First Excerpts of Nunes Memo Released

[Frank Cannon]

If they do, itll be through the political process.  Prosecutors can, and do, routinely do much worse on garden variety warrants and indictments, and their absolute immunity for their actions in office protects them from suit.

And right there is a problem.

[Oceander]

@truth_seeker
@Oceander is a lawyer.  he makes his living lying to the court.

Yeah, and I practice in California, too, right?

Idiot. 

[truth_seeker]

You’re the one not making sense.  The whole point is the dossier was politically motivated.  That motivation started with an opponent of Trump on the Republican side.  If it matters it came from the Clinton campaign, it sure as hell matters where it originated.

The abuse of the FISA process is the crime. If a Republican initiated the dossier, then dropped it, that was BEFORE (and not connected to) the fraudulently obtained warrants.

[Oceander]

And right there is a problem.

You betcha!!!!  Spend some time reading about what cops and prosecutors routinely get away with will turn your stomach. 

[Oceander]

The abuse of the FISA process is the crime. If a Republican initiated the dossier, then dropped it, that was BEFORE (and not connected to) the fraudulently obtained warrants.

Under what statute?  Cite chapter and verse, please.  And explain why prosecutorial immunity does not apply.

[Bigun]

@edpc
It may have started with the Republicans ( if it did) but that doesn't matter now.   If it did start with a republican then it was for the campaign and part of the campaign.   Even IF the democrats paid for it and it was only used publicly it is just normal politics.

No the Clintons had connections with the Russians.  They used money from the Clinton Foundation to pay the russians and pay the company that completed the dossier.   THEN they went to the FBI DOJ, NSA CIA to collection more information.  Lied to a judge to get FISA warrant.   Lied again to the FISA court to renew the warrant.  All while plotting to 1) keep Trump from winning and 2) remove him as President after he won.  This is being done at the Director level in those agencies.

Oh this is a big deal

@driftdiver

Damned right it is!  Makes Watergate look like a traffic ticket by comparison.

[edpc]

It may have started with the Republicans ( if it did) but that doesn't matter now.  If it did start with a republican then it was for the campaign and part of the campaign.  Even IF the democrats paid for it and it was only used publicly it is just normal politics.

@driftdiver

We know it started on the Republican side.  That’s been known and reported by multiple outlets from the time the dossier came out.  For whatever reason, they stopped and the Clinton campaign picked up on it.  To use Frank’s example of a drunk writing ‘Trump rapes kids,’ Fusion GPS is the drunk.  Someone paid him to write ‘Trump rapes,’ then Clinton came along and paid him to write ‘kids.’  Both are outrageous.

Call me silly for wanting to know the complete story.

[driftdiver]

No, it’s not.  There was no giving aid and comfort to the country’s enemies; there was abuse of executive authority for domestic political gain.

@Oceander
@Bigun
Simple definition of Treason - the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

Seems they were trying to do the latter

The US code for treason is "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason"

Trying to illegally overthrow the President of the United States while working with the Russians qualifies as giving aid in my book.

[driftdiver]

Under what statute?  Cite chapter and verse, please.  And explain why prosecutorial immunity does not apply.

@Oceander
Judge Nap on Foxnews said it was a crime.   I know you're used to lying to the court but for the rest of us its unacceptable.

[Bigun]

@Oceander
Judge Nap on Foxnews said it was a crime.   I know you're used to lying to the court but for the rest of us its unacceptable.

per·ju·ry
ˈpərj(ə)rē/Submit
nounLAW
the offense of willfully telling an untruth in a court after having taken an oath or affirmation.

[truth_seeker]

@truth_seeker
@Oceander is a lawyer.  he makes his living lying to the court.

I know him to be strongly anti-Trump. Yes a lawyer, too.

As are Comey, Rosenstein, McCabe, Mueller, H.&. W. Clinton, and others.

"It all depends on what the meaning of is, is."

Nunes, on the other hand, is a 3rd generation farmer from California's central valley which is essentially like common sense flyover country. NOT LAWYER.

[Oceander]

@Oceander
@Bigun
Simple definition of Treason - the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

Seems they were trying to do the latter

The US code for treason is "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason"

Trying to illegally overthrow the President of the United States while working with the Russians qualifies as giving aid in my book.

Hardly.  Were they planning on making Putin president, or of surrendering control of the US to the Russian military?  No, they wanted to replace Trump with Clinton.  And in actual fact, the most they would succeed in doing is replacing Trump with Pence, or maybe Ryan, so they really didn’t think it through.

If you persist in trying to turn this into what it isn’t, you’ll simply waste a very good opportunity to show how the democrats have politicized the federal government. 

But then, wasting good opportunities seems to be what our side is best at. 

[XenaLee]

@Oceander
@Bigun
Simple definition of Treason - the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

Seems they were trying to do the latter

The US code for treason is "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason"

Trying to illegally overthrow the President of the United States while working with the Russians qualifies as giving aid in my book.

Problem is... neither Hillary or Obama owe their allegiance to the USA.  They have proven that in spades by their own actions.   So though technically, it's not treason in their case.... it is politically motivated treachery by enemy agents.  And anyone 'else' would be dealt with severely as enemy agents.  They will, I fear, skate justice... per usual.

[austingirl]

@Oceander
@Bigun
Simple definition of Treason - the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

Seems they were trying to do the latter

The US code for treason is "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason"

Trying to illegally overthrow the President of the United States while working with the Russians qualifies as giving aid in my book.

