BREAKING>> Active Shooter Florida High School... Developing... Multiple victims...

[thackney]

I agree, the only thing that would stop a lot of these shootings is total confiscation as in what Australia has done as I understand it and that is never going to happen.

Australia continues to have mass murder's.  Death by fire, vehicle or knife is still death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers_Hill,_New_South_Wales#Nursing_home_fire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2017_Melbourne_car_attack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairns_child_killings

[Cyber Liberty]

And more.  Flame away.  I know you hate what im saying, but so far I haven’t seen anything other than more ineffectual hand-wringing, and eventually that ain’t gonna cut it any more.

I don't "hate" what you are saying, I just think you're <>.  There's a difference.

[edpc]

You kid yourself if you think it wouldn’t be easy for law enforcement to shoot you dead if you violently resist an order to confiscate your fire arms.

Remember Waco?  Remember all the times someone died because some trigger happy cop on a bust pulled the trigger before thinking things through?

You wouldn’t last a minute, and other than a small handful of outsiders, you wouldn’t be much mourned, either.

Waco is probably the worst example you could have used. Originally, the BATFE was there to enforce the ‘E’ portion, since the Davidians were reportedly purchasing grenades shells and fully assembling them.  Instead of arresting Koresh in town, they foolishly chose to make a high profile raid on the compound. That standoff lasted 51 days and was not resolved until armored vehicles were called in and started a fire, burning the compound to the ground.

In the end, there was more outrage towards the government over the results than the activity of the kook individuals and activities of the Davidians.  In fact, so much outrage was generated that the Murrah Federal Building was bombed in Oklahoma City killing 160+ people. If you think large scale raids and confiscation of firearms from civilians won’t result in similar retaliation, you're crazy.  The country will tear itself apart.

[endicom]

I guess some of the Framers were right...the Bill of Rights would give some people the wrong idea that only enumerated rights exist. 

If we'd be better off without a BoR is a tough question. Tough to decide back then and tough to evaluate now.

[truth_seeker]

No, not just this one.  It’ll be the next one, or the one after that, but if nothing is done other than more hand-wringing, it will happen. 

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid was just massacred by this guy; don’t you think you’d be demanding to know why a palpably mentally disturbed kid was able to legally buy an AR-15?

He had a semi-auto AR15. People in the 50s and 60s had semi-auto guns galore, but the children behaved correctly.

It is human behavior which has gone astray, not availability of guns.

Fix the real problem, not the politically correct nonsense.

[skeeter]

I understand the rational argument that we ought to participate in the discussion of new, "reasonable" gun control measures because... well... we will wake up one day and it will be done for us, without us, despite us. 

But, I don't subscribe to that thought. 

The end-point goal of the left is confiscation and banishment of guns.  For them, despite their platitudes, there is no point between here and there that will satisfy them.  The goal: confiscate, ban, and criminalize guns.  While they'd love to do it in one fell swoop, they will accept incremental steps in the process.  Theirs is a relentless and often silent process of taking a million steps to reach their goal; any goal actually.  They are patient and will exploit every mass murder event to ratchet up the rhetoric and to take one more baby step towards their end goal.

I will not do their bidding.  I will fight and resist every tiny incremental step they take along the way while trying to gain some of my own.  But, I sure as heck won't Neville Chamberlain this matter.  I will not.

Excellent. Thanks.

[edpc]

If we'd be better off without a BoR is a tough question. Tough to decide back then and tough to evaluate now.

Those that have the biggest issues with the Patriot Act and FISA courts understand the BoR is barely standing between us and Orwellian rule.

[Smokin Joe]

That’s such a facetious point I’m surprised you would even bother to make it.  If this kid had been limited to a knife, 17 people, mostly kids, would not now be dead.

In the Rwandan genocides, most of the half million victims were killed with machetes. You can't assume that anyone would have been able to stop the perp from killing large numbers of people armed with a knife, axe, or other edged weapon.

The gun is a mere tool, the perp is a symptom. I suggest treating the problem, not just the symptoms, or blaming the tool for being misused.

