Message from moderate leftist

[FairWarning]

Hi everyone,

My name is Tim K., and I identify as a fairly moderate leftist (maybe center-left, I'm not 100% sure). You might be assuming at the moment that I'm here to post a lengthy, dumb, hate-filled rant against Trump, the GOP, and/or conservatism as a whole, inviting a large influx of strong, well-written responses that completely destroy my arguments and expose me for the brainwashed SJW that I am. Of course, I don't doubt that there are many people here who would most likely annihilate me in a political debate, mainly because I suck at political arguments in general - whether it be with online conservatives or with my hardcore liberal parents. However, that's not what I'm here to do.

Instead, I wish to say that as someone who personally opposes conservatism as an ideology, as well as opposes many contemporary right-wing figures (e.g. the President), I hold NO feelings of hatred, resentment, or disdain for my right-wing brothers and sisters throughout America, or anywhere else in the world. What I mean by this is that I fully respect people who hold political opinions that differ from my own and that I do not presume them to be stupid, prejudiced, brainwashed, hate-filled, or anything like that. Instead, I simply recognize that they see many issues from a different perspective than I do and have different ideas as to how we should resolve the problems that currently face our nation and our planet.

In fact, I have a few things to say to (the majority of) the conservatives and right-leaning individuals who like to share their opinions on this site and elsewhere on the web; things you don't often expect to hear from a leftist:

You are NOT racist.

You are NOT sexist.

You are NOT xenophobic.

You are NOT evil or heartless.

You do NOT necessarily hate LGBT individuals.

You do NOT hate people in poverty or want them to suffer.

You do NOT hate Hispanic or even Muslim immigrants.

You are NOT stupid for supporting Trump, Fox News, the GOP, Breitbart, or any other right-wing authority in the U.S.

I am willing to bet that much more than half of you are very intelligent, reasonable, empathetic, non-prejudiced, and open-minded human beings, and I feel the same way (sort of) about many liberals in this country. I dare even say that it might be possible for liberals and conservatives in this country to unite to a certain extent and try to work together to solve a lot of issues we're currently facing - from homelessness and LGBT discrimination to illegal immigration and voter fraud. I don't think we have to necessarily stick to any one-sided solution and ignore all complaints from people we disagree with, though I do understand why it is extremely difficult to find enough common ground to get effective, bi-partisan solutions.

I see so much endless anger, resentment, and down-right from both sides on the web and elsewhere almost every single day. I certainly don't believe it'll ever be possible to make this bitter division to go away or to even greatly reduce it, but I do think that it's not what our founding fathers or people like MLK Jr., Milton Friedman, Abraham Lincoln, or Harvey Milk would want from us either. Of course, these people knew that there would always be political disagreement in this country and in many cases welcomed it, but at the same time they envisioned an America where people from both sides could work together and do their best to make this country as prosperous, free, and beautiful as they could. I honestly believe that cooperating with people like Donald Trump, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Jeff Flake - all people I really can't stand - is necessary for the United States to move forward in a positive direction and resolve problems that are holding us back from true greatness.

That's what I have to say to the people of this website, and I hope it left a somewhat positive impression on you some of you. Unfortunately I'm not really in a mood to enrage in any debates with people, and I can tell a fair amount of people here would love to do that (to be honest, you would probably beat me really badly, I SUUUUCK at political debates). I don't exactly plan on posting here a lot more unless I find it necessary to speak out again as a moderate liberal. I wish every one of you well, and I sincerely hope that our President, as much as I oppose him, succeeds in making this country "great again" - at least, great in a way that I can agree with.

[INVAR]

Wow, Jazzy has a potential new friend now here on the board.

Well thanks 'Fairwarning' for that inaugural post and the sentiments you shared from the mindset of a 'moderate Leftist' that opposes Conservatism.

You have offered some thoughts on issues that have spurned thoughts and a rebuttal.  Even though you have stated that you suck at political debate, this is a discussion board so do permit us the opportunity to take your essay and chew on some of the issues you brought up.

First of all you stated that you oppose Conservatism as an ideology.  True Constitutional Conservatism is NOT a political ideology.  It is a bedrock set of principles and way of life that governs every aspect of our thinking in everything we do.

