Author Topic: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues  (Read 2302 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« on: November 16, 2017, 02:21:46 pm »
Hot Air
Jazz Shaw
Nov. 16, 2017

A couple of weeks ago we learned that opponents of ethanol mandates weren’t going to quietly slink off the stage just because President Trump and Scott Pruitt were backing up the Renewable Fuel Standard. While this subject isn’t sexy enough to be making headlines on cable news these days, the fight is continuing unabated. The previous incident arose from Senator Joni Ernst blocking the nomination of EPA air chief Bill Wehrum and threatening to work with her Iowa partner Chuck Grassley to block others unless the RFS was fully protected.

More... https://hotair.com/archives/2017/11/16/ted-cruz-vs-iowans-battle-continues/

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 02:24:26 pm »
Ted Cruz, the principled politician.

What a breath of fresh air.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,586
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 02:31:02 pm »
Ted Cruz, the principled politician.

What a breath of fresh air.

Ain't it though!  And the establishment is bound and determined to see that there is not another!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 02:51:09 pm »
Ted Cruz, the principled politician.


Yes...

...but...

...he's representing the interests of his state.



Offline Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,763
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 03:11:06 pm »
The thing is, the ethanol mandate hasn't done much to prop up corn prices. In fact alot of farmers have a difficult time making money at low $3 prices.

The ag industry needs to innovate and find new uses for ag products. While farmers can be some of the best businessmen in the world, they can also seem to willfully stubborn and unwilling to change. They are desperately clinging to ethanol and won't even try to look at any other kind of value-added ag.

So you got the corn lobby doing what they can to prop up the RFS that needs to go and should have never been put in place.
The Republic is lost.

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 03:24:42 pm »
The thing is, the ethanol mandate hasn't done much to prop up corn prices. In fact alot of farmers have a difficult time making money at low $3 prices.

The ag industry needs to innovate and find new uses for ag products. While farmers can be some of the best businessmen in the world, they can also seem to willfully stubborn and unwilling to change. They are desperately clinging to ethanol and won't even try to look at any other kind of value-added ag.

So you got the corn lobby doing what they can to prop up the RFS that needs to go and should have never been put in place.


Who are the corn lobby? Is it true that a majority of farmers are being stubborn or are there other interests behind this?



Offline Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,763
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 03:38:48 pm »

Who are the corn lobby? Is it true that a majority of farmers are being stubborn or are there other interests behind this?

Other interests yes, but all connected to the ag industry. The enviroloons don't support ethanol anymore and I don't know anyone else that has a dog in the fight.

The real leverage revolves around Iowa's first-in-the-nation status in the Presidential nomination contest. Were that not there, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 07:11:47 pm by Free Vulcan »
The Republic is lost.

Offline goatprairie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,955
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 06:56:39 pm »
I don't know about the corn lobby, but I'll bet the small engine repair lobby is pro ethanol. I had to take three small engines in to get fixed. After which the guy who fixed them said his business boomed after ethanol was added to gasoline.

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 07:08:54 pm »
I don't know about the corn lobby, but I'll bet the small engine repair lobby is pro ethanol. I had to take three small engines in to get fixed. After which the guy who fixed them said his business boomed after ethanol was added to gasoline.


I haven't had that problem with two B&S engines. Maybe they have the right seals for ethanol.



Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 07:53:14 pm »

Yes...

...but...

...he's representing the interests of his state.
Why do you include a 'but' when you say that?

Are you suggesting that an elected politician from a state NOT follow the interests of his state?

Or exactly what are you saying?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 08:17:39 pm »
Why do you include a 'but' when you say that?

Are you suggesting that an elected politician from a state NOT follow the interests of his state?

Or exactly what are you saying?

I'm saying that it's not just a matter of principle.


Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2017, 04:03:31 am »
I'm saying that it's not just a matter of principle.
Can we agree he is a principled representative of his state's interests?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Cripplecreek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,718
  • Gender: Male
  • Constitutional Extremist
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2017, 04:58:37 am »
Why do you include a 'but' when you say that?

Are you suggesting that an elected politician from a state NOT follow the interests of his state?