This is absolutely treason, working to throw an election to Hitlery who was using Russian propaganda to take down the opposition candidate. Hitlery and her hubbie were swimming in Russian money and sold them US uranium.

[jpsb]

A FISA court is not a regular court and it has special rules to protect American citizens
from unlawful surveillance. Who ever signed off in using the fraudulent Steele document
to obtain a warrant to spy on the Trump campaign committed a serious crime. Way more
serious then simple perjury. Lying to the FBI is a crime, lying to a super secret court about
American citizens is an even bigger crime.

[Oceander]

@Oceander
Judge Nap on Foxnews said it was a crime.   I know you're used to lying to the court but for the rest of us its unacceptable.

That’s nice.  Other than contempt of court, did he give you a statutory citation?  In this country, it cannot be a crime if it’s not proscribed by statute.  And even then, prosecutors and cops have immunity that private citizens don’t enjoy. 

I don’t find it acceptable; I just wish y’all would focus on reality and take it for what it is instead of trying to turn it into what it isn’t, because by doing so you waste the opportunity. 

[Oceander]

A FISA court is not a regular court and it has special rules to protect American citizens
from unlawful surveillance. Who ever signed off in using the fraudulent Steele document
to obtain a warrant to spy on the Trump campaign committed a serious crime. Way more
serious then simple perjury. Lying to the FBI is a crime, lying to a super secret court about
American citizens is an even bigger crime.

It’s not a crime without a statute and even then, only if immunity doesn’t apply. 

[Oceander]

This is absolutely treason, working to throw an election to Hitlery who was using Russian propaganda to take down the opposition candidate. Hitlery and her hubbie were swimming in Russian money and sold them US uranium.

It absolutely isn’t treason, and you’re wasting the opportunity it provides if you continue barking up that tree.

[DCPatriot]

@edpc
It may have started with the Republicans ( if it did) but that doesn't matter now.   If it did start with a republican then it was for the campaign and part of the campaign.   Even IF the democrats paid for it and it was only used publicly it is just normal politics.

No the Clintons had connections with the Russians.  They used money from the Clinton Foundation to pay the russians and pay the company that completed the dossier.   THEN they went to the FBI DOJ, NSA CIA to collection more information.  Lied to a judge to get FISA warrant.   Lied again to the FISA court to renew the warrant.  All while plotting to 1) keep Trump from winning and 2) remove him as President after he won.  This is being done at the Director level in those agencies.

Oh this is a big deal

Typical field agents in the Bureau are held to the "highest standard of ethics".  They are the cream of the crop, etc..

It would follow then, people on the Seventh Floor, MUST be lilywhite pure.  Nothing else is acceptable.

I would confiscate all their passports.  Starting with Barack Hussein Obama.

[XenaLee]

A FISA court is not a regular court and it has special rules to protect American citizens
from unlawful surveillance. Who ever signed off in using the fraudulent Steele document
to obtain a warrant to spy on the Trump campaign committed a serious crime. Way more
serious then simple perjury. Lying to the FBI is a crime, lying to a super secret court about
American citizens is an even bigger crime.

I wonder if the rats had to "judge shop" to get a willing participant judge...

like they always do "jury shopping" if/when they want a grand jury that will indict someone on the right based on flimsy or no evidence (See:  Tom DeLay Witch-hunt).

[Oceander]

I know him to be strongly anti-Trump. Yes a lawyer, too.

As are Comey, Rosenstein, McCabe, Mueller, H.&. W. Clinton, and others.

"It all depends on what the meaning of is, is."

Nunes, on the other hand, is a 3rd generation farmer from California's central valley which is essentially like common sense flyover country. NOT LAWYER.

/snicker

[aligncare]

They went 'all-in' on Clinton becoming President. That is, they ignored any 'laws' or 'rules' because they thought it wouldn't matter. Because they knew that if they were successful, and Clinton did take office, they would be rewarded instead of being prosecuted.


All of this just goes to show what an amazing miracle it was that Trump won. Trump won the Presidency with every single organization with tremendous power in the United States trying to stop him, even if they had to break the law to do it.

Not the least of which was the media, which did its part in creating false narratives and unflattering portrayals of Trump, and lies about him and his businesses. They were the visible enemies of Donald Trump’s presidential aspirations. They did the most damage by sucking in republicans and conservatives who should have known better. They were the ones that helped give rise to NeverTrump within the Republican ranks.

[driftdiver]

A FISA court is not a regular court and it has special rules to protect American citizens
from unlawful surveillance. Who ever signed off in using the fraudulent Steele document
to obtain a warrant to spy on the Trump campaign committed a serious crime. Way more
serious then simple perjury. Lying to the FBI is a crime, lying to a super secret court about
American citizens is an even bigger crime.

@jpsb
FBI Assistant Director Rosenstein signed off on the FISA renewal and he knew origins of the dossier at the time.

[Emjay]

Hardly.

If it walks like a duck ....

[Bigun]

It’s not a crime without a statute and even then, only if immunity doesn’t apply.

@Oceander

Make a note of 2(a) of FISA law.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1805

(2) on the basis of the facts submitted by the applicant there is probable cause to believe that—
(A) the target of the electronic surveillance is a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power: Provided, That no United States person may be considered a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and...