But let us look and examine what you have offered:

I dare even say that it might be possible for liberals and conservatives in this country to unite to a certain extent and try to work together to solve a lot of issues we're currently facing

Well forgive the analogy - but we are arrived at the point that such is like saying God and Satan can work together to solve a lot of issues.  The core principles that were foundational to liberty and the country - are rejected and seen as evil by leftists and liberals who are working tirelessly to empower the state to regulate, abolish and subjugate the very things that permit liberty to even exist on these shores.  How can two completely opposing worldviews work together?  We share no common core or foundation except the ground under our feet.  Leftist views of our rights are constructs of government - and Conservative belief is that our rights come from God and are inalienable and insoluble.  That one issue forever divides the core over what direction the nation goes and whether or not liberty remains.

from homelessness

How many billions have been spent by taxpayers in LBJ's war on poverty since the 60's?  Why do we still have poor and homeless when so many billions (maybe trillions) have been spent via government welfare and private support - and yet it still exists.

Fact: we're never getting rid of the poor.  It's a human nature issue that Jesus Himself said would always remain in this age.

and LGBT discrimination

What about discrimination of alcoholics, drug addicts, sex addicts and kleptomaniacs?  Why should sexual behaviors and aberrations be the only behaviors that can be said to be discriminated against?

I certainly don't believe it'll ever be possible to make this bitter division to go away or to even greatly reduce it, but I do think that it's not what our founding fathers or people like MLK Jr., Milton Friedman, Abraham Lincoln, or Harvey Milk would want from us either.

You mentioned the Founders, so - a core issue of what once united this people:

'Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other' - John Adams - October 11, 1798

'Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.' - Benjamin Franklin

It was once widely known and accepted that liberty and this Constitution we covenanted under, can only work and be maintained by a people who are self-governed by a code of commonly regarded morals and ethics. 

Today - this people no longer are united on that core foundational bedrock.  In fact it is openly divided to the point of hatred that a people would be governed by those principles when a new government-oriented morality is being used to replace what we were once forged upon.  Can two people walk together unless they are agreed?  Can two people who hate the very mind and being of the other peaceably coexist when one seeks to abolish the morality they find abhorrent, and subjugate and dominate the other?

You can ask the Jews and the Palestinians all about that.

...but at the same time they envisioned an America where people from both sides could work together and do their best to make this country as prosperous, free, and beautiful as they could.

The Founders never envisioned that a people who replaced God with government and willfully surrendered their liberty for a quasi-monarchy and the supremacy of the State, could make the country anything other than an empire of despotism.  Do you really believe that a Communist, an Anarchist and a Constitutionalist can work together to make freedom and prosperity? If so, you are far more ignorant of core foundational understanding than you otherwise would lead on.

I honestly believe that cooperating with people like Donald Trump, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Jeff Flake - all people I really can't stand - is necessary for the United States to move forward in a positive direction and resolve problems that are holding us back from true greatness.

And how do you define 'true greatness' and how do you determine when it is achieved?  I go by what DeToqueville wrote.

I hope it left a somewhat positive impression on you some of you.

I can state that you at least offered a reasonable-sounding essay in your first post to this board.  We shall see if it continues or not.

Unfortunately I'm not really in a mood to enrage in any debates with people, and I can tell a fair amount of people here would love to do that

This is a discussion board, and this is what we do here.

I don't exactly plan on posting here a lot more unless I find it necessary to speak out again as a moderate liberal.

If you are going to find it necessary to speak out again as a 'moderate liberal' - and do not bother to return to threads to engage in the discussion you started - I personally consider that to be a form of trolling.

I wish every one of you well, and I sincerely hope that our President, as much as I oppose him, succeeds in making this country "great again" - at least, great in a way that I can agree with.

And what 'way' would that be? 

[Cyber Liberty]

Welcome to TBR, @FairWarning!  While we are primarily a Conservative forum, that just means most people here consider themselves on that side of the spectrum.  Our owner, @mystery-ak, believes in free speech above all, so you will not be thrown off or sanctioned by Moderators for just speaking your mind, as long as you stay away from personal attacks on other members.  Some may try to goad you into attacking, but let them roll off your back and you'll do fine. 

Nothing wrong with just lurking for the stories, either. 

We do have places where we stay away from political topics, such as The Members Lounge and a bunch of music threads (there's a daily thread there).  If you want to just chew the fat and get to know some of the folks here, I encourage you to come by.  Here's a link to The Lounge:

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,297405.0.html

[anubias]

Welcome @FairWarning  I think you will find quite a few like-minded folks here.  I hope you enjoy your stay.  :)

[roamer_1]

Hi everyone,

My name is Tim K., and I identify as a fairly moderate leftist (maybe center-left, I'm not 100% sure).

[...]

