Author Topic: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?  (Read 2257 times)

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rangerrebew

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Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« on: January 26, 2018, 02:03:46 pm »

Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
How the best intentions to improve pain treatment went awry.

By Lisa Esposito, Staff Writer |Jan. 24, 2018, at 1:54 p.m.



Opioid painkillers like OxyContin were once touted as wonder drugs, promising long-lasting relief to people suffering from intractable pain. Today, prescription drugs containing oxycodone or hydrocodone, along with methadone, heroin and illicit Fentanyl, are largely blamed for a rise in overdoses now killing more Americans than traffic fatalities. Overall, U.S. life expectancy is dropping thanks to the opioid epidemic.

https://health.usnews.com/health-care/patient-advice/articles/2018-01-24/opioid-epidemic-what-brought-us-here

Offline Restored

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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2018, 02:11:18 pm »
People here are referring to "Medicaid Expansion" as "Opioid Expansion". Medicaid gets much of the blame because it allowed people to get Oxy very cheaply. They could sell it for much more on the street.
I was in the ER with my son and the couple next to us were in for a bad tooth. The husband and wife were scheming to get Oxy so he could sell it. He would then have the money to go to the dentist. I even got Oxy for a crown. I threw it in a closet.
Doctors prescribing highly addictive pain pills is what got us here.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2018, 02:31:31 pm »
People here are referring to "Medicaid Expansion" as "Opioid Expansion". Medicaid gets much of the blame because it allowed people to get Oxy very cheaply. They could sell it for much more on the street.
I was in the ER with my son and the couple next to us were in for a bad tooth. The husband and wife were scheming to get Oxy so he could sell it. He would then have the money to go to the dentist. I even got Oxy for a crown. I threw it in a closet.
Doctors prescribing highly addictive pain pills is what got us here.

That's a part of the problem.  The bigger part is illicit fentanyl.

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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2018, 02:45:02 pm »
It's anecdotal but I don't know anyone who got addicted to pain pills without a doctor involved. Everyone got the first set from a doctor.
Up here, Meth is king(Hillbilly Heroin) although heroin is catching up. The fentanyl is just the kicker that takes them out of the world. A friend lost her daughter to it.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 04:37:42 pm »
What got us here is PhRMA getting slaps on the wrist, fines and misdemeanor citations for crimes you and I would be doing Centuries behind bars for.

The Drug Co. CEOs know they are not going to ever do a Day behind bars.

Until that changes nothing else will either.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 04:58:54 pm »
I place most of the "blame" on the user. They use, and continue to use, deadly substances--fully aware of the possible early death to come.

They are offered "recovery," via several different channels. Today health insurance is mandated to offer them said recovery for free, in Obamacare's "eight essential health benefits."

There are VA programs galore, 12 step meetings, church programs, Salvation Army, detox facilities, etc.

Prince and Tom Petty didn't want for resources, but instead went on using.

Finally on homelessness: Over 1,000 homeless persons were surveyed while living in tents along the Santa Ana river in range County California.

Over 90 percent turned down offers of help. They stated that they preferred the freedom to live the way they live.

Generally Two-thirds of homeless, are addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill or combinations thereof.

We used to institutionalize such persons. Now civil libertarians insist we "mainstream" them, so they now live in parks and beaches of your neighborhoods, and mine.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2018, 06:39:39 pm »
Meanwhile there are people walking around with a reasonable quality of life right now, but would not have any quality at all but for the Opioids they have to take. 

The person I've mentioned on these threads that needs Hydrocodone for her Fibromyalgia to be able to move, was just cut off by her Doc (Rheumatologist) yesterday, and switched to something else.  It was by order of the government.

So, the plans are working to create a permanently dependent class of people, from the crowd of well-financed now.  Not just the poor anymore.  Congratulations.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2018, 07:23:08 pm »
Meanwhile there are people walking around with a reasonable quality of life right now, but would not have any quality at all but for the Opioids they have to take. 

The person I've mentioned on these threads that needs Hydrocodone for her Fibromyalgia to be able to move, was just cut off by her Doc (Rheumatologist) yesterday, and switched to something else.  It was by order of the government.

So, the plans are working to create a permanently dependent class of people, from the crowd of well-financed now.  Not just the poor anymore.  Congratulations.

I agree with you, Cyber, that we've created a worse situation that we were trying to fix.  And, most opioid abusers get their drugs illicitly - they are not usually the prescribee, or have obtained the drugs under false pretenses. 

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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2018, 07:24:52 pm »
Meanwhile there are people walking around with a reasonable quality of life right now, but would not have any quality at all but for the Opioids they have to take. 

