Author Topic: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'  (Read 12584 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #200 on: March 01, 2018, 07:22:03 pm »

Nobody is going to mistake me for a Trump fan.  I’ll criticize the hell out of him, but I’ll never go this far to actively oppose him, unless he truly does something unmistakably impeachable. 

From yesterday.......

”I’m absolutist on Trump,” Kristol told me. “He shouldn’t be president. We should limit the damage he can do as president. And we should try as hard as we can to prevent him from being renominated or reelected.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exile-bill-kristol-republican-resister-chief-100007991.html

Yeah Kristol is out there on his own little extremist island.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #201 on: March 01, 2018, 07:24:43 pm »
Speaking as an outsider (English)

I find Americans gun obsession bizarre (mainly because the British culture isn't a gun culture).

HOWEVER this whole banning semi-autos (or what ever they are called) seems a bit stupid to me.

Most gun deaths involve hand guns (I think hand guns kill 19x more people compared to any other weapon over in america - although correct me if I'm wrong).

So what is the point?

Greater protection of schools and other places will sniff this mass killing out.

Another thing is your 2nd amendment - again I don't really think your gun culture is a good thing (over here the biggest problem is knife crime - which frankly is a far better compared to having your head blown off from a distance, at least I have the chance to run away lol)

HOWEVER its your way of life and i respect that, and the 2nd amendment protects your rights, it seems like these politicians want to have double standards. stop trying to chip away at the 2nd amendment, get rid of it if THE PEOPLE want to, if they don't , stop abusing it!

Well said.

One question.  Do you or your government for that matter not see the correlation in the fact people aren't allowed to own guns and the high rate of knife crimes?  And that when you take one form of killing away from a criminal they will just find another?

If England placed the same kind of ban on knives tomorrow that they have on guns...then you'd see an increase in murder by blunt force trauma...with the most used weapon being a bat or a club.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #202 on: March 01, 2018, 07:27:39 pm »
Speaking as an outsider (English)

I find Americans gun obsession bizarre (mainly because the British culture isn't a gun culture).

HOWEVER this whole banning semi-autos (or what ever they are called) seems a bit stupid to me.

Most gun deaths involve hand guns (I think hand guns kill 19x more people compared to any other weapon over in america - although correct me if I'm wrong).

So what is the point?

Greater protection of schools and other places will sniff this mass killing out.

Another thing is your 2nd amendment - again I don't really think your gun culture is a good thing (over here the biggest problem is knife crime - which frankly is a far better compared to having your head blown off from a distance, at least I have the chance to run away lol)

HOWEVER its your way of life and i respect that, and the 2nd amendment protects your rights, it seems like these politicians want to have double standards. stop trying to chip away at the 2nd amendment, get rid of it if THE PEOPLE want to, if they don't , stop abusing it!

Dead by a knife is still dead.  I prefer to be able to defend myself.

Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #203 on: March 01, 2018, 07:30:02 pm »
Speaking as an outsider (English)

I find Americans gun obsession bizarre (mainly because the British culture isn't a gun culture).

HOWEVER this whole banning semi-autos (or what ever they are called) seems a bit stupid to me.

Most gun deaths involve hand guns (I think hand guns kill 19x more people compared to any other weapon over in america - although correct me if I'm wrong).

So what is the point?

Greater protection of schools and other places will sniff this mass killing out.

Another thing is your 2nd amendment - again I don't really think your gun culture is a good thing (over here the biggest problem is knife crime - which frankly is a far better compared to having your head blown off from a distance, at least I have the chance to run away lol)

HOWEVER its your way of life and i respect that, and the 2nd amendment protects your rights, it seems like these politicians want to have double standards. stop trying to chip away at the 2nd amendment, get rid of it if THE PEOPLE want to, if they don't , stop abusing it!

Anecdotal to be sure, but the 2 friends of mine, who didn't know one another, came here from England. Once both acquired legal status, guess where they went?
To the local gun store.

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #204 on: March 01, 2018, 07:34:38 pm »
@Stevensr123 violent, personal crime is much higher in England than here.  Maybe y'all are just used to being victimized?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 07:35:20 pm by Sanguine »

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #205 on: March 01, 2018, 07:35:19 pm »
Well, when I find a president I like I stick with him. I don’t go off half cocked every time he throws out a shiny object with which to blind his political opponents. As a supporter of the NRA, I trust him enough not to take any action that would infringe on 2A. That’s how confident I am in his respect for the constitution.

