New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men

[roamer_1]

I guess that is the underlying question: how would Christ regard homosexuals?  I have no doubt He would love them.  But would He regard them as in need of repentance?  Or would He recognize gay love as "love" in the biblical sense.  I simply don't know for certain.  The Christ I understand in my heart would perform gay marriages.  But the one I read about in the pages of the New Testament would not.  That, for me, is my conundrum.  Nonetheless, it doesn't matter what the majority of people in the church I attend think.

@massadvj
This is precisely how men will convince themselves to embrace the abomination that causes desolation.

The 'christ' in your heart cannot be the Christ. The two are diametrically opposed. In fact, if the Christ you see in the New Testament is different from the Christ you see in the old, then even in that is disparity. Confusion.

[Idiot]

Which is odd because most people don't believe that. Most people believe they started becoming romantically attracted after a certain age.
Saying that attractions are genetic is ridiculous. There is a genetic predisposition to be attracted to bikers or women in leggings? Not only that, attractions change over time.

Tell me about it....I have this uncontrollable attraction to Doritos.  Not to worry...I'm seeking help.  ^-^

[Idiot]

@massadvj
I'm not sure I understand, if you believe the Bible is the word of God but then you don't believe in what it says?  The Bible shows Jesus would treat all people with love but that doesn't mean he would condone sin.

The old testament defines marriage and establishes that sex is between 1 man and 1 woman in marriage.  The NT affirms this.  Its not about hate its about God setting up his law and us doing our best to follow them.

God destroyed an entire city because of it's sexual immorality.  I'd say He takes this pretty seriously.....

[Restored]

And I cannot believe, will not believe, that He would consider homosexuals in monogamous, covenant relationships to be abominations.   

Why just monogamous, covenant relationships? Do you think Jesus would hate people who chose to have an occasional fling? How intolerant.

[Smokin Joe]

@massadvj
I'm not sure I understand, if you believe the Bible is the word of God but then you don't believe in what it says?  The Bible shows Jesus would treat all people with love but that doesn't mean he would condone sin.

The old testament defines marriage and establishes that sex is between 1 man and 1 woman in marriage.  The NT affirms this.  Its not about hate its about God setting up his law and us doing our best to follow them.

Precisely, and well said.

[Sanguine]

Precisely, and well said.

Yes, it is.

[Jazzhead]

Why just monogamous, covenant relationships? Do you think Jesus would hate people who chose to have an occasional fling? How intolerant.

Adultery is sinful.  It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner.  It is, in short, a betrayal. 

A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO.  Obviously,  that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations.   Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock.   It certainly drove me away.   But, then again, as some here point out,  I'm not "good folks".     

[Sanguine]

Adultery is sinful.  It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner.  It is, in short, a betrayal. 

A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO.  Obviously,  that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations.   Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock.   It certainly drove me away.   But, then again, as some here point out,  I'm not "good folks".   

That's certainly an interesting way of looking at things, Jazzy.  But, we all tend to want things the way we want them to be, whether right or wrong.

[musiclady]

Adultery is sinful.  It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner.  It is, in short, a betrayal. 

A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO.  Obviously,  that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations.   Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock.   It certainly drove me away.   But, then again, as some here point out,  I'm not "good folks".   

It's not bigotry that drove you away.

It's Scriptural truth that you decided not to accept.

[Jazzhead]

It's not bigotry that drove you away.

It's Scriptural truth that you decided not to accept.

One of my friends, who's been with his partner for over 20 years and is the salt of the earth,  was rejected by his own family on the basis of that "Scriptural truth".   

I've seen firsthand what damage is caused by this "Scriptural truth".   

And you can forgive me for calling it by its rightful name.   

 

[musiclady]

One of my friends, who's been with his partner for over 20 years and is the salt of the earth,  was rejected by his own family on the basis of that "Scriptural truth".   

I've seen firsthand what damage is caused by this "Scriptural truth".   

And you can forgive me for calling it by its rightful name.

Sorry, friend, but God isn't a bigot.

What human beings do to ruin relationships because someone is doing something they don't approve of, is an entirely different thing than being obedient to all of Scripture, and treating sinners (that would be everyone) with love, but still recognizing the truth of the sin.

What you continue to do (as do all who reject God's truth) is that you look at sinful human beings for your evidence, and not at the Word of God, itself, God's character, and the person of Jesus Christ.

As long as you look at sinners to guide your opinions, you will believe what you feel like believing, as you reject Scriptural truth.

Fix your eyes on Jesus, and all this confusion and anger will end.

[roamer_1]

Adultery is sinful.  It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner.  It is, in short, a betrayal. 

A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO.  Obviously,  that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations.   Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock.   It certainly drove me away.   But, then again, as some here point out,  I'm not "good folks".   

The purpose of marriage is symbolic of Christ and his Church. Male and female, with all of the ensuing descriptive parameters as ordained in Torah following. It is an image - A picture in so many dimensions as to be nearly infinite. Just as God, describing himself as Father, is an image.

Coloring is to be done within the lines, or the picture is ruined.
And no, you don't get to make your own picture, or it is in your image rather than God's.

[driftdiver]

Thanks for your thoughtful response,  massadvj

This,  for me, is the bottom line - what would Jesus do?   And I cannot believe, will not believe, that He would consider homosexuals in monogamous, covenant relationships to be abominations.   And that the Christ I understand in my heart would indeed perform gay marriages.   

.....

@Jazzhead

Fortunately we don't to have rely on rumor or guessing.  We have historical documents from people that were there who can tell us what Jesus did and said.   Those tell us he affirmed the OT writings in this regard.  Marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman.

[driftdiver]

Adultery is sinful.  It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner.  It is, in short, a betrayal. 