The person I've mentioned on these threads that needs Hydrocodone for her Fibromyalgia to be able to move, was just cut off by her Doc (Rheumatologist) yesterday, and switched to something else.  It was by order of the government.

So, the plans are working to create a permanently dependent class of people, from the crowd of well-financed now.  Not just the poor anymore.  Congratulations.
Nobody with brains, wants to take pain meds away from legitimate pain sufferers.

And as for me, I don't give a sh!te about people that get strung out on drugs.

Alcohol, marijuana, meth, cocaine, heroin--there are plenty of ways to ruin your life, and the lives of your family too.

There are plenty of resources for information, detoxification and recovery/rehab.

As Nancy Reagan said, "just say no" to drugs. 
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2018, 08:11:33 pm »
Nobody with brains, wants to take pain meds away from legitimate pain sufferers.

People working for the government have no brains then, because they are kicking legitimate users of these drugs off of them. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2018, 08:20:35 pm »
When I had my surgery I got opioids in the hospital. When I went to rehab, I only got Tylenol.

I threw my back out a few months ago. My doctor told me Tylenol or Motrin. In the past she prescribed something stronger, like Percoset.

Strange because years ago she prescribed Fentanyl patches. Now it's take Tylenol and a heat pack.

People want to escape, or cope, to feel comfortably numb. (Cue Pink Floyd)  Unfortunately they do in bad ways, by drinking, drugs, over eating, self mutilating, etc. 
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2018, 08:32:54 pm »
People working for the government have no brains then, because they are kicking legitimate users of these drugs off of them.

Govt cannot retrain recreational users who become addicts. If they could, we wouldn't have a problem with consumers.

The problem lies with the manufacturers who, like any business entity, owe allegiance to their bottom line and nothing else.

Top management must be prosecuted and jailed.

It's not as if that would shut Off the product to people who do have a legit need for opioids.

Worst case would be the drug maker breaks up, the assets are re-acquired by other investors, and they're back in business overnight.

This is a Government Manufactured problem.

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« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 08:40:13 pm by To-Whose-Benefit? »
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2018, 08:34:35 pm »

The person I've mentioned on these threads that needs Hydrocodone for her Fibromyalgia to be able to move, was just cut off by her Doc (Rheumatologist) yesterday, and switched to something else.  It was by order of the government.

Fibro will get you cut off quickly. Fibro is the dumping ground for doctors when they don't care to find out what is really wrong with you. It's a symptom of a bigger problem.
The Mayo Clinic advises to avoid narcotics as they can make the problem worse.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2018, 08:44:16 pm »
Fibro will get you cut off quickly. Fibro is the dumping ground for doctors when they don't care to find out what is really wrong with you. It's a symptom of a bigger problem.
The Mayo Clinic advises to avoid narcotics as they can make the problem worse.

I don't think anybody truly has a handle on the cause of that malady, so I tend not to trust in people who tell me they know exactly what it's all about.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2018, 08:46:38 pm »
People working for the government have no brains then, because they are kicking legitimate users of these drugs off of them.
As for myself, I don't have a reason to agree with or disagree with you. I have never heard of 'the government" kicking legitimate, off them.'

I know a fair amount about addiction, and I assure you that quite a few "abusers," will claim they have legitimate needs. It is part of the addiction mentality.

Do you have any idea, why smokers go on and on? I do. They fear the discomfort of withdrawal. It is not any more complicated, than that.

I know for certain, that opioids are mind-altering, judgment is impaired. So the mind of the individual claiming to need for pain, is questionable.

In my opinion, based on personal experience to back it up, doctors need more training and skill to get many people "off them."
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2018, 08:52:27 pm »
As for myself, I don't have a reason to agree with or disagree with you. I have never heard of 'the government" kicking legitimate, off them.'

I guess then you are assuming I told an untruth upthread, where I just wrote somebody got kicked off because the government intervened.  Specifically, the State Board informed the Doc he would have his license pulled if he prescribed the Hydrocodone.  I don't disagree the government drones who did that are mindless.

For want of a better phrase:  The state put itself between the patient and the Doctor.  They didn't even rely on the Insurance company to do it, as has been their practice in the past.  And there are people applauding that on this very forum. **nononono*
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2018, 08:54:32 pm »
I even got Oxy for a crown. I threw it in a closet.

How much you want for that?

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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2018, 08:56:09 pm »
Meanwhile there are people walking around with a reasonable quality of life right now, but would not have any quality at all but for the Opioids they have to take. 