Keep tossing those steps up higher there pal.  Your form is impeccable.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #206 on: March 01, 2018, 07:37:13 pm »
@Stevensr123 , I do not mean to be insulting by asking this, but you know the history of why we have a 2nd amendment?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 07:37:53 pm by GrouchoTex »

Offline WingNot

  • Resident TBR Curmudgeon
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,659
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #207 on: March 01, 2018, 07:37:45 pm »
Speaking as an outsider (English)



Yo Brit,  If you see our old Mate EC, tell him we said "Hey"

Peace Out!
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,941
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #208 on: March 01, 2018, 07:38:15 pm »
Speaking as an outsider (English)

I find Americans gun obsession bizarre (mainly because the British culture isn't a gun culture).

@Stevensr123
You have to understand.  There are two economies in this. One is the cities, and the other, basically everywhere else. Most of the USA is farm, ranch, and wildlands.

While primarily instituted as a guard against tyranny and for self-defense in the 2nd amendment, The vast majority of us need guns for predator control and hunting. Along with that comes sport shooting, which is glorified target practice. That is the basis of gun culture nearly nationwide.

In the city that culture is bastardized into self-defense (where allowed) and criminal use by gangs and robbers.

Quote
Most gun deaths involve hand guns (I think hand guns kill 19x more people compared to any other weapon over in america - although correct me if I'm wrong).


More than that, take suicides out of the picture, and something like 60% of gun deaths go away. Yes, they are counting suicides in gun violence. Then take away gang violence (largely in city slums), and the numbers drop to a nearly negligent number.

Believe me, for the vast majority of this country, guns are a good thing, and a necessary part of country living.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #209 on: March 01, 2018, 07:40:30 pm »
Speaking as an outsider (English)

I find Americans gun obsession bizarre (mainly because the British culture isn't a gun culture).

We do not expect you to understand it Steven.

However, the Japanese in WWII did understand it, and because of it - would not even entertain the idea of an invasion because as Yamamoto noted: "There will be a gun behind every blade of grass".

I think it is safe to say that had Hitler decided to forestall invading Russia for invading your country - I doubt the Nazis would have had the same reservations about doing so as the Japanese had about us.

You can think our gun culture bizarre, but our enemies both foreign and domestic understand that attempting to subjugate us by force is going to end in disaster for them.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,540
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #210 on: March 01, 2018, 07:42:22 pm »
...Besides I’ve been right about Donald Trump nearly every time and you have been wrong about Donald Trump nearly every time. I think I have the better track record.

@aligncare

Yeah, and I am sure you wholeheartedly support your POTUS okay with that 50 cent fuel tax too huh?.  You are hilarious.

Face facts...  you have "aligned" yourself with a NY liberal.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 07:47:32 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #211 on: March 01, 2018, 07:42:52 pm »

Of course that is what he was saying. But the kneejerk people here won't listen to reason. They'll just dismiss common sense by saying that you are a crazy Trump supporter, who will support him no matter what.


That kid in FL should have had his guns confiscated and he should have been locked up for evaluation. Anyone who can't see that is delusional and probably is a member of Alex Jones' website.

Kneejerk, my ass!   Bottom line.... there was a correct way to say what you just said.  What Trump said wasn't 'it'.  Every time he opens his mouth and utters one of these "incorrectly stated" (outrageous) comments, he only fuels the leftist fires against him and against America.  You honestly can't (won't) see that?
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline goatprairie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,956
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #212 on: March 01, 2018, 07:44:36 pm »
Speaking as an outsider (English)

I find Americans gun obsession bizarre (mainly because the British culture isn't a gun culture).

HOWEVER this whole banning semi-autos (or what ever they are called) seems a bit stupid to me.

Most gun deaths involve hand guns (I think hand guns kill 19x more people compared to any other weapon over in america - although correct me if I'm wrong).

So what is the point?

Greater protection of schools and other places will sniff this mass killing out.

Another thing is your 2nd amendment - again I don't really think your gun culture is a good thing (over here the biggest problem is knife crime - which frankly is a far better compared to having your head blown off from a distance, at least I have the chance to run away lol)

