Author Topic: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'  (Read 12574 times)

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #250 on: March 01, 2018, 09:35:16 pm »
...Besides I’ve been right about Donald Trump nearly every time and you have been wrong about Donald Trump nearly every time. I think I have the better track record.

@aligncare

It's not about being right or wrong,it's about protecting the party from a outsider that hasn't kissed the right rings! What if he really does do well and is re-elected? How can the alleged Republican Party survive such a thing? What will all the little Bushes and Cruz's do with themselves? Will they have to get real jobs?

WHERE is your sense of order?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #251 on: March 01, 2018, 09:37:21 pm »

Nobody is going to mistake me for a Trump fan.  I’ll criticize the hell out of him, but I’ll never go this far to actively oppose him, unless he truly does something unmistakably impeachable. 

From yesterday.......

”I’m absolutist on Trump,” Kristol told me. “He shouldn’t be president. We should limit the damage he can do as president. And we should try as hard as we can to prevent him from being renominated or reelected.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exile-bill-kristol-republican-resister-chief-100007991.html

@edpc

If Bill "Commie" Kristol hates and fears him,it makes me want to start a "Trump in 2020 Fund". 
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #252 on: March 01, 2018, 09:38:43 pm »
Yeah Kristol is out there on his own little extremist island.

@txradioguy

Maybe I am wrong,but he sounds just like you to me.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #253 on: March 01, 2018, 09:43:31 pm »
Here is a fun challenge, find the past time something like this actually happened. The court and law enforcement system is designed to protect itself.

@AbaraXas

You don't think this would happen on a daily basis if the police were to start just taking the word of a caller to detain someone and confiscate their weapons without a court order?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #254 on: March 01, 2018, 09:45:57 pm »
Thanks for clarifying.  I suspected there was more than just "when someone is reported to the police to be acting crazy,you take his or her weapons away from them..."

Does judge sign anything like they would for a search warrant?  Or is it only the police and the doctor working together for a legal seizure of your weapons?

@thackney

A judge HAS to sign a court order to confiscate someone's weapons if they haven't been used in a crime,and it HAS to state on the court order why and what authorization was used. Hell,they have to do that to confiscate someone's car,and we have no Constitutional right to own a car.
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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #255 on: March 01, 2018, 09:53:14 pm »
End result is the same.  The lawful gun owner who did nothing wrong doesn't get his weapons back until the months or years of litigation is over with.

And the lawful owner is the only poor sap with any skin in the game.  The cop is not held to account, and the snitch isn't either.  He's free to "SWAT" somebody else.
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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #256 on: March 01, 2018, 09:56:04 pm »
@thackney

A judge HAS to sign a court order to confiscate someone's weapons if they haven't been used in a crime,and it HAS to state on the court order why and what authorization was used. Hell,they have to do that to confiscate someone's car,and we have no Constitutional right to own a car.

Sounds great, which throws Trump's comments at the top of thread into stark relief.  He says he wants to go straight to confiscation, then backfill the court stuff later.  The crap ain't gonna fly.  Never mind the 2nd Amendment, what about the 4th and 5th?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #257 on: March 01, 2018, 10:01:05 pm »
@thackney

A judge HAS to sign a court order to confiscate someone's weapons if they haven't been used in a crime,and it HAS to state on the court order why and what authorization was used. Hell,they have to do that to confiscate someone's car,and we have no Constitutional right to own a car.

Hey Pete, CAF.  The instrument Sessions wants to expand already nullifies the legal requirement you cited.

Civil Asset Forfeiture.

No court order is needed anymore to confiscate property if the police 'think' what you own or possess was obtained by illicit means such as trafficking.  It's become an industry.  And no - the victims do not get their stuff or cash back.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline thackney

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #258 on: March 01, 2018, 10:03:07 pm »
@thackney

A judge HAS to sign a court order to confiscate someone's weapons if they haven't been used in a crime,and it HAS to state on the court order why and what authorization was used. Hell,they have to do that to confiscate someone's car,and we have no Constitutional right to own a car.

That sounds like due process happening before the taking of weapons.  I appreciate the confirmation.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #259 on: March 01, 2018, 10:05:13 pm »
@txradioguy
....

What the HELL is the matter with you people? Are you so in love with the alleged Republican Party Usual Suspects for President that you have lost every bit of common sense? Up to this date Trump has been the most conservative president since Reagan,and all you clowns have done since day 1 is scream about "he's just like Hillary and Obama! WAAAAH! WAAAAH! WAAAH!"

Wow, Pete, that's quite a screed.  Speaking for myself, I'm not in love with the Republican party and never have been.  As for "Up to this date Trump has been the most conservative president since Reagan" the problem is that now he left that behind in the rear view mirror and did a screeching left turn on two tires.  Remember, this thread is about Trump saying "'Take the guns first, go through due process second'".  Maybe you find that conservative and defensible, but I sure as hell don't.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #260 on: March 01, 2018, 10:07:48 pm »
Just the complete normality of it, but again its a class of cultures  ^-^


@Stevensr123
Oh, I see then... Carry on.
 :beer:


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1. Actually enforce the policies already made

That's right.

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2. increase mental health support

Good God, y'all! That's all we need is more shrinks! Shrinks are in large part responsible for the problem! Rather, largely discard the opinions of modern psychiatry, and teach singular morality, personal responsibility and self-reliance, and duty and honor before God - Out in the sticks, that's how it is,  in the last beating heartland of this nation... And there are nowhere near the problems found in the cancerous cities that spew liberal claptrap largely defined by shrinks.

