Author Topic: Obituaries for 2018  (Read 160003 times)

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Offline Applewood

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #300 on: March 29, 2018, 07:46:49 pm »
Did I read right that Staub never made it to the Hall of Fame?

If so, that's an abomination, considering some of the inferior primadonnas who have been elected. 

Rest in peace, Mr. Staub. 

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #301 on: March 29, 2018, 08:13:45 pm »
Did I read right that Staub never made it to the Hall of Fame?

If so, that's an abomination, considering some of the inferior primadonnas who have been elected. 
@Applewood
If all you needed was character to make it to Cooperstown, Rusty Staub would have been a first-ballot choice. Unfortunately, you need playing
credentials, too, and Staub just didn't have those. I suspect injuries and two of his home ballparks probably took away whatever shot he had
at the Hall of Fame. He played four of his early prime seasons with the Astrodome as his home park; he went from a park that was killing him
to a park that was great for him in Montreal (Jarry Park); he went from there to another park that killed him (Shea Stadium); he went from
there to another park (Tiger Stadium) that was great for him, for three full seasons and part of a fourth; he went from there mostly to parks
that killed him again as he began aging. (Olympic Stadium briefly, Shea Stadium for his final five seasons.)

Essentially, Rusty Staub played thirteen of his 23 major league seasons in home parks that were terrible for him. If you could reverse that,
and put him into home parks that were good for him for those thirteen seasons, plus keeping him injury free, you might---might---have
an average Hall of Famer on your hands. As it was:

* He meets 38 of the Bill James Hall of Fame batting standards, where the average Hall of Famer meets 50.
* He scores 59 on the James Hall of Fame batting monitor; the average Hall of Famer scores 100.
* He has almost no black ink other than leading his league in doubles once and in games played twice. A lack of black ink won't keep a qualified
player out of the Hall of Fame, but Staub isn't one of those players.
* He hasn't got a lot of gray ink, either---finishing top ten in his league. His gray ink score is 89; the average Hall of Famer scores 144.
* According to Jay Jaffe's measurement of wins above a replacement level player, Staub is the 35th best right fielder in baseball history . . . but
his lifetime 45.8 WAR is 26.9 WAR below the average Hall of Fame right fielder.
* A guy who plays 23 seasons and comes up with those figures isn't close to a Hall of Famer, either.

A good player who was sometimes great. A very good man. Not a Hall of Famer, unfortunately. But he'll be remembered.


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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #302 on: March 29, 2018, 08:19:12 pm »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Restored

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #303 on: March 29, 2018, 08:20:52 pm »
I always considered him to be just a pretty good player, not a Hall of Famer. If he fielded like Rick Monday, he would be in.
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Offline Applewood

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #304 on: March 29, 2018, 08:30:53 pm »
@EasyAce

Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge of the HOF requirements.  I haven't been a baseball fan for years and really haven't kept up with stats and rules. 

Well, it looks like Staub was a generous individual off the field.  I happen to believe that the good he did in this life will mean a much better reward in the next life than membership in the HOF.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 08:32:34 pm by Applewood »

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #305 on: March 29, 2018, 08:41:16 pm »
@Applewood
If all you needed was character to make it to Cooperstown, Rusty Staub would have been a first-ballot choice. Unfortunately, you need playing
credentials, too, and Staub just didn't have those. I suspect injuries and two of his home ballparks probably took away whatever shot he had
at the Hall of Fame. He played four of his early prime seasons with the Astrodome as his home park; he went from a park that was killing him
to a park that was great for him in Montreal (Jarry Park); he went from there to another park that killed him (Shea Stadium); he went from
there to another park (Tiger Stadium) that was great for him, for three full seasons and part of a fourth; he went from there mostly to parks
that killed him again as he began aging. (Olympic Stadium briefly, Shea Stadium for his final five seasons.)