The person I've mentioned on these threads that needs Hydrocodone for her Fibromyalgia to be able to move, was just cut off by her Doc (Rheumatologist) yesterday, and switched to something else.  It was by order of the government.

So, the plans are working to create a permanently dependent class of people, from the crowd of well-financed now.  Not just the poor anymore.  Congratulations.

Some years ago I got a severely abscessed molar. But it started at the beginning of a long holiday weekend so no dental offices were open and at the time I didn’t have a dentist as I had recently moved and my old one had recently retired.  I was in severe and intolerable pain (it felt like my face and jaw and upper neck had been splayed open with an ax, I was crying and ended up on my living room floor in a fetal position because it just hurt that bad at one point), had facial swelling and was running a 101 to 102 fever. I didn’t want to but broke down and went to the ER that Saturday.

The ER doc gave me an RX for antibiotics and an Rx for Hydrocodone for the pain, (IIRC it was for only 10 pills and with no refills) just enough of the pain pills to get me through until I could get in to see an oral surgeon.

Thank God he did! I don’t know how I would have managed those three next days until, after calling several oral surgeons, I finally found one who would see me the next morning.  And of course getting the anti-biotic was important too. And a tooth abscess left untreated can be fatal.

The tooth and the infection was too far gone ended up having to be pulled and the oral surgeon wrote and another Rx for an antibiotic and asked if I wanted more pain meds, but I still had a couple of Hydrocodone’s left from the ER and told him I would use those and then go to an OTC if needed. After the Novocain wore off I took one Hydrocodone that night so I could sleep and by the next morning I was more sore than in severe pain and didn’t need to even take an OTC pain med.

Some years earlier I had a bad episode with my back. I’ve had intermittent lower back problems before but this was the worse I’d ever had.

I could hardly stand up or walk, getting in and out of my car was torture and took forever to get in just the right position so that the pain and spasms didn’t double me over - severe nerve pain and muscle spasms. My boss observed me struggling, wincing and crying out in pain just getting out of my chair at work and trying to walk by holding on to the walls and cubical walls and sent me home.

I called one of my nieces to ask if she could bring over her heating pad as mine wasn’t working and perhaps her back massager.  When she got to my house and saw how debilitated I was and how much pain I was in, she insisted on taking me to the ER.

The ER doc gave me a shot in my butt of a very strong anti-inflammatory and sent me home with Rx’s for a muscle relaxer (one to two every 6 hours as needed) and Percocet (one every 6-8 hours) and instructions to follow up with an orthopedic.

I spent the next couple of days on my living room recliner alternating ice packs and a heating pad. It was easier to get up from the recliner than trying to get in and out of a bed and also so I didn’t have to go up and down the stairs and also be on the same floor as the kitchen and a bathroom.  My niece went to the grocery store and bought me some microwave dinners and cans of soup, some ginger ale and some snacks - things that wouldn’t require much effort for me to make or eat.

I vaguely remember watching a lot of TV, mostly channel surfing those couple of days but not really remembering or understanding what I was watching. I felt like a zombie which I really didn’t like but at least I wasn’t in pain anymore – or, as is my theory with opioids – “you are still aware you have pain, but you just don’t care”. But it did the trick because after about 3 days in a fog and the pain and spasms finally subsiding, on the 4th day I was able to stand up for the first time in over a week and walk and on the 5th I went back to work and without taking any drugs.

I followed up with an orthopedic who after examining me and reading my X-rays which showed disk narrowing of L5 and L6, and proscribed an anti-inflammatory, more muscle relaxers and sent me to what he called “back school”, i.e. physical therapy.

But as he told me, it was important that the inflammation needed to go down somewhat and the severe spasms and pain needed to be somewhat better before going to PT, so he also wrote another Rx for Percocet (again with no refills) in case I needed them, which fortunately I didn’t – I never got the Rx filled.

The chief PT who spent a lot of time examining me and reading my X-rays told me something I didn’t know.

That not only was my pelvis tilted up and down but also side to side and that as a result caused my back muscles to over compensate and tighten more to one side than the other and that along with the disk narrowing and also with having very over developed and overly tight calf and hamstring muscles (I’d always did a lot of walking and at the time I was playing a lot of golf and mostly walking the course instead of riding in a cart, and doing a lot of walking for exercise and had recently joined a gym), was the cause of my back pain and muscle spasms.

