Author Topic: Pastor says Roy Moore was seeking the 'purity of a young woman'  (Read 32927 times)

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Offline Bigun

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How strange that your loyalty to Moore has made you turn against those with differing opinions......

If you say so.  And this Moore episode has indeed riped the masks right off of some here.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline musiclady

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I don't find it disturbing at all within it's context. If Moore went to go courting a virgin for the purpose of marriage, there ain't nothing wrong with that. And as @Smokin Joe already opined, anything his own age was bound to be gone by the time he got home, 10 years late to the party. Most anything worth having was married with a few kids by then.

And secondly, it was another time - My own father, in his late 20's courted and married my mother when she was 17 (you do the math for the courting time). To convict Moore, then my own father is a pervert too. And his case is by no means rare in his generation. A good gal at the time would set her sights on a man who could provide, and that ain't a boy of 18.

So no. Take the modern spin off of this, and understand country courting, and there ain't a dang thing wrong, beyond the accusations of force and underage, which are punched full of holes and weren't believable in the first place.

Another time????    :shrug:  Roy Moore is 2 years older than I am, and I can tell you this........ that a man's seeking out 16 year olds when we were both in our thirties would have been bad news for any responsible parent.

And I completely reject the "there's no one else available so I have to date kids" argument.   There are women who want good men who haven't found a mate yet who are in the appropriate age range.   Especially in the time we're talking about.  There were LOTS more pure older women 35 years ago than there are now.  LOTS.

We're not talking about his being smitten with an 18 year old, falling in love, courting and marrying.   From the sounds of it, he was looking to date girls when he was a grown man, and this pastor is making excuses for it.

You can spin all you want, but this is very disturbing to most adults, and especially to parents.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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If you say so.  And this Moore episode has indeed riped the masks right off of some here.

Ripped off the mask of equal standards for our guys as well as theirs?

It certainly has......

I ain't no liberal, my friend, and I find this 'defense' deeply troubling.

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Bigun

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Ripped off the mask of equal standards for our guys as well as theirs?

It certainly has......

I ain't no liberal, my friend, and I find this 'defense' deeply troubling.

So go join the lynch mob!  They aren't hard to find!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline roamer_1

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Another time????    :shrug:  Roy Moore is 2 years older than I am, and I can tell you this........ that a man's seeking out 16 year olds when we were both in our thirties would have been bad news for any responsible parent.

And I completely reject the "there's no one else available so I have to date kids" argument.   There are women who want good men who haven't found a mate yet who are in the appropriate age range.   Especially in the time we're talking about.  There were LOTS more pure older women 35 years ago than there are now.  LOTS.

We're not talking about his being smitten with an 18 year old, falling in love, courting and marrying.   From the sounds of it, he was looking to date girls when he was a grown man, and this pastor is making excuses for it.

You can spin all you want, but this is very disturbing to most adults, and especially to parents.

No ma'am. That ain't right, not by a long shot in a rural country town.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 11:03:23 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline musiclady

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So go join the lynch mob!  They aren't hard to find!

I hope you realize that you're making NO sense.

You just don't want anyone to pay attention and keep an open mind, but that's not going to work with me.

You can't intimidate me with your hyperbolic, emotional nonsense.

I'm interested in character, and you know it.  I'm not invested one way or the other in this person you are so attached to.

I'm more invested in honor than politics, and I'm not back off the legitimate questions because you're trying to intimidate me.

So deal with it.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline jpsb

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Moore has no honor.

Moore graduated from West Point back when West Point had a very strict honor code. I think
it is a tad over board to say he has no honor. 

It could be that 40 years ago he screwed up. However since being born again he's been an
exemplary gentleman. While I don't believe the accusations of the 14 year old I can forgive him
even if they are truth. Sometimes people do change but if they were true I believe Moore would
fess up.

Silver Pines

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goopo

I've seen shades of TOS in the angry responses to ANY questions about Moore, as well.

And as more "friends" speak up on his behalf, it looks more and more like he is guilty, IMO.

Keep up the thoughtful questions and information, @CatherineofAragon .  It is appreciated.

@musiclady

Thank you.  Please don’t hesitate to jerk my collar if my temper gets up.

Offline Bigun

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I hope you realize that you're making NO sense.

You just don't want anyone to pay attention and keep an open mind, but that's not going to work with me.

You can't intimidate me with your hyperbolic, emotional nonsense.

I'm interested in character, and you know it.  I'm not invested one way or the other in this person you are so attached to.