Essentially, Rusty Staub played thirteen of his 23 major league seasons in home parks that were terrible for him. If you could reverse that,
and put him into home parks that were good for him for those thirteen seasons, plus keeping him injury free, you might---might---have
an average Hall of Famer on your hands. As it was:

* He meets 38 of the Bill James Hall of Fame batting standards, where the average Hall of Famer meets 50.
* He scores 59 on the James Hall of Fame batting monitor; the average Hall of Famer scores 100.
* He has almost no black ink other than leading his league in doubles once and in games played twice. A lack of black ink won't keep a qualified
player out of the Hall of Fame, but Staub isn't one of those players.
* He hasn't got a lot of gray ink, either---finishing top ten in his league. His gray ink score is 89; the average Hall of Famer scores 144.
* According to Jay Jaffe's measurement of wins above a replacement level player, Staub is the 35th best right fielder in baseball history . . . but
his lifetime 45.8 WAR is 26.9 WAR below the average Hall of Fame right fielder.
* A guy who plays 23 seasons and comes up with those figures isn't close to a Hall of Famer, either.

A good player who was sometimes great. A very good man. Not a Hall of Famer, unfortunately. But he'll be remembered.

Quite a complex HOF induction system.  How does the 'roid factor work into the equation?
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Offline WingNot

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #306 on: March 29, 2018, 08:51:13 pm »
Killjoy.   ****slapping

He always has that nasty habit of clouding the issue with solid facts to back up his assertions.  I hate that.  I really do!

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #307 on: March 29, 2018, 08:51:36 pm »
Quite a complex HOF induction system.  How does the 'roid factor work into the equation?

Get caught with 'roids, all counters get set to zero?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #308 on: March 29, 2018, 08:57:57 pm »
Quite a complex HOF induction system.  How does the 'roid factor work into the equation?
@catfish1957
The 'roid factor as you call it wasn't a factor in Staub's career---but that doesn't mean baseball was immune to actual or alleged performance-enhancing
substances during his playing days. Greenies, anyone?


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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #309 on: March 29, 2018, 09:00:00 pm »
He always has that nasty habit of clouding the issue with solid facts to back up his assertions.  I hate that.  I really do!

@EasyAce
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"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline WingNot

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #310 on: March 29, 2018, 09:01:13 pm »
@catfish1957
The 'roid factor as you call it wasn't a factor in Staub's career---but that doesn't mean baseball was immune to actual or alleged performance-enhancing
substances during his playing days. Greenies, anyone?

Quote
  We’ve been running short of greenies.  We don’t get them from the trainer, because greenies are against club policy.  So we get them from players on other teams who have friends who are doctors, or friends who know where to get greenies.  One of our lads is going to have a bunch of greenies mailed to him by some of the guys on the Red Sox.  And to think you can spend five years in jail for giving your friend a marijuana cigarette.   
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #311 on: March 29, 2018, 09:19:46 pm »
@EasyAce

Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge of the HOF requirements.  I haven't been a baseball fan for years and really haven't kept up with stats and rules. 

Those aren't "requirements" so much as measurements Hall of Fame voters often use to determine who is or isn't truly a Hall of Famer.  Bill James
developed those measurements as a way of looking deeper into a player's game, particularly keeping in mind a way to let someone who didn't get
to see a player play evaluate his actual worth. One classic example: You take one guy who hit .303 lifetime and the other who hit .305 lifetime.
If that's all you look at, you think the guy who hit .305 was just a little more valuable and a little bit better than the guy who hit .303 lifetime.

Now, look a little deeper:

* The lifetime .305 player in my example produced 158 runs per 162 games.
* The lifetime .303 player produced 215 runs per 162 games.
* The lifetime .305 player was an early-in-the-order hitter; the lifetime .303 player was a number three or number four hitter.
* The lifetime .305 player has a .375 lifetime on-base percentage; the lifetime .303 player his a .383 lifetime on-base percentage.

The .305 player is Pete Rose. The .303 hitter is Willie Mays.

Or, how about a couple of lifetime .267 hitters, both of whom played defensive positions that drain you physically and mentally.

* Player One produced 208 runs per 162 games lifetime.
* Player Two produced 185 runs per 162 games lifetime.
* Player One has a .380 lifetime on-base percentage.
* Player Two has a .342 lifetime on-base percentage, even though he had far better teammates during his prime seasons than Player One.
* Both players had the same type of home ballpark in which to hit for most of their careers. (Player Two got to hit in a hitter's paradise of sorts
for his first four seasons.)