I was in PT for the next couple of months – 2 to 3 times a week and along with the deep tissue massages, hydrotherapy, ultrasound therapy and manual muscle stretches, it was great as I also learned a lot about the stretches and core exercises that would help my problem and how to do them at home - what exercise to do and also importantly what exercises to avoid and even how to get in and out of a car and perform other daily tasks without twisting my back – it really was as my ortho said -  “back school”.

Pain meds, even opioids IMO are not “evil” and have their place and people who have debilitating painful, chronic and or untreatable or difficult to treat conditions, people with certain late stage and or terminal cancers and people with short term but extremely painful medical episodes, IMO shouldn’t suffer because some doctors irresponsibly proscribe them or some patients end up abusing them.

Imo and in my experience having been once married to an alcoholic, thankfully in recovery for the last 25+ years, but also having known some drug addicts, they will lie and cheat and steal and manipulate and game whatever system is in place, and do whatever it takes.

You could outlaw and eliminate all Rx opioids tomorrow and the drug addicts and those who supply them for profit will just come up with a different high.  And the people who legitimately need them and don’t abuse them will suffer the most for it.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2018, 09:10:45 pm »
I guess then you are assuming I told an untruth upthread, where I just wrote somebody got kicked off because the government intervened.  Specifically, the State Board informed the Doc he would have his license pulled if he prescribed the Hydrocodone.  I don't disagree the government drones who did that are mindless.

For want of a better phrase:  The state put itself between the patient and the Doctor.  They didn't even rely on the Insurance company to do it, as has been their practice in the past.  And there are people applauding that on this very forum. **nononono*
I am not applauding it.

I am encouraging folks should realize that some claimants, are addicted more-so, and legitimate pain-suffering less-so.

If you ask an addict,, if he needs his meds, he wail say of course he needs his meds.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2018, 09:13:18 pm »
I don't think anybody truly has a handle on the cause of that malady, so I tend not to trust in people who tell me they know exactly what it's all about.

No one knows because it can't be independently diagnosed. There is no blood test for it. You basically tell the doctor that you have it during the test. It's loosely referred to as "the brain attacking the body". That's why they sometimes treat it with anti-depressants, serotonin and the like, acupuncture and Yoga. You have to find a way to tell the brain to "knock that *** off".

Opioids just make the problem worse because you don't want to add addiction to the problem. That's why pain meds are not listed as a drug used to treat Fibro.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2018, 09:18:35 pm »
If you ask an addict,, if he needs his meds, he wail say of course he needs his meds.

If you ever want to hear some interesting things, sit in the waiting area of a Walmart pharmacy. Every couple of hours, someone will come in trying to get pain meds. Some of them are really freaking out and their explanations are crazy.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2018, 09:18:52 pm »
Some years ago ...

... drug addicts, they will lie and cheat and steal and manipulate and game whatever system is in place, and do whatever it takes.

You could outlaw and eliminate all Rx opioids tomorrow and the drug addicts and those who supply them for profit will just come up with a different high.  And the people who legitimately need them and don’t abuse them will suffer the most for it.

Well said. 

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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2018, 09:23:51 pm »
I am not applauding it.

I am encouraging folks should realize that some claimants, are addicted more-so, and legitimate pain-suffering less-so.

If you ask an addict,, if he needs his meds, he wail say of course he needs his meds.

...which is complicated by the fact a legitimate patient will say exactly the same thing.

It's helpful when the patient can produce a written log of his/her dosages.  It did not matter in the case I mentioned:  She had written down every single time she took a pain pill, and if it was a full or half dose, for years.  Didn't matter to the government drone who got between the Doctor and the patient without even looking at the records that existed.  (Drug addicts of the type living down at the beach generally don't log their med usage.  People who are trying to keep a handle on theirs keep logs to self-monitor.)

I'm not saying there are not a lot of people who lie about their pain med needs.  I'd even venture a guess that more than half are lying.  But, the current approach of deny, deny, deny is meting punishment out to people who don't deserve it.  My whole point here is that it's not as simple as many make it out to be, and the blunt instrument called "government" is probably the worst remedy that can be found.
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2018, 09:33:40 pm »
I don't think anybody truly has a handle on the cause of that malady, so I tend not to trust in people who tell me they know exactly what it's all about.

Yup. Doctors aren't Masters of Medicine.

Doctors are Practicing Medicine.

"Practicing"
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Re: Opioid Epidemic: What Brought Us Here?
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2018, 09:41:11 pm »
Yup. Doctors aren't Masters of Medicine.

Doctors are Practicing Medicine.

"Practicing"

I practice taking measurements in a lab (doing it as I write this, as a matter of fact).  Been at it for 25 years now, and I still learn new stuff.  It's practice, alright. :shrug:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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