I see so much endless anger, resentment, and down-right from both sides on the web and elsewhere almost every single day. I certainly don't believe it'll ever be possible to make this bitter division to go away or to even greatly reduce it, but I do think that it's not what our founding fathers[...]  would want from us either.

Thanks for the post, and welcome @FairWarning
Unfortunately, the dichotomy is inevitably irreconcilable.

Conservatism invariably seeks liberty, and Liberalism seeks coercion and subjugation.
Conservatism seeks individualism and liberalism seeks the collective.

There is no possible compromise - One (philosophy) annihilates the other, necessarily.

You are welcome to ply your wares in this market of ideas - But be prepared to be challenged.

[Cyber Liberty]

Thanks for the post, and welcome @FairWarning
Unfortunately, the dichotomy is inevitably irreconcilable.

Conservatism invariably seeks liberty, and Liberalism seeks coercion and subjugation.
Conservatism seeks individualism and liberalism seeks the collective.

There is no possible compromise - One (philosophy) annihilates the other, necessarily.

You are welcome to ply your wares in this market of ideas - But be prepared to be challenged.

I've noticed over the past bunch of years that people often identify as liberals, but when they find out what conservatives really believe they discover they've been hanging with the wrong crowd.  I always encourage people like that to come watch us for a while, they might be in that group.

[skeeter]

Welcome.

We bark worse than we bite.

In fact, some of our 'allies' here are rougher on conservatives than I imagine you could ever be.

[roamer_1]

I've noticed over the past bunch of years that people often identify as liberals, but when they find out what conservatives really believe they discover they've been hanging with the wrong crowd.  I always encourage people like that to come watch us for a while, they might be in that group.

YEP. Liberty and Libertine are often confused. It's why one defines the principles - the things that are necessarily TRUE wrt liberty - Because the erosion thereof is inevitably the end of both liberty AND libertine. Progressivism (libertine) can only exist in the freedom that liberty provides. But as the infection that it is, it invariably kills it's host, inevitably ending in tyranny. It has been proven, so very many times in history that it defies common sense that people continue to try to make it work.

Liberty has responsibilities.
Freedom has consequences.

[WingNot]

So far I'll take him over that sumbitch Jazzy Jazz.

[INVAR]

So far I'll take him over that sumbitch Jazzy Jazz.

Yes, because unlike our resident Leftist, FW has identified what he is and does not engage in deceit to disguise what he is so as to beguile and persuade others to accept things anathema to their principles.

Makes a giant difference in terms of respect.  FW has definitely earned it.  Jazzy - not at all.

YEP. Liberty and Libertine are often confused. It's why one defines the principles - the things that are necessarily TRUE wrt liberty - Because the erosion thereof is inevitably the end of both liberty AND libertine. Progressivism (libertine) can only exist in the freedom that liberty provides. But as the infection that it is, it invariably kills it's host, inevitably ending in tyranny. It has been proven, so very many times in history that it defies common sense that people continue to try to make it work.

Liberty has responsibilities.
Freedom has consequences.

Exactly - even people on "our side" do not know the difference between liberty and freedom.

Libertine is just another word for LICENSE. 

A licentious people demand freedom to have license to do as they please without consequences.

Liberty cannot survive in that environment exactly for the reasons you stated.

[mountaineer]

I've noticed over the past bunch of years that people often identify as liberals, but when they find out what conservatives really believe they discover they've been hanging with the wrong crowd.  I always encourage people like that to come watch us for a while, they might be in that group.

There could be a conversion!

[sneakypete]

Hi everyone,

@FairWarning

You do NOT hate Hispanic or even Muslim immigrants.

Well,yeah,I do. I even hate Muslims who aren't immigrants. So should everyone else that doesn't want to be a slave in a medieval religious police state.

I have actually liked almost all of the His and Her Panics I have met,but all of them self-identified as "plain unleaded Americans".

I am willing to bet that much more than half of you are very intelligent, reasonable, empathetic, non-prejudiced, and open-minded human beings,

I would slap you down for not mentioning how outrageously handsome I am,but since you can't see me,I'll cut you some slack on that one.

 

and I feel the same way (sort of) about many liberals in this country.

Traditional conservatives are the ones that are liberal,in that they think each citizen should have the right to live their lives as they see fit as long as they aren't actually causing physical harm to anyone else. The dummies you call leftists are nothing but left-wing fascists.

I see so much endless anger, resentment, and down-right from both sides on the web and elsewhere almost every single day. I certainly don't believe it'll ever be possible to make this bitter division to go away or to even greatly reduce it, but I do think that it's not what our founding fathers or people like MLK Jr., Milton Friedman, Abraham Lincoln, or Harvey Milk would want from us either.