Player One in that example is Mike Schmidt. Player Two is Johnny Bench.

The Hall of Fame Monitors and Standards and Jay Jaffe's JAWS are just two ways to do it, but a diligent Hall of Fame voter will do his or her best to look
at the player's entire game, not just the surface.

Well, it looks like Staub was a generous individual off the field.  I happen to believe that the good he did in this life will mean a much better reward in the next life than membership in the HOF.
When you get a Hall of Fame caliber person in the same being as a Hall of Fame player, it's often a rare occurrence. Men like Honus Wagner, Christy Mathewson,
Walter Johnson, Lou Gehrig, Stan Musial, Jackie Robinson, Yogi Berra, Robin Roberts, Willie Mays, Ernie Banks, Hank Aaron, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Roberto
Clemente, Brooks Robinson (Around here, they don't name candy bars after Brooks, they name their children after him), Billy Williams, Jim Palmer, Monte
Irvin, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Tony Gwynn, and Gary Carter, among others, are the exceptions.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 09:21:24 pm by EasyAce »


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Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline SZonian

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #312 on: March 30, 2018, 08:39:57 pm »
Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #313 on: April 02, 2018, 12:57:46 am »
Steven Bochco, television writer and creator, dies at 74


Photo: Alan Light

Bochco, who was fortunate enough to secure work at Universal Studios as a writer before he even graduated college, is best known for his police procedural/serial series Hill Street Blues and NYPD Blue, as well as the legal drama L.A. Law and medical drama Doogie Howser, M.D.. Along the way, he was also responsible for two of the most notorious busts in television history: the musical police drama Cop Rock and the one-episode flop sitcom Public Morals. Bochco earned acclaim for pushing the limits of what was allowed on television during his time as a screenwriter, at one point exploiting the outrage NYPD Blue caused to pique curiosity in the show.

Bochco had suffered from leukemia for many years.

Obituary from the Hollywood Reporter

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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #314 on: April 02, 2018, 01:13:32 am »
For good or bad, Bocho was integral in shaping modern TV as we know it today.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #315 on: April 02, 2018, 01:18:23 am »
We watch NYPD Blue every day. Excellent acting.
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #316 on: April 02, 2018, 01:34:19 am »
For good or bad, Bocho was integral in shaping modern TV as we know it today.
If he'd given nothing more than Hill Street Blues, Mr. Bochco would have been a television immortal. RIP.


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Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline WingNot

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #317 on: April 02, 2018, 01:36:26 am »
We watch NYPD Blue every day. Excellent acting.

If I never see Sipowicz's ass again I will be a happy man.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #318 on: April 02, 2018, 01:47:45 am »
If I never see Sipowicz's ass again I will be a happy man.

Interesting that's what you remember.... :silly:

Offline mountaineer

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #319 on: April 02, 2018, 02:00:13 pm »
If I never see Sipowicz's ass again I will be a happy man.
That, I admit, is what I like least about the show. Too many bare buttocks.
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #320 on: April 02, 2018, 02:26:30 pm »
Interesting that's what you remember.... :silly:

Kim Delaney's buttocks on the other hand.....

Offline musiclady

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #321 on: April 02, 2018, 04:02:15 pm »
If he'd given nothing more than Hill Street Blues, Mr. Bochco would have been a television immortal. RIP.

Yep.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #322 on: April 02, 2018, 04:18:08 pm »
Winnie Madikizela-Mandela: Anti-apartheid campaigner dies at 81

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-43621112



I will light a tire in her memory.

Offline WingNot

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #323 on: April 02, 2018, 04:19:13 pm »
Interesting that's what you remember.... :silly:

I've heard you say "He's No Bobby Simone" a few time darling!   :)
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Offline WingNot

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Re: Obituaries for 2018
« Reply #324 on: April 02, 2018, 04:20:52 pm »
Winnie Madikizela-Mandela: Anti-apartheid campaigner dies at 81

I will light a tire in her memory.

A fine and fitting tribute to what they have done to SA in the interim.
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."