Or exactly what are you saying?

Representing the interests of their states was exactly what our founders intended for senators. Representatives are to represent the interests of their districts.

Notice there is no intended representation for the feds in congress?

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2017, 05:09:41 am »
Can we agree he is a principled representative of his state's interests?


Sure.



Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,738
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2017, 07:36:00 am »

Who are the corn lobby? Is it true that a majority of farmers are being stubborn or are there other interests behind this?
Former Governor Branstad's son was (is?) a lobbyist for the Ethanol manufacturer's lobby. It is big money for a market mandated product niche. Few other products are mandated by the Feds in precise minimum quantity, because the mandate specifies how many gallons of ethanol are to be blended into the nation's fuel supply, regardless of how much fuel is sold, and without regard for the alcohol percentage in the fuel.
There is no maximum alcohol percentage in the law (the 10% blend wall is just where auto manufacturers warranties quit), but there is a minimum amount of ethanol that has to be blended in. Note that aviation fuels are exempt from the requirement: it's unsafe, and a plane cannot just pull over if the engine conks out.
As for Cruz representing oil company interests, that might play to the masses, but you'd be ignoring the millions and millions of dollars those same oil companies have invested, pumped into developing "renewable" fuels, made from everything from switchgrass to pond scum. This includes majors like Exxon/Mobil and BP; the ads were there if you listened. Yep, oil is still the moneymaker, but they were positioning themselves for future mandates and market share--and spending a lot to do so. There may even have been some grant money in all that.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 07:43:18 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,586
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2017, 02:39:49 pm »
The Ethanol mandate is just a recent iteration of the age old business practice in Washington!  "If you can't sell it on it's own merits in the marketplace pay off enough government whores to get the purchase of it mandated by law!"

I could give you a few more examples that come readily to mind but you get the picture.
 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2017, 02:48:03 pm »
The Ethanol mandate is just a recent iteration of the age old business practice in Washington!  "If you can't sell it on it's own merits in the marketplace pay off enough government whores to get the purchase of it mandated by law!"

I could give you a few more examples that come readily to mind but you get the picture.

True.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,738
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2017, 07:43:13 pm »
The Ethanol mandate is just a recent iteration of the age old business practice in Washington!  "If you can't sell it on it's own merits in the marketplace pay off enough government whores to get the purchase of it mandated by law!"

I could give you a few more examples that come readily to mind but you get the picture.
Modern day feather merchants, partly in homage to their global warming crap.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,586
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2017, 07:47:21 pm »
Modern day feather merchants, partly in homage to their global warming crap.

Which is itself a scam to drain taxpayer money off into their private coffers!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2017, 08:18:07 pm »
Ted has complained against action against NAFTA but almost every farming community complains if NAFTA is breached or watered-down or nullified.

Offline Frank Cannon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,097
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2017, 08:21:51 pm »
Ted has complained against action against NAFTA but almost every farming community complains if NAFTA is breached or watered-down or nullified.

I don't believe a more baffling and inconsequential post has ever been made on this forum. Nice work Tom.

Offline Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,763
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2017, 08:22:58 pm »
Modern day feather merchants, partly in homage to their global warming crap.

I grew up rural and around farmers and the farm economy all my life, waded deep into Iowa politics, and have a financial/economic background, so I'm not ignorant of innerworkings of agribusiness and added-value ag - or the politics. What the ethanol thing really boils down to is the collective memory of the Rust Belt days and even the Great Depression, as farming is a family as well as business where the average age is well over 50.

To put it simple - the farmers are scared. Scared we'll have another price bust like the 80's. Ironic because what got them in trouble then is getting them in trouble now - speculating on land and creating a price bubble. Add to that a different cost structure than yesteryear and they are very much worried about getting squeezed. In fact it's already happening.

So they stubbornly cling to ethanol and the RFS because it does represent demand, and though ethanol hasn't propped up corn, they're worried if it goes commodity prices will crater. And with yields always trending up due to scientific advancement, it means mass failures and bankruptcies that will ripple way beyond the farmer's bottom line.