[Smokin Joe]

The Constitution gives no power to Congress to ban those things.

I guess some of the Framers were right...the Bill of Rights would give some people the wrong idea that only enumerated rights exist.   

You forgot the Ninth Amendment:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

[Smokin Joe]

Too bad.  You’re dealing with a very dangerous tool that can be easily used to create mayhem, as has been demonstrated once again.  More compromise is necessary because if gun owners cannot come up with a method for preventing mentally disturbed individuals from being able to legally buy fire arms and then go on a massacre like this, then they will lose their guns, period. 

There’s a reason why you can no longer own a full auto without special licensing.  The things are just too damned dangerous.  There’s a reason why you can’t go to Home Depot and buy a stick of dynamite to get rid of a tree stump:  it’s too damned dangerous. 

If gun owners cannot come up with a creative way of making sure that fire arms, period, are not considered to be too damned dangerous as well, they will lose them.

Better ban D-9 Cats, then. Who knows (not that I want to) what sort of body count could be racked up with one of those.

[Cyber Liberty]

Better ban D-9 Cats, then. Who knows (not that I want to) what sort of body count could be racked up with one of those.

I've noticed lawyers tend to have this overblown sense of self value, that people will just drop everything and do what their Lawyers, Legislatures, cops and Judges tell them to do.  There are something like 350 Million guns in this country.  How many do you suppose would get registered and insured if the lawyers in this thread ever get their way?  Couple million, maybe?  Any more than that would likely overwhelm whatever records system they have. 

The number of mysterious boating accidents and lawn landscaping jobs would skyrocket.

[INVAR]

There’s a reason why you can no longer own a full auto without special licensing.  The things are just too damned dangerous.  There’s a reason why you can’t go to Home Depot and buy a stick of dynamite to get rid of a tree stump:  it’s too damned dangerous. 

Yes.  Guns are too damned dangerous and so is dynamite, hand grenades and knives.

But more dangerous than those things put together, is liberty.  Especially liberty of belief, speech and press.  Together those things contribute to creating the radical mindsets that cause a person to obtain the too damned dangerous things to do harm and murder.

Therefore let us surrender and license speech, press and religious exercise to accomplish the ultimate goal of getting rid of the root cause of murder and mayhem so we can have the illusion of safety and security.

We do not need liberty when we have a government big enough to protect us all from ourselves and give us what they determine we need.

[skeeter]

So we should turn our schools into armed camps?

Its this kind of overwrought rhetoric thats makes me wonder how serious you are.

Who said anything about an armed camp? We're talking about one or two trained agents carrying a concealed weapon.

[mystery-ak]

Public defender says Cruz is remorseful and on suicide watch...

[TomSea]

Cruz (if no one posted this) may indeed have marched with a group, "Republic of Florida",  check Drudge and check this ABC news story:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-school-shooting-suspect/story?id=53092753

I know something was posted earlier, I will look for threads, they call this "Republic of Florida" group a white supremacist group.

[edpc]

Public defender says Cruz is remorseful and on suicide watch...

Yesterday, during the arrest when the overhead helicopter shot showed cops patting him down outside the police car, I could have sworn I saw the kid vomit.  They ended up taking him to the medical center for 'labored breathing.'  The realization of what he'd done was probably setting in after arrest.  Too damn bad.  These actions have the ultimate consequences.

[jmyrlefuller]

That’s such a facetious point I’m surprised you would even bother to make it.  If this kid had been limited to a knife, 17 people, mostly kids, would not now be dead.

If the only weapon Tim McVeigh had was a knife, he still would've been able to blow up the federal building in Oklahoma City and kill 168 people, because fertilizer and a box truck are not classified by any sane person as weapons.

Osama bin Laden's minions killed thousands, armed with only boxcutters.

People can and will find ways to commit mass slaughter, and if you think you can ban every possible item, it will only lead to an even more totalitarian and oppressive state than we have now.

[Cyber Liberty]

If the only weapon Tim McVeigh had was a knife, he still would've been able to blow up the federal building in Oklahoma City and kill 168 people, because fertilizer and a box truck are not classified by any sane person as weapons.