I'm more invested in honor than politics, and I'm not back off the legitimate questions because you're trying to intimidate me.

So deal with it.

I hope you realize that it is YOU who are not making any sense here!  I've seen this crap pulled several times before and I'm not about to stand by silent and watch it happen yet again!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline musiclady

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@musiclady I posted a vid in the thread Stone Roy Moore. Have a look at it and let me know
what you think.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,292221.msg1522732/topicseen.html#msg1522732

Some decent points.   He doesn't know if he's guilty or not.  (Nor do I).  He thinks the more disturbing part if he's guilty is that he's lying (I think both are pretty wicked).   Crazy comparison with Jesus Christ and the false accusations (since he doesn't really know that the accusations are false).

The rest is a rant against the GOP establishment (no problem there), against sodomy, etc.  The stoning theme really doesn't apply very well from a logical, theological perspective, though.

Altogether, a pretty incoherent, ranting sermon there.  If he's a pastor I'm glad I don't have to listen to him on Sundays and try to take notes on his sermons.

Yikes. 

@jpsb
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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I hope you realize that it is YOU who are not making any sense here!  I've seen this crap pulled several times before and I'm not about to stand by silent and watch it happen yet again!

Au contraire....... it is not I who am emotionally involved with Roy Moore.

You may disagree with every word I've said, but it is rational, and makes a great deal of sense.

I would suggest that you calm down before you blow a gasket.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline truth_seeker

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A couple who were very close friends of my wife and I since the early 70s, were around 30 and 18 respectively when they wed.

He from Pennsylvania via the US Air Force, and she from Indiana.

He is dead, and she remains a close friend. For her next husband, she went for an older man again.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Fantom

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@cato potatoe

That's true.  But the fact remains that a man in his thirties who only wants girls that age, and who hangs out trying to pick them up, is not normal.

The most serious issue is the 14 year old.

Who even the mother of..says was lying...phone home.  Otherwise, any proof there  ... because Y'a K'no some actual proof is the Conservative way. Just weeks before an election, unsubstantiated allegations..like this is the Democrat/regressive way.

Not sayin' you are a regressive..but you are sowing the wind, with no regard for truth...whatever it may be.
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

Frederick Douglass

Offline musiclady

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@musiclady

Thank you.  Please don’t hesitate to jerk my collar if my temper gets up.

It's easy to have happen when you're being attacked.

Just walk away and calm down.  No sense in letting their emotion become yours.

BOTH sides of this discussion need to continue in a rational manner.   Otherwise this place is no different from TOS......

@CatherineofAragon
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 11:21:14 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Fantom

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A couple who were very close friends of my wife and I since the early 70s, were around 30 and 18 respectively when they wed.

He from Pennsylvania via the US Air Force, and she from Indiana.

He is dead, and she remains a close friend. For her next husband, she went for an older man again.

I got an e-mail from a Senior (I.E. over 60) dating site when I was 46... cradle robbers.  :smokin:
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

Frederick Douglass

Offline musiclady

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A couple who were very close friends of my wife and I since the early 70s, were around 30 and 18 respectively when they wed.

He from Pennsylvania via the US Air Force, and she from Indiana.

He is dead, and she remains a close friend. For her next husband, she went for an older man again.

The May/September relationship is not the real issue here.  The seeking out underage teenage girls (IF it occurred) is the problem.

The more vociferously he is defended, the more apparent it is that he did more than just fall in love with and marry someone younger.  That is a different matter entirely.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Fantom

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Another time????    :shrug:  Roy Moore is 2 years older than I am, and I can tell you this........ that a man's seeking out 16 year olds when we were both in our thirties would have been bad news for any responsible parent.

And I completely reject the "there's no one else available so I have to date kids" argument.   There are women who want good men who haven't found a mate yet who are in the appropriate age range.   Especially in the time we're talking about.  There were LOTS more pure older women 35 years ago than there are now.  LOTS.

We're not talking about his being smitten with an 18 year old, falling in love, courting and marrying.   From the sounds of it, he was looking to date girls when he was a grown man, and this pastor is making excuses for it.

You can spin all you want, but this is very disturbing to most adults, and especially to parents.

Does not appear he was "seeking " them out for sex, but rather Marriage. Not that weird. In fact he married one he met when she was 15.. married her at what 22 when he was what 34,,,Meh  :shrug: ....

... I have no problem with this.
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

Frederick Douglass

Offline Fantom

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The May/September relationship is not the real issue here.  The seeking out underage teenage girls (IF it occurred) is the problem.