HOWEVER its your way of life and i respect that, and the 2nd amendment protects your rights, it seems like these politicians want to have double standards. stop trying to chip away at the 2nd amendment, get rid of it if THE PEOPLE want to, if they don't , stop abusing it!
Well, my wife was born and raised in England. When I first met her, she was very anti-gun and a lot more liberal. And now after being with me for the last seventeen years,  she is now a lot more conservative and a lot more pro-gun. To the point of urging me to join the NRA. Which I just did this morning.
Is there an innate difference between Americans and Britishers or Europeans? Maybe.  But most Americans don't look at government the way Brits and Euros do.  Especially conservatives.
For conservatives government is something to be tolerated as a necessary evil. The threat of governmental tyranny is always in the back of the minds of most conservatives.
Talking to my Brit in-laws, they're very nice people, and they're not fond of Europeans. But they're very trusting of their government doing right by them.
Personally, I don't like the way your government is going with people being thrown into prison for "hate speech crimes" and the placement and toleration of unassimilable Muslims in your country. Look at the demographics.
Once you lose liberty, it's awfully hard to get it back.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #213 on: March 01, 2018, 07:44:44 pm »
Kneejerk, my ass!   Bottom line.... there was a correct way to say what you just said.  What Trump said wasn't 'it'.  Every time he opens his mouth and utters one of these "incorrectly stated" (outrageous) comments, he only fuels the leftist fires against him and against America.  You honestly can't (won't) see that?

True Believers cannot.

It's why I call it the Jim Jones effect.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Stevensr123

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 166
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #214 on: March 01, 2018, 07:46:14 pm »
@Stevensr123 violent, personal crime is much higher in England than here.  Maybe y'all are just used to being victimized?
Pretty sure that has been debunked.

Apparently its because of the way the FBI class violent crime, compared to the UK police.


"The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a ‘violent crime’ as one of four specific offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault." By contrast, "the British definition includes all ‘crimes against the person"

That said, I wasn't trying to have a **** measuring contest   ^-^ just giving in  my two cents.



Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,540
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #215 on: March 01, 2018, 07:50:19 pm »
Pretty sure that has been debunked.

Apparently its because of the way the FBI class violent crime, compared to the UK police.


"The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a ‘violent crime’ as one of four specific offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault." By contrast, "the British definition includes all ‘crimes against the person"

That said, I wasn't trying to have a **** measuring contest   ^-^ just giving in  my two cents.

The UK doesn't differentiate their crime stats?  So a $100 theft is counted the same as murder?
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #216 on: March 01, 2018, 07:50:33 pm »
Speaking as an outsider (English)

I find Americans gun obsession bizarre (mainly because the British culture isn't a gun culture).

HOWEVER this whole banning semi-autos (or what ever they are called) seems a bit stupid to me.

Most gun deaths involve hand guns (I think hand guns kill 19x more people compared to any other weapon over in america - although correct me if I'm wrong).

So what is the point?

Greater protection of schools and other places will sniff this mass killing out.

Another thing is your 2nd amendment - again I don't really think your gun culture is a good thing (over here the biggest problem is knife crime - which frankly is a far better compared to having your head blown off from a distance, at least I have the chance to run away lol)

HOWEVER its your way of life and i respect that, and the 2nd amendment protects your rights, it seems like these politicians want to have double standards. stop trying to chip away at the 2nd amendment, get rid of it if THE PEOPLE want to, if they don't , stop abusing it!

No... the British culture isn't a gun culture.... NOW.   But they didn't call them the "Bloody British" (they loved them some beheadings events...hey...there was no American Idol, after all) for nothing. 

And the term "Imperialist" really does apply to what British culture used to consist of...(unlike how some try to label America with the term)... since they had their fingers in every nation's pie. 

Now, however, Britain is just another socialist (communist w/a smiley face) nation.... currently involved in 'bending over' for the invading Muslim hordes.....

that loves to look down their noses at the stepchild nation that kicked their ass once....lol.

Just sayin....
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #217 on: March 01, 2018, 07:54:12 pm »
Speaking as an outsider (English)

I find Americans gun obsession bizarre (mainly because the British culture isn't a gun culture).


It’s ingrained.  Mostly, it stems from a time when the country was founded and the resistance to King George III by armed citizens.  Later, you had westward expansion where arms kept you fed and protected.  Until the post WWII infrastructure expansion, most of the US was rural and not easily accessible by today’s standards.  A firearm was a ubiquitous tool in American life.  Once the Cold War and nuclear threats arose, it was an essential part of civil defense.  Now that we’re more ‘civilized,’ with a professional volunteer armed forces, and connection with the rest of the world, some might say we no longer need them.  However, expanding government influence and intrusion into modern life has brought us back to resistance - this time to the threat of domestic tyranny.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #218 on: March 01, 2018, 07:54:49 pm »
Pretty sure that has been debunked.

Apparently its because of the way the FBI class violent crime, compared to the UK police.


"The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a ‘violent crime’ as one of four specific offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault." By contrast, "the British definition includes all ‘crimes against the person"

That said, I wasn't trying to have a **** measuring contest   ^-^ just giving in  my two cents.

Once you know this, Bier wrote, "it becomes clear how misleading it is to compare rates of violent crime in the U.S. and the U.K. You’re simply comparing two different sets of crimes."