A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO.  Obviously,  that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations.   Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock.   It certainly drove me away.   But, then again, as some here point out,  I'm not "good folks".   

@Jazzhead
Adultry is sinful because it goes against Gods laws. 

[roamer_1]

One of my friends, who's been with his partner for over 20 years and is the salt of the earth,  was rejected by his own family on the basis of that "Scriptural truth".   

I've seen firsthand what damage is caused by this "Scriptural truth".   

And you can forgive me for calling it by its rightful name.

Ahh, so it's the family's fault, eh?

[Smokin Joe]

Adultery is sinful.  It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner.  It is, in short, a betrayal. 

A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO.  Obviously,  that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations.   Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock.   It certainly drove me away.   But, then again, as some here point out,  I'm not "good folks".   

Does that mean if two Orthodox Jews eat pork together it's Kosher?

 

[Jazzhead]

Ahh, so it's the family's fault, eh?

I decline to be part of a religious community that practices bigotry and advocates cruelty.   I'd rather follow Christ outside the context of that community.     

[driftdiver]

I decline to be part of a religious community that practices bigotry and advocates cruelty.   I'd rather follow Christ outside the context of that community.   

@Jazzhead
By your rules Jesus is bigoted.    Since he will sit in judgement on us and send us to hell I guess you'd call him cruel too.

I'd urge you to rethink your position.  Seek some counseling from a qualified pastor not a feel good wannabe.

[Restored]

Adultery is sinful.  It is sinful because it represents the breaking of an oath, the breaking of faith with one's partner.  It is, in short, a betrayal. 

A gay couple in an enduring monogamous relationship is not sinful, IMO.  Obviously,  that view of mine is hardly authoritative, and the usual suspects will condemn such couples as perverts and abominations.   Well, it is that kind of bigotry that is driving good folks from the flock.   It certainly drove me away.   But, then again, as some here point out,  I'm not "good folks".   

It's not driving good people away. There are no good people. Even Jesus said that. The problem comes when we decide things are "good" based on our own desires. It used to be that slavery was "good". Jim Crow was "good". That's because "good" is subjective.
Scripture is not subjective. It doesn't bend to our desires. It only drives away people who say "My ways are better than God's ways".  It turns them over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh. They prefer the darkness where things can be hidden. When Scripture opposes their desires, they flee from it.
I was driven out of the church because I am a conservative. So I went to a church that doesn't shy away from the hard parts of Scripture like my previous church. It says what it says.

[Restored]

I decline to be part of a religious community that practices bigotry and advocates cruelty.   I'd rather follow Christ outside the context of that community.   

I bet you are part of a religious community that practices bigotry and advocates cruelty. It just practices bigotry and advocates cruelty that you agree with.
Our local Unitarian church condemned churches that practice bigotry and advocate cruelty. IOW they were bigoted against people who disagree with them. They mocked and denigrated other churches that didn't practice their form of tolerance. When I pointed out their intolerance in their sermons they posted online, they took the sermons off-line.

[roamer_1]

I decline to be part of a religious community that practices bigotry and advocates cruelty.   I'd rather follow Christ outside the context of that community.   

I don't care about the church necessarily - Though you paint with a broad brush.
It is the Word that I care about, which you inevitably must call bigoted and cruel... removing law, which removes both discernment and judgement... Which in turn, removes the need for a Savior. In which case, why do you follow at all, and where does it go? There is nothing left to follow.

[musiclady]

I don't care about the church necessarily - Though you paint with a broad brush.
It is the Word that I care about, which you inevitably must call bigoted and cruel... removing law, which removes both discernment and judgement... Which in turn, removes the need for a Savior. In which case, why do you follow at all, and where does it go? There is nothing left to follow.

 

[Restored]

I had a friend who used to complain about drunk drivers all the time. Then he got a DUI. Suddenly, the police were jackboots who illegally detained people who weren't hurting anyone but just had a few drinks.

The law points out the duplicity of man. Grace is worthless to the man who isn't doing anything wrong.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I don't care about the church necessarily - Though you paint with a broad brush.
It is the Word that I care about, which you inevitably must call bigoted and cruel... removing law, which removes both discernment and judgement... Which in turn, removes the need for a Savior. In which case, why do you follow at all, and where does it go? There is nothing left to follow.

He has never understood that a conservative first and foremost is a social conservative, meaning one has to have morality and is subject to specific rules which the Creator made for us to live by.  After that, one uses that foundation to establish fiscal conservatism, or any other type of conservatism to complete what is called a 'conservative'.

If one does not establish the base foundation, the rest is useless.

[Jazzhead]

He has never understood that a conservative first and foremost is a social conservative, meaning one has to have morality and is subject to specific rules which the Creator made for us to live by.  After that, one uses that foundation to establish fiscal conservatism, or any other type of conservatism to complete what is called a 'conservative'.

If one does not establish the base foundation, the rest is useless.

I agree that a conservative needs to have a firm moral grounding, and to try his/her level best to live in accordance with such moral grounding on a daily basis.   The Church, can, of course, provide such a grounding.

But a "social conservative" has a specific political meaning, and includes the idea that the government enforce "Biblical" morality,  including behavior that can objectively be seen as victimless.   That's certainly not what many conservatives believe - many want government to be essentially limited, and to keep its nose out of the bedroom as well as the boardroom.   The government, of course, has a role to play with respect to the redress of rights violations,  and to administer the law fairly and in accordance with the principle of equal protection.   But too many social conservatives, like Roy Moore, scoff at the notion of equal protection, at least with respect to folks unlike themselves.    The Constitutional separation of church and state is one of the pillars of our Republic,  and must be defended against those who would prefer a theocracy.