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3. More protection of schools -  it astounds me given the current predicament of so many losers wanting to shoot up schools, that their isn't law enforcement at every single school in america.

Largely impossible. They are already run like prisons. The problem with schools is their abrogation of the right of self defense. 'gun-free-zones' make them a soft target.

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4. Make gun education mandatory in schools - teach kids about them, explain that they are not toys, they are tools that have immense power and they are not to be taken lightly and ingrain in them the proper ways of handling them and the laws surrounding them

That's right, and how it used to be.

 :beer:

Offline edpc

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #261 on: March 01, 2018, 10:17:16 pm »
End result is the same.  The lawful gun owner who did nothing wrong doesn't get his weapons back until the months or years of litigation is over with.


! No longer available


During the townhall, Sheriff Israel, who has no credibility on red flags, discusses what he wants from an enhanced Baker Act.  It’s similar to what Trump said in his meeting.  The fact they’re on the same page with this is disgraceful.  You can see Israel’s comments on it beginning at the 1:13:45 mark.  Later in the discussion, he goes on to say how the person would not get the weapons back until they’ve completed some sort of rehabilitation process.  That could be any length of time - months or years, as you said.  Most likely, it would be permanent. They just don’t want to say it.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #262 on: March 01, 2018, 10:19:22 pm »
‘Was it Wilde or Shaw?’ The answer appears to be: both. In The Canterville Ghost (1887), Wilde wrote: ‘We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language’. However, the 1951 Treasury of Humorous Quotations (Esar & Bentley) quotes Shaw as saying: ‘England and America are two countries separated by the same language’, but without giving a source. The quote had earlier been attributed to Shaw in Reader’s Digest (November 1942).

Thanks for that, I had always thought it was Wilde.

Offline WingNot

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #263 on: March 01, 2018, 10:24:20 pm »
Thanks for that, I had always thought it was Wilde.

AS you know we are an erudite lot, and we hide it well!

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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #264 on: March 01, 2018, 10:27:46 pm »
AS you know we are an erudite lot, and we hide it well!

Were just Renaissance men, I supposed, shade tree fix it guys.
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Offline edpc

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #265 on: March 01, 2018, 10:28:11 pm »
Thanks for that, I had always thought it was Wilde.


Wilde did say it first, so I guess he should probably get top billing.  Besides, I can’t stand Shaw, due to his stances on socialism and eugenics.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #266 on: March 01, 2018, 10:29:23 pm »
@AbaraXas

So Pete sues the pants off the local PD and the snitch,and ends up owning everything the snitch had,sells it,and uses the money to buy a few new Class 3 MG's.

...which will later be confiscated through CAF, without due process......

Offline WingNot

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #267 on: March 01, 2018, 10:37:19 pm »
Were just Renaissance men, I supposed, shade tree fix it guys.
We know a little bit about a whole lot, and a whole lot about a little bit.

LOL.. A jack of all trades and a master of none!   888high58888
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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #268 on: March 01, 2018, 10:40:44 pm »
Wow, Pete, that's quite a screed.  Speaking for myself, I'm not in love with the Republican party and never have been.  As for "Up to this date Trump has been the most conservative president since Reagan" the problem is that now he left that behind in the rear view mirror and did a screeching left turn on two tires.  Remember, this thread is about Trump saying "'Take the guns first, go through due process second'".  Maybe you find that conservative and defensible, but I sure as hell don't.

@Sanguine

Me neither.  I've been avoiding this thread like the plague until this morning, and we are way far away from where this discussion started.  Trump took a really dumb stand on the application of due process, and he's yet to walk that back.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #269 on: March 01, 2018, 11:19:14 pm »
Worth the price of admission just to see @sneakypete come over and straighten folks out – in successive order!  :silly:

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #270 on: March 01, 2018, 11:20:26 pm »
Worth the price of admission just to see @sneakypete come over and straighten folks out – in successive order!  :silly:

I guess you're getting what you paid for. 

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #271 on: March 01, 2018, 11:54:47 pm »
I guess you're getting what you paid for.

All 2 cents worth.
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Offline MeshugeMikey

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #272 on: March 01, 2018, 11:58:24 pm »
 

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #273 on: March 02, 2018, 12:25:20 am »
Hey Pete, CAF.  The instrument Sessions wants to expand already nullifies the legal requirement you cited.

Civil Asset Forfeiture.

No court order is needed anymore to confiscate property if the police 'think' what you own or possess was obtained by illicit means such as trafficking.  It's become an industry.  And no - the victims do not get their stuff or cash back.

@INVAR

I have no idea what Sessions wants to do,but he is going to be limited by what Trump,Congress,and the US Constitution ALLOW him to do.

The asset seizure laws due to drug trafficking seem reasonable on one hand,because you are not supposed to be able to profit from crime. On the other hand and both feet,anybody that tries to tell you the cops haven't abused the HELL out of that authority right up PAST the point they are legally STEALING is either a liar or a fool.

And it won't stop until Congress starts slapping hands and putting judges and LEO's on trial for theft and abuse of power.
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #274 on: March 02, 2018, 12:26:42 am »
@INVAR

I have no idea what Sessions wants to do,but he is going to be limited by what Trump,Congress,and the US Constitution ALLOW him to do.

The asset seizure laws due to drug trafficking seem reasonable on one hand,because you are not supposed to be able to profit from crime. On the other hand and both feet,anybody that tries to tell you the cops haven't abused the HELL out of that authority right up PAST the point they are legally STEALING is either a liar or a fool.

And it won't stop until Congress starts slapping hands and putting judges and LEO's on trial for theft and abuse of power.

I'm sure that'll happen any minute now...