The more vociferously he is defended, the more apparent it is that he did more than just fall in love with and marry someone younger.  That is a different matter entirely.

If you can prove under age..I.E. 16 years old do so. Otherwise, you are wagging your tongue. Not very Christian.
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

Frederick Douglass

Offline andy58-in-nh

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I might but first you must tell me what you consider to be a "reputable" news site these days!  Will only the NY Times, The WaPo, or SE BS do it for you?

No... any historically fair, balanced, and conservative-friendly site will do.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Online Sighlass

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I'm sorry, but as a mother who has raised daughters, I find this friend's supposed testimonial on Moore's behalf extremely disturbing.

A thirty something man wanting to date my 16 year old daughter because she's "pure?"

That should be disturbing to any parent.

And yet it won't faze those who are seemingly emotionally in need of defending him.

There is something very wrong with the things being said in his defense.   I'm still withholding final judgment, but the more I hear the more disturbing this man's ethics become.

My younger sister went out on her senior prom with a 30 y/o man. A man that went to church with us, that mom approved of and with my sister's consent. She ended up not liking him, and he moved on to other pastures. But it happened, and she was no dummy, Valedictorian in HS and college. She always dated older men come to think of it. Never married. Regrets not having children now but put her career above all else.

I in my mid-20s dated a couple of teenagers, one I married 3 or 4 years later. My memory is not my strong point now days. I also was looking for a pure Christian lady. I lucked up on my wife, she is my better half. We have been married 25 years or so. I wasn't the most mature person at the time we started dating I must admit. I think women just mature sooner than some of us fellow.

My wife dated a fellow my age before we started dating. It was a memory she does not like to recall. It didn't end on a good note. Her dad had committed suicide years earlier, and she didn't have the greatest home life. She was looking forward to marriage. It was me that had cold feet. I was still fixing up the old house when we married. Some rough early years that I wouldn't trade for anything in the world now.

Anyhoo, just saying, yes the premise of dating younger women has been around. I have 4 children now, all boys, would I let them date someone that much older, probable not. I understand where you are coming from, but I also understand it was a different era. I live it, and can't say I would of done much different because I got a peach of a wife that has been a blessing from God.

_________________________________ @musiclady

That said, I think you're one of my fave posters here. We differ opinions here, but so what. I enjoy your posts and have learned a lot from them.

What about the 14y/o that I didn't mention? Well they are just now starting to dig into that deeper. Let's see where it leads...

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/21/court-documents-raise-significant-questions-leigh-corfmans-accusations-roy-moore/
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 11:39:10 pm by Sighlass »
Exodus 18:21 Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders over ....

Offline jpsb

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Some decent points.   He doesn't know if he's guilty or not.  (Nor do I).  He thinks the more disturbing part if he's guilty is that he's lying (I think both are pretty wicked).   Crazy comparison with Jesus Christ and the false accusations (since he doesn't really know that the accusations are false).

The rest is a rant against the GOP establishment (no problem there), against sodomy, etc.  The stoning theme really doesn't apply very well from a logical, theological perspective, though.

Altogether, a pretty incoherent, ranting sermon there.  If he's a pastor I'm glad I don't have to listen to him on Sundays and try to take notes on his sermons.

Yikes. 

@jpsb

@musiclady

Thank you for taking the time to watch and letting me know what you think. Thanks again.

Offline Bigun

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The May/September relationship is not the real issue here.  The seeking out underage teenage girls (IF it occurred) is the problem.

And to this very moment there has not been a single shred of actual evidence that it did!  None! Zero! NADA!

Quote
The more vociferously he is defended, the more apparent it is that he did more than just fall in love with and marry someone younger.  That is a different matter entirely.

That does not compute with me!  Why does his being actively defended point in any particular direction?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 11:30:41 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Fantom

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And to this very moment there has not been a single shred of actual evidence that it did!  None! Zero! NADA!

That does not compute with me!  Why does his being actively defended point in any particular direction?

Right on both points Bigun.   :beer:

It is both a sham and shame. It is a shame that this democrat/regressive sham is so vociferously espoused here... sometimes, reading these posts...I think I have tuned into MSNBC... or a Joy Behar rant.
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

Frederick Douglass

Offline Frank Cannon

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Online Sighlass

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@Bigun

New poll up that says Roy is up by 6 points now... but no links to the actual poll (so I don't hold it endearing)... The previous poll only had Moore up by 2 points.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/22/exclusive-another-alabama-poll-roy-moore-leads-democrat-jones-six-points/
Exodus 18:21 Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders over ....