Osama bin Laden's minions killed thousands, armed with only boxcutters.

People can and will find ways to commit mass slaughter, and if you think you can ban every possible item, it will only lead to an even more totalitarian and oppressive state than we have now.

You say that like it's a bad thing.... 

[verga]

Someone up thread made a comment about the "well organized Militia" This what the law says about who are to be considered members of the militia:
U.S. Code › Title 10 › Subtitle A › Part I › Chapter 12 › § 246
10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes
(a)
The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b)The classes of the militia are—
the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 14, § 311; Pub. L. 85–861, § 1(7), Sept. 2, 1958, 72 Stat. 1439; Pub. L. 103–160, div. A, title V, § 524(a), Nov. 30, 1993, 107 Stat. 1656; renumbered § 246, Pub. L. 114–328, div. A, title XII, § 1241(a)(2), Dec. 23, 2016, 130 Stat. 2497.)

[INVAR]

If the only weapon Tim McVeigh had was a knife, he still would've been able to blow up the federal building in Oklahoma City and kill 168 people, because fertilizer and a box truck are not classified by any sane person as weapons.

Osama bin Laden's minions killed thousands, armed with only boxcutters.

People can and will find ways to commit mass slaughter, and if you think you can ban every possible item, it will only lead to an even more totalitarian and oppressive state than we have now.

Well, you are just going to have to accept reality and realize that a totalitarian and oppressive state is coming and inevitable.   You just need to stop being selfish and be proactive and productive in having a voice to support what level of totalitarianism and oppression is acceptable and good for Conservatism.  Otherwise you will be subject to a more overt and heinous form of totalitarianism and oppression than what you are willing to lend a hand to accept.

Just lay back and enjoy it.  It will all be over soon.

[driftdiver]

Someone up thread made a comment about the "well organized Militia" This what the law says about who are to be considered members of the militia:
U.S. Code › Title 10 › Subtitle A › Part I › Chapter 12 › § 246
10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes
(a)
The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b)The classes of the militia are—
the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 14, § 311; Pub. L. 85–861, § 1(7), Sept. 2, 1958, 72 Stat. 1439; Pub. L. 103–160, div. A, title V, § 524(a), Nov. 30, 1993, 107 Stat. 1656; renumbered § 246, Pub. L. 114–328, div. A, title XII, § 1241(a)(2), Dec. 23, 2016, 130 Stat. 2497.)

@verga

This has been settled by the courts.   You do not have to be a member of a militia to have a firearm.

[Smokin Joe]

I've noticed lawyers tend to have this overblown sense of self value, that people will just drop everything and do what their Lawyers, Legislatures, cops and Judges tell them to do.  There are something like 350 Million guns in this country.  How many do you suppose would get registered and insured if the lawyers in this thread ever get their way?  Couple million, maybe?  Any more than that would likely overwhelm whatever records system they have. 

The number of mysterious boating accidents and lawn landscaping jobs would skyrocket.

If the Canadians can kill their long gun registry with noncompliance, we can, too.

[txradioguy]

I've noticed lawyers tend to have this overblown sense of self value, that people will just drop everything and do what their Lawyers, Legislatures, cops and Judges tell them to do.  There are something like 350 Million guns in this country.  How many do you suppose would get registered and insured if the lawyers in this thread ever get their way?  Couple million, maybe?  Any more than that would likely overwhelm whatever records system they have. 

The number of mysterious boating accidents and lawn landscaping jobs would skyrocket.

However many guns I have at the time if this (God forbid) stupidity being pushed here ever went into law...would suddenly disappear into a place only I know about where I could still access them if necessary.

In other words I'd non comply in a heartbeat.

[INVAR]

In other words I'd non comply in a heartbeat.

Non-compliance to what Jazzy is advocating and Oceander is warning must be done, will be a duty should the state ever grant their wishes.

Hiding your arms is not the answer.

Using your arms when efforts are made to force you to comply with tyranny is the answer.

The only answer.

Live free or die has a meaning.

[txradioguy]

Live free or die has a meaning.

Indeed it does.