We thought Bier’s points were reasonable, so we tried to replicate his approach. We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.)

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales, but the discrepancy is not anywhere near as wide as the one cited in the meme.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/24/blog-posting/social-media-post-says-uk-has-far-higher-violent-c/
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #219 on: March 01, 2018, 07:54:53 pm »
Pretty sure that has been debunked.


Myth: Britain has strict gun control and thus a low crime rate

Fact: The United Kingdom has always had a lower homicide rate than the United States, even when British citizens could legally buy machine guns (Briton’s modern era of gun control did not ramp up until the 1960s). The difference is cultural, not legal.

Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent crime – has risen.

Fact: Ironically, firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned. 17

Fact: Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest overall crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United States (2034 vs. 446 per 100,000 population). 18

Fact: 67% of British residents surveyed believed that “As a result of gun and knife crime [rising], the area I live in is not as safe as it was five years ago.” 19

Fact: U.K. street robberies soared 28% in 2001. Violent crime was up 11%, murders up 4%, and rapes were up 14%. 20

Fact: This trend continued in the U.K in 2004 with a 10% increase in street crime, 8% increase in muggings, and a 22% increase in robberies.

Fact: In 1919, before it had any gun control, the U.K. had a homicide rate that was 8% of the U.S. rate. By 1986, and after enacting significant gun control, the rate was 9% – practically unchanged. 21

Fact: “… [There is] nothing in the statistics for England and Wales to suggest that either the stricter controls on handguns prior to 1997 or the ban imposed since have controlled access to such firearms by criminals.” 22

Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is fundamentally flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there. 23 To make matters worse, British law enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely lower crime figures, in part to preserve tourism. 24

Fact: An ongoing parliamentary inquiry in Britain into the growing number of black market weapons has concluded that there are more than three million illegally held firearms in circulation – double the number believed to have been held 10 years ago – and that criminals are more willing than ever to use them. One in three criminals under the age of 25 possesses or has access to a firearm. 25

British Offenses in 2000
Offense category
Increase from pre-ban

Armed Robbery
170.1%

Kidnapping/abduction
144.0%

Assault
130.9%

Attempted murder
117.6%

Sexual assault
112.6%

Fact: Handgun homicides in England and Wales reached an all-time high in 2000, years after a virtual ban on private handgun ownership. More than 3,000 crimes involving handguns were recorded in 1999-2000, including 42 homicides, 310 cases of attempted murder, 2,561 robberies and 204 burglaries. 26

Fact: Handguns were used in 3,685 British offenses in 2000 compared with 2,648 in 1997, an increase of 40%. 27 It is interesting to note:

Of the 20 areas with the lowest number of legal firearms, 10 had an above average level of “gun crime.”

Of the 20 areas with the highest levels of legal guns, only 2 had armed crime levels above the average.

Fact: Between 1997 and 1999, there were 429 murders in London, the highest two-year figure for more than 10 years – nearly two-thirds of those involved firearms – in a country that has virtually banned private firearm ownership. 28

Fact: Over the last century, the British crime rate was largely unchanged. In the late nineteenth century, the per capita homicide rate in Britain was between 1.0 and 1.5 per 100,000. 29 In the late twentieth century, after a near ban on gun ownership, the homicide rate is around 1.4. 30 This implies that the homicide rate did not vary with either the level of gun control or gun availability.

Fact: The U.K. has strict gun control and a rising homicide rate of 1.4 per 100,000. Switzerland has the highest per capita firearm ownership rate on the planet (all males age 20 to 42 are required to keep rifles or pistols at home) and has a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000. To date, there has never been a schoolyard massacre in Switzerland. 31

Fact: “… the scale of gun crime in the capital [London] has forced senior officers to set up a specialist unit to deal with … shootings.” 32

Myth: Gun bans elsewhere work

Fact: Though illegal, side-street gun makers thrive in the Philippines, primarily hand crafting exact replicas of submachine guns, which are often the simplest type of gun to manufacture. Estimates are that almost half of all guns in the Philippines are illegal. 42

Fact: Chinese police destroyed 113 illegal gun factories and shops in a three-month crackdown in 2006. Police seized 2,445 tons of explosives, 4.81 million detonators and 117,000 guns. 43

Myth: The United States has the highest violence rate because of lax gun control


http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/guns-in-other-countries/


The cities and states with the strictest gun control laws in our country...where the ban is in place except in name...have some of the highest homicide and violent crime stats in the U.S.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Stevensr123

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 166
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #220 on: March 01, 2018, 07:59:15 pm »
@Stevensr123 , I do not mean to be insulting by asking this, but you know the history of why we have a 2nd amendment?
yes I do   ^-^ And I understand completely why it was necessary. Sadly though I the world is a completely different place compared to 200+ years ago, when people where ACTUALLY free, government was small etc   I think fighting against your current government would be a different beast, not that its ever likely to happen.