Uhhhhh.......uhhhhhh.....,"What's the frequency,Kenneth? MLK Jr was a thief,liar,and violent criminal that liked to hire white prostitutes so he could beat them. Abraham Lincoln was America's Stalin,and Harvey Milk was a nothing. You might THINK he "fought for you" because you are a  homosexual,but the truth is he was fighting for Harvey Milk.

I honestly believe that cooperating with people like Donald Trump, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Jeff Flake - all people I really can't stand - is necessary for the United States to move forward in a positive direction and resolve problems that are holding us back from true greatness.

Santa! How could you forget Santa,you fiend!

That's what I have to say to the people of this website, and I hope it left a somewhat positive impression on you some of you.

Well,good for you! I hope you are happy you got that out of your system. This is supposed to be America,and in American anybody can believe pretty much anything they want to believe. NONE of the names you mentioned believe in that,with the possible exception of Trump.

 

I don't exactly plan on posting here a lot more unless I find it necessary to speak out again as a moderate liberal.

Say what you want. There are no Thought Police here,like on leftist boards. You are not even the only leftie. Just be prepared to defend your opinions. No group hugs here.

I wish every one of you well, and I sincerely hope that our President, as much as I oppose him, succeeds in making this country "great again" - at least, great in a way that I can agree with.

Thank youi.

[INVAR]

Well my suspicion is that what we may have here, is just a 'moderate Leftist' troll - meaning someone that jumps on various boards to dump talking points with little or no interaction at all with the members who engage in discussing the subject matter he instigates.

I don't exactly plan on posting here a lot more unless I find it necessary to speak out again as a moderate liberal.

Then why post to a discussion board at all then unless the intent is to simply spam the board with a canned talking point or start an argument they have no intention of engaging in outside of watching the fireworks they lit off?

I don't exactly buy the argument that he sucks at debating given his essay.  Unless all he knows to do is post whatever talking points he hears from his well of 'moderate Leftism', and then we are right back to point A again.

[WingNot]

There could be a conversion!

My my... Aren't we a cockeyed optimist today.

[anubias]

My my... Aren't we a cockeyed optimist today.

@mountaineer is going to put the “k” in that alphabet soup.

[Lando Lincoln]

Mark

[Oceander]

This should be interesting ....

[Sanguine]

Book.

[roamer_1]

Well my suspicion is that what we may have here, is just a 'moderate Leftist' troll

Sure looks like it. He ain't coming back around.

[anubias]

Sure looks like it. He ain't coming back around.

The welcome may have shocked him.

[INVAR]

The welcome may have shocked him.

Doubtful. 

I've been on a number of boards and modded for one, and one of the traits of trolls, especially Leftist ones - is to get an account on a board, make an introduction very similar to this one - and then they only pop in to dump pro-agenda hit pieces and rarely ever comment on the threads they start.  The only variable to that is when they decide to go on the attack and use the occasion of an agenda post to belittle the board and its members/owners because they disagree or question what they posted.

[anubias]

Doubtful. 

I've been on a number of boards and modded for one, and one of the traits of trolls, especially Leftist ones - is to get an account on a board, make an introduction very similar to this one - and then they only pop in to dump pro-agenda hit pieces and rarely ever comment on the threads they start.  The only variable to that is when they decide to go on the attack and use the occasion of an agenda post to belittle the board and its members/owners because they disagree or question what they posted.

True.  I’ve seen it often enough. 

My earlier remark was flippant due to thinking about the reception he would have received at DU if he introduced himself as a Conservative.

[XenaLee]

Hi everyone,

My name is Tim K., and I identify as a fairly moderate leftist (maybe center-left, I'm not 100% sure). You might be assuming at the moment that I'm here to post a lengthy, dumb, hate-filled rant against Trump, the GOP, and/or conservatism as a whole, inviting a large influx of strong, well-written responses that completely destroy my arguments and expose me for the brainwashed SJW that I am. Of course, I don't doubt that there are many people here who would most likely annihilate me in a political debate, mainly because I suck at political arguments in general - whether it be with online conservatives or with my hardcore liberal parents. However, that's not what I'm here to do.

