

Of Trump’s last three construction projects, the first to use Chinese steel was Trump International Hotel Las Vegas, which opened in 2008. That the manufacturer is from China is not immediately evident; this fact is hidden within a chain of various corporate entities, including holding companies registered in the British Virgin Islands. That micro-state is a popular site for obscure off-shore entities that exist only on legal documents, limiting the potential liability of real businesses while obscuring their true owners.

According to government documents, the Chinese entity chosen by Trump to provide steel for the Las Vegas property is a holding company called Ossen Innovation Co. Ltd.–formerly known as Ultra Glory International Ltd. That British Virgin Islands entity in turn owns a second holding company called Ossen Innovation Materials Group Ltd., which, through a complex legal arrangement, indirectly owns Ossen Innovation Materials Co. Ltd., and through it, Ossen (Jiujiang) Steel Wire & Cable Co. Ltd., the operating business located in Shanghai. With such layers upon layers of corporate shells and divisions, builders like Trump can purchase their steel from less-expensive Chinese suppliers without the ultimate supplier being readily apparent. That steel was then used in the construction of the Las Vegas property.

***************************

Another recent Trump building that has used metal from China is Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago, which opened in 2009.

****************************

The building required tons of aluminum and Trump elected not to purchase the metal from Alcoa or any other similar American producer, but instead turn to a subsidiary of a Chinese aluminum manufacturer. Because American businesses have been turning to cheaper aluminum from overseas, the industry is collapsing. For example, in just the last two years, more than half of the country’s aluminum smelters in states like Ohio, West Virginia and Texas have closed as a result of being undercut on price by competition from overseas.


http://www.newsweek.com/how-donald-trump-ditched-us-steel-workers-china-505717



No, it actually sounds like he's duplicitous and makes decisions he believes will be solely to his benefit, others be damned.

Guess some people don't need facts when they have...MAGA!!! /s

[jpsb]

As I said .... everything must fit your "hate the President" raison d'être. 

Thanks for proving my point.

@Right_in_Virginia I don't think there is a bigger Trump hater here then @edpc.

China practices dumping. What dumping does is put competitors out of business, once the
competitors are out of business then China controls the market. Right now China produces
over half of the worlds steel. I'd say China has been very successful at taking over the steel
making business. But since steel is a vital national resource, the USA must maintain the capacity
to produce it. A steel tariff will help the USA keep it's ability to produce it's own steel. 

Back in the day, when schools educated young people, we all knew the importance of being able
to domestically produce stuff that was vital to the survival of the country. Even if that meant
we has to pay a little more for a can of soda.

[jpsb]

Guess some people don't need facts when they have...MAGA!!! /s

As a business man, competing against other business men, Trump would be crazy to pay more
for the materials used in his projects then his competitors used in their. This is simple common
sense which apparently is very uncommon with the NeverTrumpers.

[edpc]

@Right_in_Virginia I don't think there is a bigger Trump hater here then @edpc.

China practices dumping. What dumping does is put competitors out of business, once the
competitors are out of business then China controls the market. Right now China produces
over half of the worlds steel. I'd say China has been very successful at taking over the steel
making business. But since steel is a vital national resource, the USA must maintain the capacity
to produce it. A steel tariff will help the USA keep it's ability to produce it's own steel. 

Back in the day, when schools educated young people, we all knew the importance of being able
to domestically produce stuff that was vital to the survival of the country. Even if that meant
we has to pay a little more for a can of soda.

There are much bigger 'haters' than me in physical stature, political philosophy, and posting volume.  However, that's an easy term to throw around when someone calls out BS.

China is able to dump products on the market for a number of reasons.  Raw materials are cheaply and readily available.  They don't have unions negotiating wages and lifetime benefits, regardless of output or purchase.  Even if they had reasonable environmental regulations, they notoriously ignore them at the expense of safety, health, and lives.

They have 3X our population under authoritarian rule and don't give a damn about them or their working and living conditions.  If you think a tariff is going to level that playing field, you're dreaming.

P.S.  Your formatting is an eyesore.

[jpsb]

There are much bigger 'haters' than me in physical stature, political philosophy, and posting volume.  However, that's an easy term to throw around when someone calls out BS.

China is able to dump products on the market for a number of reasons.  Raw materials are cheaply and readily available.  They don't have unions negotiating wages and lifetime benefits, regardless of output or purchase.  Even if they had reasonable environmental regulations, they notoriously ignore them at the expense of safety, health, and lives.

They have 3X our population under authoritarian rule and don't give a damn about them or their working and living conditions.  If you think a tariff is going to level that playing field, you're dreaming.

P.S.  Your formatting is an eyesore.

The Chicken Littles Are Hammering Trump on Trade, but Charles Payne's Truth Bombs Blow Their Theories to Smithereens


I don't like to use the left, right scroll to read text. I figure I am not alone in that, so I format so
one does not need to scroll to read my comments. I with more posters did so too. 

[edpc]

The Chicken Littles Are Hammering Trump on Trade, but Charles Payne's Truth Bombs Blow Their Theories to Smithereens

The emails between Payne and Hughes were much more interesting than this article and every bit as relevant to what I said previously about China's production practices.

I with more posters did so too.

Well said.