Well said.

One question.  Do you or your government for that matter not see the correlation in the fact people aren't allowed to own guns and the high rate of knife crimes?  And that when you take one form of killing away from a criminal they will just find another?

If England placed the same kind of ban on knives tomorrow that they have on guns...then you'd see an increase in murder by blunt force trauma...with the most used weapon being a bat or a club.

I think 100% the reason why knife crime is up, is because of guns where banned, at the same time though I think their was and has always been a massive cultural difference and I think culture is probably the main reason why so many people are dying.

People are far too internally repressed these days,  computer games, the internet etc people are losing their social skills and becoming numb to emotions, that plus over here at least, society is far too weak against crime and d**k heads. this goes for both sides of the pond. Kids these days just have a complete lack of respect for authority and the fellow man

@Stevensr123
You have to understand.  There are two economies in this. One is the cities, and the other, basically everywhere else. Most of the USA is farm, ranch, and wildlands.

While primarily instituted as a guard against tyranny and for self-defense in the 2nd amendment, The vast majority of us need guns for predator control and hunting. Along with that comes sport shooting, which is glorified target practice. That is the basis of gun culture nearly nationwide.

In the city that culture is bastardized into self-defense (where allowed) and criminal use by gangs and robbers.

More than that, take suicides out of the picture, and something like 60% of gun deaths go away. Yes, they are counting suicides in gun violence. Then take away gang violence (largely in city slums), and the numbers drop to a nearly negligent number.

Believe me, for the vast majority of this country, guns are a good thing, and a necessary part of country living.
.

I completely understand, guns here are still available for hunting etc same when i lived in Australia. the country man will always need a rifle on hand to deal with the threats that the country life imposes. I shot a nice kangaroo (which is considered a pest in Australia) and it was cool, I just don't have the urge to ever want one because I live in the city :)


Offline Stevensr123

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 166
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #221 on: March 01, 2018, 08:07:24 pm »
No... the British culture isn't a gun culture.... NOW.   But they didn't call them the "Bloody British" (they loved them some beheadings events...hey...there was no American Idol, after all) for nothing. 

And the term "Imperialist" really does apply to what British culture used to consist of...(unlike how some try to label America with the term)... since they had their fingers in every nation's pie. 

Now, however, Britain is just another socialist (communist w/a smiley face) nation.... currently involved in 'bending over' for the invading Muslim hordes.....

that loves to look down their noses at the stepchild nation that kicked their ass once....lol.

Just sayin....
I personally love the fact we where imperialists :) ( the people on the left hate our dirty past though haha)

Without the British spreading the English language and technology and Christianity , we would probably be all Muslim by now.

To be honest, most of the British are centralist, when ever most governments over here get into power, its because they have a centralist policy  (mix of good business policies plus social policies like education, houses, health etc).

It's the reason why the most left labour party in decades haven't got into power when we are run by probably the most incompetent government ever -  thankfully!


« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 08:08:07 pm by Stevensr123 »

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #222 on: March 01, 2018, 08:13:58 pm »
I personally love the fact we where imperialists :) ( the people on the left hate our dirty past though haha)

Without the British spreading the English language and technology and Christianity , we would probably be all Muslim by now.

And worse.  Most of the nations you left (excepting this one in which you were KICKED out), fell into despotism, poverty and genocide.   Rhodesia is a sterling testament to what happens when British Colonialism retreated into itself.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline WingNot

  • Resident TBR Curmudgeon
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,659
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #223 on: March 01, 2018, 08:16:20 pm »
I personally love the fact we where imperialists :) ( the people on the left hate our dirty past though haha)

Without the British spreading the English language and technology and Christianity , we would probably be all Muslim by now.



Good stuff!.. LOL   

Now was it Wilde or Shaw who said "England and America are two countries divided by a common language."
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 08:16:40 pm by Wingnut »
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,941
Re: Trump: 'Take the guns first, go through due process second'
« Reply #224 on: March 01, 2018, 08:17:08 pm »
I completely understand, guns here are still available for hunting etc same when i lived in Australia. the country man will always need a rifle on hand to deal with the threats that the country life imposes. I shot a nice kangaroo (which is considered a pest in Australia) and it was cool, I just don't have the urge to ever want one because I live in the city :)

@Stevensr123

Then what, pray tell,  do you find so bizarre?