Instead, I wish to say that as someone who personally opposes conservatism as an ideology, as well as opposes many contemporary right-wing figures (e.g. the President), I hold NO feelings of hatred, resentment, or disdain for my right-wing brothers and sisters throughout America, or anywhere else in the world. What I mean by this is that I fully respect people who hold political opinions that differ from my own and that I do not presume them to be stupid, prejudiced, brainwashed, hate-filled, or anything like that. Instead, I simply recognize that they see many issues from a different perspective than I do and have different ideas as to how we should resolve the problems that currently face our nation and our planet.

In fact, I have a few things to say to (the majority of) the conservatives and right-leaning individuals who like to share their opinions on this site and elsewhere on the web; things you don't often expect to hear from a leftist:

You are NOT racist.

You are NOT sexist.

You are NOT xenophobic.

You are NOT evil or heartless.

You do NOT necessarily hate LGBT individuals.

You do NOT hate people in poverty or want them to suffer.

You do NOT hate Hispanic or even Muslim immigrants.

You are NOT stupid for supporting Trump, Fox News, the GOP, Breitbart, or any other right-wing authority in the U.S.

I am willing to bet that much more than half of you are very intelligent, reasonable, empathetic, non-prejudiced, and open-minded human beings, and I feel the same way (sort of) about many liberals in this country. I dare even say that it might be possible for liberals and conservatives in this country to unite to a certain extent and try to work together to solve a lot of issues we're currently facing - from homelessness and LGBT discrimination to illegal immigration and voter fraud. I don't think we have to necessarily stick to any one-sided solution and ignore all complaints from people we disagree with, though I do understand why it is extremely difficult to find enough common ground to get effective, bi-partisan solutions.

I see so much endless anger, resentment, and down-right from both sides on the web and elsewhere almost every single day. I certainly don't believe it'll ever be possible to make this bitter division to go away or to even greatly reduce it, but I do think that it's not what our founding fathers or people like MLK Jr., Milton Friedman, Abraham Lincoln, or Harvey Milk would want from us either. Of course, these people knew that there would always be political disagreement in this country and in many cases welcomed it, but at the same time they envisioned an America where people from both sides could work together and do their best to make this country as prosperous, free, and beautiful as they could. I honestly believe that cooperating with people like Donald Trump, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Jeff Flake - all people I really can't stand - is necessary for the United States to move forward in a positive direction and resolve problems that are holding us back from true greatness.

That's what I have to say to the people of this website, and I hope it left a somewhat positive impression on you some of you. Unfortunately I'm not really in a mood to enrage in any debates with people, and I can tell a fair amount of people here would love to do that (to be honest, you would probably beat me really badly, I SUUUUCK at political debates). I don't exactly plan on posting here a lot more unless I find it necessary to speak out again as a moderate liberal. I wish every one of you well, and I sincerely hope that our President, as much as I oppose him, succeeds in making this country "great again" - at least, great in a way that I can agree with.

It's my opinion.... based on 20+ years of observation and interaction with leftists....

that there is no such thing as a "moderate" leftist.  It's like being a little bit/semi pregnant.  Not rational.  So ...starting off a thread with an inaccurate, if not dishonest, comment like that pretty much skews any further conversation, IMO.  And then not sticking around for any further discussion reeks of the usual leftie "dropping a turd in the punchbowl" and sitting back and watching the fun.  Typical drive-by.  Just sayin.

Feel free to prove me (or try to) wrong.

[sneakypete]

True.  I’ve seen it often enough. 

My earlier remark was flippant due to thinking about the reception he would have received at DU if he introduced himself as a Conservative.

@anubias

You don't even have to introduce yourself. I registered on DU and made ONE non-confrontational reply to a post,and was immediately banned. IIRC,I even got a snide "We don't want your type here" reason.

At first I was more amused than outraged,but over time I have came to the conclusion they were flattering me by instantly recognizing I wasn't a mindless clog in the the leftist machine.

[sneakypete]

It's my opinion.... based on 20+ years of observation and interaction with leftists....

that there is no such thing as a "moderate" leftist.  It's like being a little bit/semi pregnant.  Not rational.  So ...starting off a thread with an inaccurate, if not dishonest, comment like that pretty much skews any further conversation, IMO.  And then not sticking around for any further discussion reeks of the usual leftie "dropping a turd in the punchbowl" and sitting back and watching the fun.  Typical drive-by.  Just sayin.

Feel free to prove me (or try to) wrong.

@XenaLee

He was trolling for outrage. Homosexual "rights" (anybody ever heard of such a thing as heterosexual rights?) seemed to be a big issue for him/her/multiple choice,and the DNC has convinced homos they have no choice but to live on the Dim Plantation with all the other slaves,because they are obviously incapable of thinking or caring for themselves.