Problem is, as innovating as farmers can be, they can be just as stubborn, not wanting to look ahead and change. We need other added value ag ventures and technologies to take up that demand, but most farmers won't budge on them. Part of that is there have been many scams over the years, but the other part is farmers have gotten lazy with commodity farming, and don't want to make the extra effort of finding a niche.

Something's got to give, and I'm afraid it won't fall on the good side. My gut says the RFS isn't going to be around much longer, and woe to the farmers that are hitching their wagons to it and refuse to let go.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 08:25:01 pm by Free Vulcan »
The Republic is lost.

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,586
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2017, 08:27:24 pm »
I grew up rural and around farmers and the farm economy all my life, waded deep into Iowa politics, and have a financial/economic background, so I'm not ignorant of innerworkings of agribusiness and added-value ag. What the ethanol thing really boils down to is the collective memory of the Rust Belt days and even the Great Depression, as farming is a family as well as business where the average age is well over 50.

To put it simple - the farmers are scared. Scared we'll have another price bust like the 80's. Ironic because what got them in trouble then is getting them in trouble now - speculating on land and creating a price bubble. Add to that a different cost structure than yesteryear and they are very much worried about getting squeezed. In fact it's already happening.

So they stubbornly cling to ethanol and the RFS because it does represent demand, and though ethanol hasn't propped up corn, they're worried if it goes commodity prices will crater. And with yields always trending up due to scientific advancement, it means mass failures and bankruptcies that will ripple way beyond the farmer's bottom line.

Problem is, as innovating as farmers can be, they can be just as stubborn, not wanting to look ahead and change. We need other added value ag ventures and technologies to take up that demand, but most farmers won't budge on them. Part of that is there have been many scams over the years, but the other part is farmers have gotten lazy with commodity farming, and don't want to make the extra effort of finding a niche.

Something's got to give, and I'm afraid it won't fall on the good side. My gut says the RFS isn't going to be around much longer, and woe to the farmers that are hitching their wagons to it and refuse to let go.

@Free Vulcan

To me, the ethanol mandate is just one more in a LONG series of object lessons on the absolute truth of the idea that government should keep it's damned meddling hands OFF of the marketplace and let it work it's magic!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,763
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2017, 08:35:05 pm »
@Free Vulcan

To me, the ethanol mandate is just one more in a LONG series of object lessons on the absolute truth of the idea that government should keep it's damned meddling hands OFF of the marketplace and let it work it's magic!

Yes and yes again. Not only for principle's (and taxpayer's) sake, but for the the simple fact it may be gone tomorrow. Why anyone would build an entire industry on something that can be taken away by the govt in a heartbeat blows my mind. Wind and solar - same example.

The attitudes are so lazy anymore. Great grandpa used to grow many things to be profitable so that he was not only insulated from market swings, but the govt as well. We need more old school like that v. this post-FDR subsidy thinking that passes for farming today.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,738
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Ted Cruz vs the Iowans. The battle continues
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2017, 10:03:11 pm »
Yes and yes again. Not only for principle's (and taxpayer's) sake, but for the the simple fact it may be gone tomorrow. Why anyone would build an entire industry on something that can be taken away by the govt in a heartbeat blows my mind. Wind and solar - same example.

The attitudes are so lazy anymore. Great grandpa used to grow many things to be profitable so that he was not only insulated from market swings, but the govt as well. We need more old school like that v. this post-FDR subsidy thinking that passes for farming today.
When the tobacco was harvested, clover was sown. The tobacco stalks were tilled back into the soil. The clover was plowed under when it got old enough. Crops were rotated to benefit the soil. Tomatoes were grown alongside the tobacco, partly to indicate any mosaic virus, but to provide something to keep us out of trouble in the few weeks the tobacco was ripening, and to bring in extra money. Where we were, we crabbed and fished for food and profit, too. One uncle raised hogs, a great uncle raised cattle and sheep. Feed corn fields were rotated with hay fields and pasture. It's how a family can farm on the same land for over 300 years without destroying the land or relying on a lot of chemicals.   
Even the garden plot was moved, just the orchard stayed put.
Just not the same thing nowadays.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis